Novak Djokovic's Vaccine Stance & Visa Troubles

[MargaretMcAleer]

I slightly disagree with this, in that I think it just didn't occur to him that everyone didn't simply want what he wanted, which was for him to play the AO, and that he'd be fully embraced when he showed up. It was a massive misreading of the room, and likely will happen again, when his ban gets lifted...meaning he won't expect push-back, if he should get it. That comes from being surrounded by yes-men. I do think he cares more about his ambition that what Australians think of him, but I also think that it doesn't occur to him that people might be against him when his actions benefit his interests, but run counter to theirs.

I do agree that Novak wants to be loved, (I would say he has a rather neurotic need to be.) We'll see what happens if he gets his ban revoked and how people react to that. They might be fine, and over it, and just happy to watch the tennis. But it might feel like unfair treatment towards the privileged, and he may not get the welcome back he's expecting.

A small quibble with the second part of your statement, however. Novak was not standing by his principles when he went to Australia. He had refused to make any statement as to where he stood on the vaccine, or if he had taken it, prior to showing up in Australia, brandishing his exemption (invalid, as it turns out,) due to recent Covid. He was asked repeatedly where he stood, as soon as the AO announced they would require the vaccine for players. He consistently refused to answer, and got very tetchy about it, citing privacy issues. Which might be fine, except that he had started it, declaring early in the pandemic, and completely unbidden, that he would have to think hard about it if a vaccine were required to play on the tour. So, once it was, he got asked, and he acted surprised. IMO, he evaded the whole thing, sought to get in through a backdoor, even though every other player on the men's side was vaccinated. He only took a stand about it after the Australia debacle, and, IMO, at that point he HAD to act like it was a principled one. And it still only came about a month later. If it was such a principled position, he would have had something to say about it prior to the AO, IMO.

Take your point regarding ' standing by his principals' I should have made the point of his vaccine stance came only after the debacle in Australia. I remember his interview with the BBC reporter after the AO and he said he would not take the vaccine even if it meant him having not to play tournaments.

 

[Moxie]

The delusion's real w/ so many! Weak? Novak only made 9 finals, 1 > anyone else like Lendl who made all his in a row! How weak could he be if he's making all these finals from 2007-21? How many has Nadal made; 5? When was the last time Fed made a final; 2015? ND Weak? I think not!

9 Finals is nice for the stat sheet, but only 3 wins amongst them, for a HC specialist is pretty poor. Remember, it's sport, and the main thing is holding up the trophy.

It looked bleak for Nadal in NY w/ so many bad losses early on in his career! He never got to a final until 2011! He seemed tired after winning those FO's so it was understandable the doubt he'd ever win, but after all this time he's still no king of HC's that's for sure! That moniker belongs to Novak w/ 12 Major HC wins to Nadal's 6!

Sure, Rafa took some time to get his legs on HC in a bigger way. And he was often pretty beat up from front-loading his season by the time the USO rolled around. A lot of people thought he'd never win the USO. Still, he did by 2010, becoming the youngest player in the Open Era to have the CGS. And he won 2 of his (to date) 4 titles directly at the hands of Novak. Keep trying to downplay his success there. He's still got one more than Novak, and likely always will.

 

[Fiero425]

9 Finals is nice for the stat sheet, but only 3 wins amongst them, for a HC specialist is pretty poor. Remember, it's sport, and the main thing is holding up the trophy.

Sure, Rafa took some time to get his legs on HC in a bigger way. And he was often pretty beat up from front-loading his season by the time the USO rolled around. A lot of people thought he'd never win the USO. Still, he did by 2010, becoming the youngest player in the Open Era to have the CGS. And he won 2 of his (to date) 4 titles directly at the hands of Novak. Keep trying to downplay his success there. He's still got one more than Novak, and likely always will.

I'm trying not to downplay Nadal's accomplishments believe it or not! I'm just saying in comparison to Novak & Federer''s quality, it'll be hard to ever think of him as the Ultimate GOAT due to his resume being so "clay heavy!" In the end, even if he wins 2 or 3 more majors than Djokovic, he'd still wind up only 2nd "all time" on my list! Every year Novak's acquiring another stand-alone record that Fedal aren't even close to accomplishing and he did it sooner; @ 34 getting close to immortality with a CYGS! I know I couldn't imagine such a thing when 1st watching, playing, & teaching the game in the 70's! By 35, most senior players are lucky to make one major final, much less 3 or 4 in a season as Novak's done on numerous occasions! Again, it's not like he's a fave of mines! The numbers just say he's superior to all others with 3 or 4 seasons of his that overwhelm past greats entire careers! I could go on, but you know the record already!

 

[Kieran]

That is fair, if the numbers are being underreported, and, most disturbingly, if patients are not being listened to, as seems very much the case with The Sicilian, and your friend. I still have a hard time thinking that they are massively under-reported.

It maybe both deeper and darker than we think. When doctors are “not listening” to patients reporting adverse effects, it’s not because the doctors have something better to be doing with their time. They’re part of a drive. If I told my doctor that I’ve been feeling ill for the last month since he changed my tablets, he’d agree that the tablets must be the reason, and change my medication. With the vaccine being the sudden change in medication, he’s unwilling to listen?

But it goes further. I’m not surprised, and I think we’ll hear more stuff like this in future. This is not anecdotal, it is proof of suppression of reports of adverse effects from the vaccine, in order to push the drive to vaccinate everybody.

I found it reported on this site - these are scientists who are in good faith sceptical about the safety of the vaccines - and I’ve quoted the US Department of Labor’s own instructions in this below, because they’ve updated this policy to extend it to May 2023. On their page, it’s under the heading “Vaccine Related.”

DOL and OSHA, as well as other federal agencies, are working diligently to encourage COVID-19 vaccinations. OSHA does not wish to have any appearance of discouraging workers from receiving COVID-19 vaccination, and also does not wish to disincentivize employers' vaccination efforts. As a result, OSHA will not enforce 29 CFR 1904's recording requirements to require any employers to record worker side effects from COVID-19 vaccination at least through May 2023. We will reevaluate the agency’s position at that time to determine the best course of action moving forward.

COVID-19 - Frequently Asked Questions | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

www.osha.gov

Given the Covid culture everywhere, I imagine that this is just the tip of a mouldering, stinking iceberg…

 

[TheSicilian]

It maybe both deeper and darker than we think. When doctors are “not listening” to patients reporting adverse effects, it’s not because the doctors have something better to be doing with their time. They’re part of a drive. If I told my doctor that I’ve been feeling ill for the last month since he changed my tablets, he’d agree that the tablets must be the reason, and change my medication. With the vaccine being the sudden change in medication, he’s unwilling to listen?

But it goes further. I’m not surprised, and I think we’ll hear more stuff like this in future. This is not anecdotal, it is proof of suppression of reports of adverse effects from the vaccine, in order to push the drive to vaccinate everybody.

I found it reported on this site - these are scientists who are in good faith sceptical about the safety of the vaccines - and I’ve quoted the US Department of Labor’s own instructions in this below, because they’ve updated this policy to extend it to May 2023. On their page, it’s under the heading “Vaccine Related.”

COVID-19 - Frequently Asked Questions | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

www.osha.gov

Given the Covid culture everywhere, I imagine that this is just the tip of a mouldering, stinking iceberg…

Tbh doctors not listening to their patients goes way beyond adverse effects from vaccines, so in my experience it's no surprise what's happening with vaccine adverse effects being ignored. I think some doctors have too much ego, what they have learnt must be right, whatever they believe must be right. With some doctors if you disprove their theory it shatters their belief system & they can't cope, they don't know what to do so they transfer you to another Dr and forget you exist because your case it's too complex for them. It's almost like your illness has defeated them, even though they are not the one suffering... On the other hand you have other doctors usually with less experienced who if their suggestion doesn't work they suggest something else to try. They have a plan a,b,c and d. If you find one of these doctors it's good, of course there still be disagreements but you will probably agree with most things and feel the Dr really is on your side. Also they will be less likely to dismiss things like adverse Covid vaccine reactions.

 

[TheSicilian]

Novak's at least a "Prince" w/ many wins over Nadal on clay; > anyone else; esp. Roger who s/b embarrassed AF w/ so many opportunities!

Good enough argument to be saved to Nole's Blog! Thanks!

I'm getting famous this week I had a post on reddit viewed 13.4K times And now I've made your blog!!

 

[Kieran]

Tbh doctors not listening to their patients goes way beyond adverse effects from vaccines, so in my experience it's no surprise what's happening with vaccine adverse effects being ignored. I think some doctors have too much ego, what they have learnt must be right, whatever they believe must be right. With some doctors if you disprove their theory it shatters their belief system & they can't cope, they don't know what to do so they transfer you to another Dr and forget you exist because your case it's too complex for them. It's almost like your illness has defeated them, even though they are not the one suffering... On the other hand you have other doctors usually with less experienced who if their suggestion doesn't work they suggest something else to try. They have a plan a,b,c and d. If you find one of these doctors it's good, of course there still be disagreements but you will probably agree with most things and feel the Dr really is on your side. Also they will be less likely to dismiss things like adverse Covid vaccine reactions.

Well, there’s that too, the old God Complex, I know from dealing with my old mothers demise that there are doctors like this, and others who aren’t so enamoured of themselves and so they were useful to her…

 

[TheSicilian]

Well, there’s that too, the old God Complex, I know from dealing with my old mothers demise that there are doctors like this, and others who aren’t so enamoured of themselves and so they were useful to her…

Terrible isn't it when you have to deal with the God Complex doctor

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Tbh doctors not listening to their patients goes way beyond adverse effects from vaccines, so in my experience it's no surprise what's happening with vaccine adverse effects being ignored. I think some doctors have too much ego, what they have learnt must be right, whatever they believe must be right. With some doctors if you disprove their theory it shatters their belief system & they can't cope, they don't know what to do so they transfer you to another Dr and forget you exist because your case it's too complex for them. It's almost like your illness has defeated them, even though they are not the one suffering... On the other hand you have other doctors usually with less experienced who if their suggestion doesn't work they suggest something else to try. They have a plan a,b,c and d. If you find one of these doctors it's good, of course there still be disagreements but you will probably agree with most things and feel the Dr really is on your side. Also they will be less likely to dismiss things like adverse Covid vaccine reactions.

I am always of the belief if your doctor dosent listen to your needs, than change a find a doctor that does. Personally speaking I have always liked any medical professional that 'thinks outside the box', of the rigid medical practices at times, a so called bed side manner between a doctor patient is very important, trust is very important, it works both ways.

 

[TheSicilian]

I am always of the belief if your doctor dosent listen to your needs, than change a find a doctor that does. Personally speaking I have always liked any medical professional that 'thinks outside the box', of the rigid medical practices at times, a so called bed side manner between a doctor patient is very important, trust is very important, it works both ways.

Agree bed side manner is a must. It's better for the outside the box thinking Dr, always learning and evolving to keep up with the times. I have seen one Dr who had a 1970's book on his subject showing me some pages of a test once, I couldn't help thinking maybe this information is out of date

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Agree bed side manner is a must. It's better for the outside the box thinking Dr, always learning and evolving to keep up with the times. I have seen one Dr who had a 1970's book on his subject showing me some pages of a test once, I couldn't help thinking maybe this information is out of date

Hey 1970 just a bit out of date lol!....medicine changes at a rapid rate, especially in this day and age, GP's have to keep up, new studies and research are happening world wide, as I said in my post to you, you have to feel comfortable and secure in your GP, or else find one that suits and understands your needs

 

[tented]

I slightly disagree with this, in that I think it just didn't occur to him that everyone didn't simply want what he wanted, which was for him to play the AO, and that he'd be fully embraced when he showed up. It was a massive misreading of the room, and likely will happen again, when his ban gets lifted...meaning he won't expect push-back, if he should get it. That comes from being surrounded by yes-men. I do think he cares more about his ambition than what Australians think of him, but I also think that it doesn't occur to him that people might be against him when his actions benefit his interests, but run counter to theirs.

Yes, that’s what I meant in my post, especially the bolded part. His No. 1 priority is himself, not what the Aussies will think about him if/when he tries again in January. He wants the trophy; he’s used to fans not liking him. We know he’s been desperate for the kind of adoration Federer and Nadal have received, but in the end that’s secondary to his main goal of winning majors.

 

[Moxie]

It maybe both deeper and darker than we think. When doctors are “not listening” to patients reporting adverse effects, it’s not because the doctors have something better to be doing with their time. They’re part of a drive. If I told my doctor that I’ve been feeling ill for the last month since he changed my tablets, he’d agree that the tablets must be the reason, and change my medication. With the vaccine being the sudden change in medication, he’s unwilling to listen?

But it goes further. I’m not surprised, and I think we’ll hear more stuff like this in future. This is not anecdotal, it is proof of suppression of reports of adverse effects from the vaccine, in order to push the drive to vaccinate everybody.

I found it reported on this site - these are scientists who are in good faith sceptical about the safety of the vaccines - and I’ve quoted the US Department of Labor’s own instructions in this below, because they’ve updated this policy to extend it to May 2023. On their page, it’s under the heading “Vaccine Related.”

COVID-19 - Frequently Asked Questions | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

www.osha.gov

Given the Covid culture everywhere, I imagine that this is just the tip of a mouldering, stinking iceberg…

Well, that is truly gob-smacking. If the vaccine is mandated by employers, and a person has a vaccine-related side effect, how is this not an OSHA concern? They basically say: We have one objective, and your side-effects don't fit. Appalling. Though, I still have trouble believing in some world-wide conspiracy. I get the arrogance of MDs, the God-complex, as described above. I can also see how doctors get sold a bill-of-goods, as in the oxycontin scandal. I still think there is an inclination to public good involved, and good done. I believe that the pandemic was a real thing, and efforts made to quell it, many effective.

 

[Moxie]

I'm trying not to downplay Nadal's accomplishments believe it or not!

Given how hard you have tried over the years, believe it or not, I don't believe it.

I'm just saying in comparison to Novak & Federer''s quality, it'll be hard to ever think of him as the Ultimate GOAT due to his resume being so "clay heavy!"

I think we've all begun to agree there will be no "Ultimate GOAT" amongst the 3. But again with the "clay heavy?" Rafa has 8 Majors off of clay, which puts him in Connors, Lendl and Agassi territory for their total haul. (Also Perry and Rosewall.) Take off HCs, Novak's best surface, and he lands at 9.

In the end, even if he wins 2 or 3 more majors than Djokovic, he'd still wind up only 2nd "all time" on my list! Every year Novak's acquiring another stand-alone record that Fedal aren't even close to accomplishing and he did it sooner; @ 34 getting close to immortality with a CYGS! I know I couldn't imagine such a thing when 1st watching, playing, & teaching the game in the 70's! By 35, most senior players are lucky to make one major final, much less 3 or 4 in a season as Novak's done on numerous occasions! Again, it's not like he's a fave of mines! The numbers just say he's superior to all others with 3 or 4 seasons of his that overwhelm past greats entire careers! I could go on, but you know the record already!

Plenty will still argue that he did all of that as his two main rivals got longer in the tooth. And almost getting the CYGS is sort of like your argument that he's made 9 finals at the USO, while only winning 3. Sure, he's been plenty dominant, but it took some time to develop. Did he just get to form late, or is it that he couldn't compete with Roger and Rafa well-enough before they'd beaten each other up pretty good? Chicken or egg? Probably more than a little of both. You can put Novak wherever you like, but I think the 3 will always be inextricably intertwined, with no real answer.

 

[Kieran]

Well, that is truly gob-smacking. If the vaccine is mandated by employers, and a person has a vaccine-related side effect, how is this not an OSHA concern? They basically say: We have one objective, and your side-effects don't fit. Appalling. Though, I still have trouble believing in some world-wide conspiracy. I get the arrogance of MDs, the God-complex, as described above. I can also see how doctors get sold a bill-of-goods, as in the oxycontin scandal. I still think there is an inclination to public good involved, and good done. I believe that the pandemic was a real thing, and efforts made to quell it, many effective.

Yeah, it’s shameful. It means that largely it’s impossible to know the figures for negative vaccine reactions. And I think we can agree that if they want to suppress them that the numbers must be of sufficient quantity to warrant suppression. What’s really strange is that they brazenly state what they’re doing on their website.

The real problem is of course that the medical profession is not looking seriously enough at these problems that some people are suffering, and that’s because politics has made the vaccine a kind of no-go area for criticism in so many respects, which is a scandal in itself.

I didn’t know what you meant when you mentioned the OxyContin scandal and looked it up. I’ve heard of the opioid addiction crisis but this scandal really is unforgivable, isn’t it?

 

[Kieran]

Given how hard you have tried over the years, believe it or not, I don't believe it.

I think we've all begun to agree there will be no "Ultimate GOAT" amongst the 3. But again with the "clay heavy?" Rafa has 8 Majors off of clay, which puts him in Connors, Lendl and Agassi territory for their total haul. (Also Perry and Rosewall.) Take off HCs, Novak's best surface, and he lands at 9.

Plenty will still argue that he did all of that as his two main rivals got longer in the tooth. And almost getting the CYGS is sort of like your argument that he's made 9 finals at the USO, while only winning 3. Sure, he's been plenty dominant, but it took some time to develop. Did he just get to form late, or is it that he couldn't compete with Roger and Rafa well-enough before they'd beaten each other up pretty good? Chicken or egg? Probably more than a little of both. You can put Novak wherever you like, but I think the 3 will always be inextricably intertwined, with no real answer.

Brother @Fiero425 is a favourite poster of mine but he has a blind spot that makes him forget that not only is clay a slam surface and so titles there count the same as slams won off clay, but it’s actually the hardest surface to win on, and yet Rafa does it routinely every year. His 14 FOs stand with Rogers’ 5 in a row Wimbos & USOs, and Novaks “Nole Slam” as the three imperial crowns in this era - so it’s really unfair and impossible to separate them in greatness…

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Brother @Fiero425 is a favourite poster of mine but he has a blind spot that makes him forget that not only is clay a slam surface and so titles there count the same as slams won off clay, but it’s actually the hardest surface to win on, and yet Rafa does it routinely every year. His 14 FOs stand with Rogers’ 5 in a row Wimbos & USOs, and Novaks “Nole Slam” as the three imperial crowns in this era - so it’s really unfair and impossible to separate them in greatness…

Sorry but Rafa’s 14 FO & 112-3 is not only by far the biggest accomplishment in Tennis but also one of the greatest accomplishments in all of sports combined.

 

[Moxie]

Brother @Fiero425 is a favourite poster of mine but he has a blind spot that makes him forget that not only is clay a slam surface and so titles there count the same as slams won off clay, but it’s actually the hardest surface to win on, and yet Rafa does it routinely every year. His 14 FOs stand with Rogers’ 5 in a row Wimbos & USOs, and Novaks “Nole Slam” as the three imperial crowns in this era - so it’s really unfair and impossible to separate them in greatness…

You know I loves me a lot of ol' Fiero, because he's always up for the tussle. He is far from the only person that thinks that clay doesn't count, or that Rafa's resume is too clay-heavy. Someone, who I think is gone now, posted a few years back that it would have been better for Rafa if he'd won fewer times at Roland Garros...because his resume would have looked more "balanced." WTF? As if winning a Major is ever a bad thing?

Good point, I think, to give a nod to these accomplishments: 14 RG for Nadal, 5-in-a-row for Roger at Wimbledon and USO, and the Nole Slam. Can't really separate them, as you say.

 

[Moxie]

Yeah, it’s shameful. It means that largely it’s impossible to know the figures for negative vaccine reactions. And I think we can agree that if they want to suppress them that the numbers must be of sufficient quantity to warrant suppression. What’s really strange is that they brazenly state what they’re doing on their website.

I don't know if we can agree that they would be of sufficient quantity to suppress, but I agree that any inclination to suppress them is shameful. And that they brazenly stated it on their website should be actionable.

The real problem is of course that the medical profession is not looking seriously enough at these problems that some people are suffering, and that’s because politics has made the vaccine a kind of no-go area for criticism in so many respects, which is a scandal in itself.

I didn’t know what you meant when you mentioned the OxyContin scandal and looked it up. I’ve heard of the opioid addiction crisis but this scandal really is unforgivable, isn’t it?

There are books written and documentaries on the OxyContin scandal. The Sachler family has been hugely under the microscope for that, but looks like they'll escape relatively unscathed. But it's beyond unforgivable. They, via Perdue Pharma, willfully created an opioid epidemic in this country, and many are still dying from it. Rural towns decimated. And I think it lead to the fentanyl crisis, which is killing even more.

 

[Fiero425]

Given how hard you have tried over the years, believe it or not, I don't believe it.

I think we've all begun to agree there will be no "Ultimate GOAT" amongst the 3. But again with the "clay heavy?" Rafa has 8 Majors off of clay, which puts him in Connors, Lendl and Agassi territory for their total haul. (Also Perry and Rosewall.) Take off HCs, Novak's best surface, and he lands at 9.

Plenty will still argue that he did all of that as his two main rivals got longer in the tooth. And almost getting the CYGS is sort of like your argument that he's made 9 finals at the USO, while only winning 3. Sure, he's been plenty dominant, but it took some time to develop. Did he just get to form late, or is it that he couldn't compete with Roger and Rafa well-enough before they'd beaten each other up pretty good? Chicken or egg? Probably more than a little of both. You can put Novak wherever you like, but I think the 3 will always be inextricably intertwined, with no real answer.

The "long in the tooth" argument can't be taken seriously for Nadal who's only a year older than Novak! Come on! Why do that? If Fed wants to use his age as an excuse, that's up to him, not me who thinks if he's out there on court, he's ready to compete and win! He did beat Nadal 5-6 times in a row a few years ago! No one talked about his age or the possibility of some kind of PE help! "Must be the racket!"