Serious PC thread

[Kieran]

At this point I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry. And to think this is happening under a Conservative government. FFS...

NHS urged to use term 'chestfeeding' to make services more inclusive

EXCLUSIVE: A Department of Health-funded report on how to improve maternity services for trans people says NHS should ditch language like breastfeeding and instead use chestfeeding.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I don’t think of the UK Conservative party as being strictly speaking “conservative…”

 

[Kieran]

^It gets worse. My sister was telling me that a friend of hers had a baby and when her husband asked the nurse whether it was a boy or girl, he was told that it was an inappropriate question and that it was up to them (mother and father) to define the sex of the child This actually happened. In the last few weeks. I shit you not.. You guys might think you're leading the woke charge but I think it's totally unrestrained here right now. It's madness

They should have replied….”but we’re neither of us biologists!”

It’s silly, it’s foolish, it’s opposed to science and reason, but it’s prevalent now, though I imagine that only a tiny amount of a minuscule number of people believe in it…

 

[Federberg]

A mate of mine keeps sending me this stuff. Enjoy!

Police force issues new list of 37 sexual identities and genders

Norfolk Constabulary's document listing 37 different gender terms, 'The + in LGBT', explains current terminology alongside a picture of a 'gender bread person' - a play on gingerbread man.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[tented]

A mate of mine keeps sending me this stuff. Enjoy!

Police force issues new list of 37 sexual identities and genders

Norfolk Constabulary's document listing 37 different gender terms, 'The + in LGBT', explains current terminology alongside a picture of a 'gender bread person' - a play on gingerbread man.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I’m a panpolybiandrogynodemigreyvariheterohomofluidsexual from Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.

(For @britbox)

 

[Horsa]

I’m a panpolybiandrogynodemigreyvariheterohomofluidsexual from Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.

(For @britbox)

Hmm! Now, you have scared me away. Lol. I'm just too dopey to be here. (I don't understand you.) I know that long Welsh name is the longest place name in Wales.

 

[Kieran]

I’m a panpolybiandrogynodemigreyvariheterohomofluidsexual from Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.

(For @britbox)

My missus thinks I’m panoramic sex because my head swivels in all directions looking at women when I’m in Rome

 

[Federberg]

 

[Moxie]

I find Megyn Kelly a bit problematic, and she and the guest like to insist what the "left" would have to say. (While clearly neither is from the "left." I dislike folks putting words in others' mouths.) I find this NYTimes piece to be interesting, which is longer, and, while it has many similar points to make, it does so rather more fairly and more in-depth. But I know a lot of people won't be able to get behind the paywall.

I'm extracting this bit, because it is a quote from Martina, and this is a tennis board:

Some trans activists try to silence critics, whom they derisively call TERFs, which stands for trans-exclusionary radical feminists. A spokeswoman for a gay rights group urged a reporter not to “platform” — that is not to quote — those she said held objectionable views, including Martina Navratilova, the retired tennis legend, a champion of liberal and lesbian causes. Ms. Navratilova argues that transgender female athletes possess insurmountable biological advantages.
“So I’m a ‘TERF’ — OK, that’s the way you want to go?” Ms. Navratilova said in response. “I played against taller women, I played against stronger women, and I beat them all. But if I faced the male equivalent of Lia in tennis, that’s biology. I would have had no shot. And I would have been livid.”

Martina has all the feminist and LGBTQ cred you could want, plus she's played her sport at the highest level. I love how she dusts anyone off who would call her a TERF.

I have said before and will say again...if you decide to transition, like all forks in the road, you choose against some things, and I think trans athletes, particularly trans male to female, should have to give up sports. There's a Gay Games, and there can be trans Competitions. For anyone who might think that Ms. Thomas has chosen this path for athletic glory, I would never agree with this. But everyone can understand why a person born male would have an advantage, particularly, but not exclusively in swimming. It's a very upper-body sport.

 

[Jelenafan]

I find Megyn Kelly a bit problematic, and she and the guest like to insist what the "left" would have to say. (While clearly neither is from the "left." I dislike folks putting words in others' mouths.) I find this NYTimes piece to be interesting, which is longer, and, while it has many similar points to make, it does so rather more fairly and more in-depth. But I know a lot of people won't be able to get behind the paywall.

I'm extracting this bit, because it is a quote from Martina, and this is a tennis board:

Some trans activists try to silence critics, whom they derisively call TERFs, which stands for trans-exclusionary radical feminists. A spokeswoman for a gay rights group urged a reporter not to “platform” — that is not to quote — those she said held objectionable views, including Martina Navratilova, the retired tennis legend, a champion of liberal and lesbian causes. Ms. Navratilova argues that transgender female athletes possess insurmountable biological advantages.
“So I’m a ‘TERF’ — OK, that’s the way you want to go?” Ms. Navratilova said in response. “I played against taller women, I played against stronger women, and I beat them all. But if I faced the male equivalent of Lia in tennis, that’s biology. I would have had no shot. And I would have been livid.”

Martina has all the feminist and LGBTQ cred you could want, plus she's played her sport at the highest level. I love how she dusts anyone off who would call her a TERF.

I have said before and will say again...if you decide to transition, like all forks in the road, you choose against some things, and I think trans athletes, particularly trans male to female, should have to give up sports. There's a Gay Games, and there can be trans Competitions. For anyone who might think that Ms. Thomas has chosen this path for athletic glory, I would never agree with this. But everyone can understand why a person born male would have an advantage, particularly, but not exclusively in swimming. It's a very upper-body sport.

What bothers me personally is the disingenuous skirting of the central issue, does an individual born biologically male have a physical advantage ( wider pelvis, more muscle tone, bone density, etc) in a swimming competition with swimmers that were born biologically female. The data is overwhelmingly a “yes” response.

When prompted, the swimmer Lia Thomas response essentially stated the her goal was being her best actual realized self, she was not transitioning to gain a physical edge in competition. Ok, but it’s irrelevant what her intention was. Either she has an unfair biological advantage that goes beyond training and technique or she doesn’t. This type of intellectual dishonesty drives me crazy.

Now connecting this to tennis, The pioneering transgender WTA player Renee Richards, (at one point was later Martina N’s coach) back in the 70’s sued to be allowed to play on the WTA tour and played in her 40’s and did quite well, being a top 25 player. she started about age 42 IIRC.

Looking back at her initial stance, Renee is now of the mindset that being born biologically male gave her an extra edge and said that a early twenties individual transitioning (from M to F) would definitely would have an unfair advantage.

 

[Moxie]

What bothers me personally is the disingenuous skirting of the central issue, does an individual born biologically male have a physical advantage ( wider pelvis, more muscle tone, bone density, etc) in a swimming competition with swimmers that were born biologically female. The data is overwhelmingly a “yes” response.

When prompted, the swimmer Lia Thomas response essentially stated the her goal was being her best actual realized self, she was not transitioning to gain a physical edge in competition. Ok, but it’s irrelevant what her intention was. Either she has an unfair biological advantage that goes beyond training and technique or she doesn’t. This type of intellectual dishonesty drives me crazy.

Now connecting this to tennis, The pioneering transgender WTA player Renee Richards, (at one point was later Martina N’s coach) back in the 70’s sued to be allowed to play on the WTA tour and played in her 40’s and did quite well, being a top 25 player. she started about age 42 IIRC.

Looking back at her initial stance, Renee is now of the mindset that being born biologically male gave her an extra edge and said that a early twenties individual transitioning (from M to F) would definitely would have an unfair advantage.

Renee Richards, as you say, transitioned later in life, and was basically never more than a mediocre tennis player. I believe you are right that she cops to the advantage.

 

[Federberg]

The whole world has gone mad in my view. I'm sorry but if you were born male, you can snip your junk off and grow some tits, I'm not calling you a woman. I'm not looking at you as a woman. If you insist, I won't refer to you as male, but you are NOT a woman, no matter what you say. What the hell is going on?? I just don't get it. Those who try to impose this new orthodoxy on others seem to be even worse than I imagined based on this video clip. They are literally stealing the dreams of young women. It's just so bizarre to me.

What's next? A white person decides to permanently wear blackface and their faux racial struggle has to be recognised? Where does it stop? Seriously? It's not even the activists that bother me. It's governments. In the UK there have been cases of rape in women's prisons by trans-women. And one case of a female prisoner being consensually impregnated. The fact that the State has bought this horse shit is absolutely stunning to me. I keep hoping I'll wake up and find that it's just a grand joke

 

[tented]

What's next? A white person decides to permanently wear blackface and their faux racial struggle has to be recognised?

That’s an interesting analogy I’d never considered. If I — a white man — were to get my skin tattooed black, would I then be a black man? While technically I would have black skin, I wouldn’t have had the experiences of someone born and raised black, so no, I wouldn’t be a black man.

 

[Federberg]

That’s an interesting analogy I’d never considered. If I — a white man — were to get my skin tattooed black, would I then be a black man? While technically I would have black skin, I wouldn’t have had the experiences of someone born and raised black, so no, I wouldn’t be a black man.

Exactly. In what world does snipping your junk off make a man a woman? One might want to be but want and being are entirely different and I don’t get why we should coddle the delusion

 

[Moxie]

Exactly. In what world does snipping your junk off make a man a woman? One might want to be but want and being are entirely different and I don’t get why we should coddle the delusion

Still, you did write "snip your junk off" in two different posts, (which is surely a crude enough expression to have borne saying only once, if it ever needed writing at all,) and I do think there is an outsized preoccupation with trans-women on this thread. I don't see the same problem with trans-men around these parts.

 

[Federberg]

^ Lol! I’m a man so the idea of losing my bits is both horrifying and incomprehensible to me. A trans-man doesn’t present the same potential for threat that a trans-woman does. Nor do they have the capability to surpass the sporting abilities of male athletes. I for one would like to hear of a trans-man trying to compete in mens sport. And of course heterosexual men loathe the idea of mistaking a trans woman for a real woman. The idea that these activists are now trying to force us to see these folks as “women” is infuriating

 

[Federberg]

fook me.....

 

[Kieran]

Some of the clips from this film are chilling. I know, there’s some who’ll dismiss it by saying, oh that’s the Daily Wire, and right wing, it’s not the guardian, and left wing, so it’s not reliable, but unfortunately it is, and the most chilling parts come straight out of the interviewees own mouths, under questioning. They have the twinkly clear surety and condescending attitude of cultists who have never once challenged their own world view, who consider queries about their ruinous adventure to be not only ignorant and pointless, but they’re genuinely shocked and offended that their “good intentions” are actually considered to be deranged - which they are. And of course, when stuck for a reply, they end the interview.

Incredible how difficult some people are finding it to answer the question: what is a woman? And incredible the lengths they go to, to avoid it…

fook me.....

 

[Kieran]

That’s an interesting analogy I’d never considered. If I — a white man — were to get my skin tattooed black, would I then be a black man? While technically I would have black skin, I wouldn’t have had the experiences of someone born and raised black, so no, I wouldn’t be a black man.

This is kinda the Rachel Dolezal scenario taken to extremes. Remember the “black” NAACP activist who was eventually exposed as actually being white? In a very awkward and humiliating interview, she was shown photos of her parents. She has her defenders, she has her opponents. What it comes down to is, can the fact that someone “identifies as” something different to their biological or ethnic reality overcome the science, and genetic history of that person? And if it can, if science can be cast aside in this way, so that observable and undeniable reality are not only denied and become verboten, become irrelevant, trumped by what a person internally feels, then truth has now become wholly subjective, and therefore untruthful.

If a lunatic points at the moon and says, “look at the big block of cheese,” we don’t help the lunatic by agreeing with them and attacking anyone who says, “actually you’re wrong, that’s not a block of cheese.” We help nobody by doing this - and yet this is what we’re doing.

If I identify as something, it sort of already implies that I’m not that something. I don’t identify as a man: I am a man. No qualifiers necessary…

 

[Moxie]

^ Lol! I’m a man so the idea of losing my bits is both horrifying and incomprehensible to me. A trans-man doesn’t present the same potential for threat that a trans-woman does. Nor do they have the capability to surpass the sporting abilities of male athletes. I for one would like to hear of a trans-man trying to compete in mens sport. And of course heterosexual men loathe the idea of mistaking a trans woman for a real woman. The idea that these activists are now trying to force us to see these folks as “women” is infuriating

I appreciate your copping to all that. Surely we've talked about this one enough now, I would have thought.

 

[Federberg]

I appreciate your copping to all that. Surely we've talked about this one enough now, I would have thought.

If I get sent things that are pertinent to this thread, there's nothing wrong with posting it for others to see. I for one don't think this is a settled issue. Quite the opposite. Frankly I would like to see reversals from this madness