Novak Djokovic's Vaccine Stance & Visa Troubles

MargaretMcAleer

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I'm sure choosing medical over law is to take a cut. I would hope they wouldn't stuff it up on purpose, but they really are just nattering on about public health, when the defense has done a decent job of destroying that case. Either they can make theirs, better than they have, or they are going to lose.
I am glad I took the medical road,it is not about the money,I have had great rewards doing what I do.
Lets see what the defence presents after the lunch break.
I would like the judge to ask why did Novak get a medical exemption on what grounds for starters? and why did he miss the date line on the 10th December as well.,to apply for the medical exemption.
 
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Sundaymorningguy

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I mean if you are Australia, you also argue the difference between now and then is the vaccine wasn’t widely available to everyone January 2021 versus January 2022. I know I wasn’t eligible to get the vaccine here in the US until March because other people were deemed at greater risk.
 

MikeOne

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For anyone who spends 10 mins doing research, you will learn Morrison's government has been under fire for the handling of covid, for numerous reasons. Djokovic is the perfect target to create a villain they can use as face of anti-vaxxers to save face, to try and score political points.

Then you have the anti anti-vaxxers coming out and making him the face of the ant-vax movement

lastly, you have the federer and nadal fans coming out and cheering the possibility that novak will be stopped from getting to 21 at AO 21 not caring about how badly he is being treated, as human being. Question yourself, are you a nice person?

It's a perfect storm but shows lack of character, shows cowardice and truly shows the bad side of humanity.

If you break down this case on the facts. Djokovic is not an extreme anti-vaxxer for starters. His only stance is he doesn't believe he needs the vaccine but he has never tried to convince the public not to get vaccinated. To make him the face of the anti-tax movement, to have a villain to attack, is terribly wrong. Second, Djokovic has always been open and openly communicated with tennis organizers on the matter. After weeks and maybe months of back and forth, the Victorian state government and tennis australia cleared him to come and gave him one exemption. How that was done without consulation with federal authorities or at odds with federal regulations is beyond me. Djokovic didn't deliberately try to evade or trick anyone... Then he comes in and is denied on the basis of not having a valid exemption. A court overturned this on administrative grounds, meaning government didn't act appropriately in following due process.

Then, INEXPLICABLY, Alex Hawke cancels the visa again for what seems to be outrageous reasoning - that Djokovic is a threat to stability, a danger to Australian public and that due to him being a high profile public person, he's more of a danger. Alex Hawke didn't even argue the medical exemption was invalid (the original reason for cancelling Novak's visa) and didn't even bring up visa application errors (which isn't enforced all too often). Why didn't he? Clearly, he didn't think he had strong grounds to do so and everyone here thought these were just reasons to deport Novak.

Novak's lawyers were probably stunned with this argument and have strongly counter-argued. First they argued that how can Alex Hawke know that deporting Novak would be safer than keeping him? There could be unrest by deporting him and the public gatherings of protestors endanger people too, covid can spread more easily. They also argued that Djokobic has played several slams since covid started and never has he been some sort of 'public' threat. They have also argued that alex hawke was basing things Novak said two years ago but not caring about Novak's positions today, lawyers stated that Novak may not think he needs the vaccines but has never told others not to get vaccinated. They have also pointed to no evidence that Djokovic has been guilty of leading anti-vaxers or spreading anti-vax sentiment.... The lawyers did a very good job poking holes here. Judges may still be under tremendous pressure to agree to deportation given 80% of australia supports it and Alex Hawke has their support. The argument though, seems horrible. I worry judges may just succumb to the pressures and political climate.

The reality is this is all political. Djokovic has done nothing to deserve this kind of treatment but he finds himself in a country where covid has dealt blows to the government, a world where people want to create anti-vax villains to attack and make an example of and then, many in tennis do not want him to get the records.

The fact that Nick Kyrgios, an Australian who understand australia and a former anti-joker is now blasting the media, the government and defending Djokovic says a lot. He knows what's going on here, and he himself has been cast as a villain before so he knows how that feels.

I think people should be ashamed of themselves for the way they have treated Novak this unfairly and for trying to make him the face of anti-vax movement, someone who presents a threat to the public. It's shameful and pathetic.
 
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MargaretMcAleer

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Dont you love people that critize another country and have never been in Australia?
People in glass houses just love to throw stones.
I have not seen my daughter for 3 years because of this pandemic she lives in London
I now can go but I Have To Follow The Rules of their government to get in?
Get double vaccinated for starters?
 

MikeOne

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Margaret, Maybe your prime minister or country should've done a better job? Why the mess over there?

and maybe your country needs to sort our their internal incompetence before you try to find scapegoats like Djokovic. Tennis Australia and Victorian Government should be the villains here and on trial, why not? So they publicly announce Djokovic has been given an exemption to come into australia and participate in the tournament after a 'rigorous' review by medical experts. How was this done? Your authorities in your country don't speak to each other? heck, they are all inside your country yet they put Djokovic is this terrible position by basically being incompetent. There should be review of how tennis australia, victorian governement can, using the logic of the federal government, 'ENDANGER' australia by providing exemptions to people to enter the country, in violation or federal regulations. I want an investigation and i want all those authorities to be villains here, why is it Djokobic? He was open all along, everyone knew he wasn't vaccinated, he was told by none other than tennis australia and victorian government he was cleared to fly in and play.

But again, your country is looking for scapegoat and an international person to deflect from your failures, which you are well aware of. They found the perfect one. I guarantee you the government planned this, they knew djokovic was given an exemption (of course they did, it was public) and probably gleefully planned to make him the face of ant-vaxxers, make his life miserable, humiliate him and all to save face, have the world see how australia got tough on an anti-vaxxer as to compensate for the failures of handling covid. Now your politicians can deflect from their failures and just talk about how they made an example of the bad person, Novak Djokovic, who they now dub public enemy #1, a public threat. DISGRACE

It's remarkable how bad people can be, in pursuit of self-interests
 
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MargaretMcAleer

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Margaret, Maybe your prime minister or country should've done a better job? Why the mess over there?

and maybe your country needs to sort our their internal incompetence before you try to find scapegoats like Djokovic. Tennis Australia and Victorian Government should be the villains here and on trial, why not? So they publicly announce Djokovic has been given an exemption to come into australia and participate in the tournament after a 'rigorous' review by medical experts. How was this done? Your authorities in your country don't speak to each other? heck, they are all inside your country yet they put Djokovic is this terrible position by basically being incompetent. There should be review of how tennis australia, victorian governement can, using the logic of the federal government, 'ENDANGER' australia by providing exemptions to people to enter the country, in violation or federal regulations. I want an investigation and i want all those authorities to be villains here, why is it Djokobic? He was open all along, everyone knew he wasn't vaccinated, he was told by none other than tennis australia and victorian government he was cleared to fly in and play.

But again, your country is looking for scapegoat and an international person to deflect from your failures, which you are well aware of. They found the perfect one. I guarantee you the government planned this, they knew djokovic was given an exemption (of course they did, it was public) and probably gleefully planned to make him the face of ant-vaxxers, make his life miserable, humiliate him and all to save face, have the world see how australia got tough on an anti-vaxxer as to compensate for the failures of handling covid.

It's remarkable how bad people can be, in pursuit of self-interests
We have not got a mess.The rules are very clear.If Novak got vaccinated we would not be discussing this.
I agree Craig Tiley and the health minister have a lot to answer for,they ignored the 2 letters our Federal Health Minister Greg Hunt sent to them last November.It clearly stated 'people that have had COVID within six months,is not a valid reason to get a medical exemption.
I strongly suggest Tiley's contract get looked at after the AO is over.
 

Sundaymorningguy

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Margaret, Maybe your prime minister or country should've done a better job? Why the mess over there?

and maybe your country needs to sort our their internal incompetence before you try to find scapegoats like Djokovic. Tennis Australia and Victorian Government should be the villains here and on trial, why not? So they publicly announce Djokovic has been given an exemption to come into australia and participate in the tournament after a 'rigorous' review by medical experts. How was this done? Your authorities in your country don't speak to each other? heck, they are all inside your country yet they put Djokovic is this terrible position by basically being incompetent. There should be review of how tennis australia, victorian governement can, using the logic of the federal government, 'ENDANGER' australia by providing exemptions to people to enter the country, in violation or federal regulations. I want an investigation and i want all those authorities to be villains here, why is it Djokobic? He was open all along, everyone knew he wasn't vaccinated, he was told by none other than tennis australia and victorian government he was cleared to fly in and play.

But again, your country is looking for scapegoat and an international person to deflect from your failures, which you are well aware of. They found the perfect one. I guarantee you the government planned this, they knew djokovic was given an exemption (of course they did, it was public) and probably gleefully planned to make him the face of ant-vaxxers, make his life miserable, humiliate him and all to save face, have the world see how australia got tough on an anti-vaxxer as to compensate for the failures of handling covid. Now your politicians can deflect from their failures and just talk about how they made an example of the bad person, Novak Djokovic, who they now dub public enemy #1, a public threat. DISGRACE

It's remarkable how bad people can be, in pursuit of self-interests
The issue I take with this is so many people in this thread have acknowledged how awful Tennis Australia and Victoria have been, but we also acknowledge Djokovic has been awful too. Tennis Australia and State of Victoria government are villains, and many firings are coming. All of your posts are but Djokovic doesn’t deserve this. He does. He’s a liar. None of us have said we don’t want to see Craig Tiley, Tennis Australia, and Victorian officials to be punished for not following Federal government policies. They will be.
 

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:facepalm: OMG, the nattering on about anti-vax sentiments. You are never going to win on this ground! Did no one speak to you at lunch?! You are running down a losing path. Talk about his visa, you git.
 

MargaretMcAleer

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Stephen open your ears and listened to what my fav SC who loves prose,Chris Tran would have said at lunch break
Maybe Stephen has indigestion.
 

MargaretMcAleer

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:facepalm: OMG, the nattering on about anti-vax sentiments. You are never going to win on this ground! Did no one speak to you at lunch?! You are running down a losing path. Talk about his visa, you git.
Lets use Chris Tran he will make the judges sit up and take notice with his love of prose....
 

Moxie

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Every moment I keep hoping he'll talk about paperwork, and yet he won't. He keeps apologizing, essentially, for the fact that the minister didn't ask ND what his views were on vaccination. That he had the opportunity to, but didn't. He insists that the minister didn't have to, but he's losing the case on this.
 

the AntiPusher

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The issue I take with this is so many people in this thread have acknowledged how awful Tennis Australia and Victoria have been, but we also acknowledge Djokovic has been awful too. Tennis Australia and State of Victoria government are villains, and many firings are coming. All of your posts are but Djokovic doesn’t deserve this. He does. He’s a liar. None of us have said we don’t want to see Craig Tiley, Tennis Australia, and Victorian officials to be punished for not following Federal government policies. They will be.
Novak is lucky this is the Australian government. Can you imagine if it was China or the Russian government? This case would have been over if Novak and his team was interacting with true transparency. His lies makes him look complicit. That’s on him and he has to own it. If anything, this will teach him a lesson and hopefully is the beginning of Novak’s maturation process. Unfortunately, this has happened on the world’s stage. He will eventually be aight.
 

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It's like someone is invited to your house, then you change your mind and ask them politely to leave because there was a misunderstanding, but the visitor insists by saying "NO you invited me so I have the right to stay and I am refusing to leave." Djokovic is pathetic and an embarrassment. :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
 
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MikeOne

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We have not got a mess.The rules are very clear.If Novak got vaccinated we would not be discussing this.
I agree Craig Tiley and the health minister have a lot to answer for,they ignored the 2 letters our Federal Health Minister Greg Hunt sent to them last November.It clearly stated 'people that have had COVID within six months,is not a valid reason to get a medical exemption.
I strongly suggest Tiley's contract get looked at after the AO is over.
but do you at least see Djokovic's side? He was always open, never hid his vaccination status, he applied for exemption and he got trapped in this mess where tennis australia, victorian government and federal government were at ODDS. You can blame Djoker all you want but its clear he didn't deliberately try to deceive anyone, he was open and honest with his vaccination status, granted an exemption.

What's really hard to believe is that the government is now not even making it about his medical exemption or visa application but if you saw/heard court hearings which just ended, was all about him being an anti-vaxxer and potentially spreading the message as a high profile athlete. WOW! So this is not about him entering country in violation of rules, as you all have been fiercely arguing, the government gave up on this! Now it's about him being an anti-vaxxer! and can't be allowed in the country because of this! WOW! WOW! WOW! Just cannot believe it!

His position has been the same for years and it hasn't created any dangers.... This is unreal!
 
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MargaretMcAleer

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but do you at least see Djokovic's side? He was always open, never hid is vaccination status, he applied for exemption and he got trapped in this mess where tennis australia, victorian government and federal government were at ODDS. You can blame Djoker all you want but its clear he didn't deliberately try to deceive anyone, he was open and honest with his vaccination status, granted an exemption.
Our rules are clear,Novak would not be in this position if he was double vaccinated.He blamed his team for giving a false declaration on his visa,he also said in hindsight when he tested positive,then 2 days later went out to a event mixing with kids? sorry I can't give him a pass on those incidents.If he was innocent there was no need for him to come out on his instagram post and say the things he did after the events? of course that puts suspension in anyone's eyes.I would feel or think the same if it was another tennis player.
The sad thing from all of this....tennis suffers...
 

MikeOne

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The issue I take with this is so many people in this thread have acknowledged how awful Tennis Australia and Victoria have been, but we also acknowledge Djokovic has been awful too. Tennis Australia and State of Victoria government are villains, and many firings are coming. All of your posts are but Djokovic doesn’t deserve this. He does. He’s a liar. None of us have said we don’t want to see Craig Tiley, Tennis Australia, and Victorian officials to be punished for not following Federal government policies. They will be.
What did Djokovic lie about? he was open and honest with Tennis australia and tennis australia and victorian government granted him the exemption. He never hid the fact he was unvaccinated.... when asked, he explained about when he got PCR test and admitted to conducting an interview at wrong time. His visa application, he explained, no evidence he lied as he claims was his team which checked the box. You have no evidence to support hie decieved or lied. This is irrelevant anyway..... to the actual case here - grounds to deport him.

but what invalidates your arguments even more is that it appears even the government gave up on the visa application errors and arguing this medical exemption was invalid. WHY?? This is what you and everyone here have been arguing were main reasons to deport him. Even the government must have given up on arguing these points as they saw a dead end.... so now they have changed the argument to having deport Djokobic on grounds that given he's an ant-vaxxer, he can spread the sentiment and endanger the public? As i was listening to the court hearings for past 30mins-1 hour it was all about Djokobic being an ant-vaxxer, i COULD NOT BELIEVE WHAT I WAS HEARING. The government completely abandoned trying to make case exemption was invalid or his visa app was grounds o deport him. BECAUSE THERE WAS NOTHING THERE! The government proved you all wrong and me right.

So now it's about him being an ant-vaxxer! that's it! OMG
 
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MikeOne

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Our rules are clear,Novak would not be in this position if he was double vaccinated.He blamed his team for giving a false declaration on his visa,he also said in hindsight when he tested positive,then 2 days later went out to a event mixing with kids? sorry I can't give him a pass on those incidents.If he was innocent there was no need for him to come out on his instagram post and say the things he did after the events? of course that puts suspension in anyone's eyes.I would feel or think the same if it was another tennis player.
The sad thing from all of this....tennis suffers...
THE GOVERNMENT even abandoned what you state are reasons to deport him. The government didn't think his visa application or medical exemption were even grounds o deport him and this is why they changed the argument to deporting him because he is an anti-vaxxer! Don't take it from me, your own government doesn't agree with your position regarding the medical exemption and visa application errors, quite clear from their arguments today! It's quite clear they must have concluded Djokovic's lawyers had enough to dismiss any grounds that exemption was invalid and his visa app errors were a big deal.

and the kids thing he clarified... he didn't know he was positive at time and he responsibly took an rapid test beforehand, can you provide evidence that's false? He did admit he as positive when he did 1 interview, not when he was with kids. But this is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT TO THE CASE, you all are grasping at straws.......
 

MargaretMcAleer

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What did Djokovic lie about? he was open and honest with Tennis australia and tennis australia and victorian government granted him the exemption. He never hid the fact he was unvaccinated.... when asked, he explained about when he got PCR test and admitted to conducting an interview at wrong time. His visa application, he explained, no evidence he lied as he claims was his team which checked the box. You have no evidence to support hie deceived or lied.

but what invalidates your arguments even more is that it appears even the government gave up on the visa application errors and arguing this medical exemption was invalid. WHY?? This is what you and everyone here have been arguing were main reasons to deport him. Even the government must have given up on arguing these points as they saw a dead end.... so now they have changed the argument to having deport Djokobic on grounds that given he's an ant-vaxxer, he can spread the sentiment and endanger the public? As i was listening to the court hearings for past 30mins-1 hour it was all about Djokobic being an ant-vaxxer, i COULD NOT BELIEVE WHAT I WAS HEARING. The government completely abandoned trying to make case exemption was invalid or his visa app was grounds o deport him. BECAUSE THERE WAS NOTHING THERE! The government proved you all wrong and me right.

So now it's about him being an ant-vaxxer! that's it! OMG
When you name appears on a declaration the Onus is on you,cant spin that off to your team
The Health orders in Serbia firmly states anyone who tests positive must self isolate for 14 days.Novak did not.
Novak does not believe in vaccines that is fact,he has a right to his opinion,though when you are travelling to another country you have to abide by their rules.Even our defence brought up the fact he went to a event after he tested positive.Goodness me they were photos of him wiithout a mask.Lets see what the judges rule as the case is now adjourned.