Rogers Cup SF - Djokovic v. Nadal

[DarthFed]

RE: Roger's Cup SF - Djokovic v. Nadal

I think this match could have gone either way. I do not think any conclusions can be drawn from the outcome of this match. But I have to say that Djokovic was generous today.

It's optimistic view. It didn't go either way, it went to the guy who was way tougher in the big moments throughout. A common thing we've seen with Djokovic this year. Conclusions can be drawn regarding Djokovic...he is in another major funk.

True, it went to the guy who played better overall, but given the margins, I think Nole the match could have gone either way. It has been like that between these two in the past few years. I do not remember well how Nadal fans reacted when Djokovic won at Monte Carlo, but I do remember some people were saying that Djokovic was going to win RG because he had beaten Nadal at Monte Carlo.

The past 2 years before RG these 2 were only involved in 3 really close battles, all on slow-medium HC's. It's not like every match is a decisive TB.

Novak almost did win RG and it was in part due to the belief gathered at Monte Carlo. If Nole had lost that match then a match at RG would have been easier for Rafa. Same deal here, if Nole beats Rafa while playing sub par then we wouldn't give much hope to Rafa in a match at New York. Tennis is very much about momentum, confidence, etc.

 

[the AntiPusher]

RE: Roger's Cup SF - Djokovic v. Nadal

I think this match could have gone either way. I do not think any conclusions can be drawn from the outcome of this match. But I have to say that Djokovic was generous today.

Surely it could have gone either way. It went to a 3rd set TB. But given how heavily favored Djokovic was, and how aggressively and differently Nadal played him, don't you think conclusions can, actually be drawn?

Djokovic double-faulted on break points twice I think. And he missed forehands with an open court a number of times as well, which has little to do with Rafa's aggressive play. Rafa played aggressive, and did serve well at some crucial points, but I still think that Djokovic gave away points with many shanked forehands.

I think you're right. And we've all mentioned that the match could have gone either way. However, Rafa did make an aggressive attempt at changing the dynamic in their H2H on HCs. And it worked out for him.

Yes, Rafa was less passive today, and executed well, but you noticed that he struggled a bit in the second set, and it began to look like deja vu. That is true, in the same way that Nole beat Nadal in Monte Carlo earlier this year, and they will still meet more times. As we all know, Nole is also more than capable of beating Nadal on clay and change the dynamics on clay.

Rafa was less passive today, and executed well, but you noticed that he struggled a bit in the second set, and it began to look like deja vu

Truthfully, Rafa didn't struggle in the 2nd set but it was some brilliant play and adjustments by the world's #1 who at times is an offensive minded monster from the baseline. When he is playing like that only a player the caliber of Murray or Federer has the change of pace variety in their game to force errors from him. Rafa served very well today and was in attack mode for most of the match especially during the big points. However, Rafa was passive(I think it was due to nervous tension) during small match intervals when he was slicing the ball into the center of the court.. This doesn't work against Djoker who eats slice balls like Pacman consuming energy pills. Rafa bh slice down the line to djoker's backhand was a good tactic because it stayed low and penetrated to the deep part of the baseline.

 

[ClayDeath]

RE: Roger's Cup SF - Djokovic v. Nadal

nole is 11-6 against nadal on the hard courts. and majority of those wins were beatdowns.


so we will take this win. it is a pleasant surprise.

right about the time andy has nole on the run, now clay warrior introduces a little bit of doubt as well.


also I hear roger is back. he is healthy and raring to go in cincy.

 

[Riotbeard]

RE: Roger's Cup SF - Djokovic v. Nadal

Just got home, I don't know what to say... I did not think nadal would be at this level yet... but I knew we couldn't count him out. Let's hope novak get's the masters slam next week...

 

[Didi]

RE: Roger's Cup SF - Djokovic v. Nadal

On a sidenote, as for Nadal skipping Cincinnati, I'm not sure about it. I agree that a final appearance in Montreal including a win over Djokovic should be more than enough preperation for NYC and that the Cincy hardcourt is probably the worst for Nadal's game. But on the other hand with the #1 spot being a big long term goal, keep in mind there is at the very least 90 points up for grabs if he beats the qualifier he's scheduled to play against in his opener. Next opponent would be one of Almagro/Dimitrov/Baker/Istomin, so even 180p seem realistic. Then he would face Roger in the quarterfinals and we all know what that means. What I'm trying to say is there is a realistic range from 180 - 360 points for him up for grabs. Who knows, it might come down to these 180 or 360 points for the year end #1 or for the top spot after the AO 2014. Call me silly but I wouldn't be surprised if he travels to Cincinnati to pick up as many points as possible and just give it a try. After all he's had a break of 6 weeks since Wimbledon. A few matches in Ohio won't hurt him.

 

[DarthFed]

RE: Roger's Cup SF - Djokovic v. Nadal

I doubt it Didi. If Rafa didn't have to go through Nole and could avoid a very long match he might have played Cincy. No need to jeopardize his chances at USO for a better chance at year end #1. Rafa is definitely getting back to #1 by the end of next AO at the very latest. I think he is already late enough in his career to see year end #1 as nice but not that big of a goal in the long run.

 

[DarthFed]

RE: Roger's Cup SF - Djokovic v. Nadal

Just got home, I don't know what to say... I did not think nadal would be at this level yet... but I knew we couldn't count him out. Let's hope novak get's the masters slam next week...

If you didn't see the match you should be more concerned about Nole's level at this point.

 

[lindseywagners]

RE: Roger's Cup SF - Djokovic v. Nadal

Regarding Nadal:

"Yeah, he's good. Yeah. ... So good." - Bradley Cooper and Christian Bale, "American Hustle" trailer

 

[Riotbeard]

RE: Roger's Cup SF - Djokovic v. Nadal

Just got home, I don't know what to say... I did not think nadal would be at this level yet... but I knew we couldn't count him out. Let's hope novak get's the masters slam next week...

If you didn't see the match you should be more concerned about Nole's level at this point.

Really? Should I go back and watch the repeat just to get a sense of novak's level or is it too painful?

 

[ClayDeath]

RE: Roger's Cup SF - Djokovic v. Nadal

it was a pleasant surprise general riotbeard.

 

[DarthFed]

RE: Roger's Cup SF - Djokovic v. Nadal

Just got home, I don't know what to say... I did not think nadal would be at this level yet... but I knew we couldn't count him out. Let's hope novak get's the masters slam next week...

If you didn't see the match you should be more concerned about Nole's level at this point.

Really? Should I go back and watch the repeat just to get a sense of novak's level or is it too painful?

It was a really poor 1st set in particular. Double faulted on break point twice. I think Nole's play from 3-3 in the 2nd set until 3-3 in the 3rd set was good. Nadal did really well to match him at the beginning of the 3rd and I had the sense he'd win it in the end. After that point Nole didn't threaten Nadal's serve in the 3rd set and the tiebreak was plain ugly. All around a pretty poor match mentally for him IMO.

 

[Riotbeard]

RE: Roger's Cup SF - Djokovic v. Nadal

Just got home, I don't know what to say... I did not think nadal would be at this level yet... but I knew we couldn't count him out. Let's hope novak get's the masters slam next week...

If you didn't see the match you should be more concerned about Nole's level at this point.

Really? Should I go back and watch the repeat just to get a sense of novak's level or is it too painful?

It was a really poor 1st set in particular. Double faulted on break point twice. I think Nole's play from 3-3 in the 2nd set until 3-3 in the 3rd set was good. Nadal did really well to match him at the beginning of the 3rd and I had the sense he'd win it in the end. After that point Nole didn't threaten Nadal's serve in the 3rd set and the tiebreak was plain ugly. All around a pretty poor match mentally for him IMO.

I saw the worst of it then. I watched a good chunk of the first set. That set looked hopeless when I left.

 

[ClayDeath]

RE: Roger's Cup SF - Djokovic v. Nadal

nole had a better tiebreak record for the year than the clay warrior.


glad clay warrior held his nerve and focused on the win in the breaker.


if anybody can come back from that deficit in the breaker, it is nole.

 

[DarthFed]

RE: Roger's Cup SF - Djokovic v. Nadal

Nole's decisive set record this year is 6-5. That is horrid and far more telling than the tiebreak record.

 

[ClayDeath]

RE: Roger's Cup SF - Djokovic v. Nadal

but not against nadal:


he still leads 11-6 against nadal on the hard courts.


as I suggested, many of those wins were total beatdowns.


nadal was not the favorite in this match.

 

[DarthFed]

RE: Roger's Cup SF - Djokovic v. Nadal

Just got home, I don't know what to say... I did not think nadal would be at this level yet... but I knew we couldn't count him out. Let's hope novak get's the masters slam next week...

If you didn't see the match you should be more concerned about Nole's level at this point.

Really? Should I go back and watch the repeat just to get a sense of novak's level or is it too painful?

It was a really poor 1st set in particular. Double faulted on break point twice. I think Nole's play from 3-3 in the 2nd set until 3-3 in the 3rd set was good. Nadal did really well to match him at the beginning of the 3rd and I had the sense he'd win it in the end. After that point Nole didn't threaten Nadal's serve in the 3rd set and the tiebreak was plain ugly. All around a pretty poor match mentally for him IMO.

I saw the worst of it then. I watched a good chunk of the first set. That set looked hopeless when I left.

That was definitely the worst of it. Rafa had a good chance to pull ahead in the 2nd but his level dropped and then Nole finally stepped up for a handful of games. Just up and down play from Nole, all in all he wasn't that bad in the 3rd set until it mattered most.

 

[DarthFed]

RE: Roger's Cup SF - Djokovic v. Nadal

but not against nadal:


he still leads 11-6 against nadal on the hard courts.


as I suggested, many of those wins were total beatdowns.


nadal was not the favorite in this match.

Numbers only mean so much. Look at trends...those show that Nole is getting rattled easily in the big matches against elite players. Since 2012 AO, Nole is 2-5 in GS vs. the other members of the big 3, and his overall record has to be below .500. And one of them is 5 years past his prime and another one is in and out of the game with knee issues. That's a bad trend for Nole.

I thought Nole would come out focused and win in straights, if you told me it'd get to a 3rd set tiebreak I'd bet the house on Nadal without knowing any other details of the match. Trends my friend.

 

[zalvar]

RE: Roger's Cup SF - Djokovic v. Nadal

but not against nadal:


he still leads 11-6 against nadal on the hard courts.


as I suggested, many of those wins were total beatdowns.


nadal was not the favorite in this match.

Numbers only mean so much. Look at trends...those show that Nole is getting rattled easily in the big matches against elite players. Since 2012 AO, Nole is 2-5 in GS vs. the other members of the big 3, and his overall record has to be below .500. And one of them is 5 years past his prime and another one is in and out of the game with knee issues. That's a bad trend for Nole.

I thought Nole would come out focused and win in straights, if you told me it'd get to a 3rd set tiebreak I'd bet the house on Nadal without knowing any other details of the match. Trends my friend.

I'm so glad Rafa made the adjustments that he needed to make. It was so important to give Nole a different look today. It's so impressive, really, how Rafa can change the way he plays from surface to surface. Hopefully, he'll carry this aggressive returning mindset throughout the US Open. Love the whole big 4 dynamic. Who will get two slams this year!? Or maybe Fed will surprise us. :blush:

 

[Moxie]

RE: Roger's Cup SF - Djokovic v. Nadal

but not against nadal:


he still leads 11-6 against nadal on the hard courts.


as I suggested, many of those wins were total beatdowns.


nadal was not the favorite in this match.

Numbers only mean so much. Look at trends...those show that Nole is getting rattled easily in the big matches against elite players. Since 2012 AO, Nole is 2-5 in GS vs. the other members of the big 3, and his overall record has to be below .500. And one of them is 5 years past his prime and another one is in and out of the game with knee issues. That's a bad trend for Nole.

I thought Nole would come out focused and win in straights, if you told me it'd get to a 3rd set tiebreak I'd bet the house on Nadal without knowing any other details of the match. Trends my friend.

I'm so glad Rafa made the adjustments that he needed to make. It was so important to give Nole a different look today. It's so impressive, really, how Rafa can change the way he plays from surface to surface. Hopefully, he'll carry this aggressive returning mindset throughout the US Open. Love the whole big 4 dynamic. Who will get two slams this year!? Or maybe Fed will surprise us. :blush:

Good points, Zalvar, and thanks for being my valiant friend on the Chat Threat. Vamos para mañana!

 

[rafanoy1992]

RE: Roger's Cup SF - Djokovic v. Nadal

but not against nadal:


he still leads 11-6 against nadal on the hard courts.


as I suggested, many of those wins were total beatdowns.


nadal was not the favorite in this match.

Numbers only mean so much. Look at trends...those show that Nole is getting rattled easily in the big matches against elite players. Since 2012 AO, Nole is 2-5 in GS vs. the other members of the big 3, and his overall record has to be below .500. And one of them is 5 years past his prime and another one is in and out of the game with knee issues. That's a bad trend for Nole.

I thought Nole would come out focused and win in straights, if you told me it'd get to a 3rd set tiebreak I'd bet the house on Nadal without knowing any other details of the match. Trends my friend.

I'm so glad Rafa made the adjustments that he needed to make. It was so important to give Nole a different look today. It's so impressive, really, how Rafa can change the way he plays from surface to surface. Hopefully, he'll carry this aggressive returning mindset throughout the US Open. Love the whole big 4 dynamic. Who will get two slams this year!? Or maybe Fed will surprise us. :blush:

Don't forget Del Potro too. Other than the controversial match he had against Raonic, he is showing some fine form going into the US Open.