Nadalites – Rafa Nadal Talk

Kieran

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Yeah, I don't want to see a half baked Rafa play. It's going to be like the 2021 Citi Open all over again, and it wasn't like Rafa was playing well heading into the injury - he only won 2 matches after the US Open. If a half baked Rafa plays at the FO or Wimbledon, I'm afraid there's a high likelyhood he will lose early and suffer a long-term injury. He should just take his time to get fully healed. That strategy worked at the 2022 AO.
The problem for Rafa is, he’s two years older than he was when he took time out in 2021. He’ll be 38 next year at the Olympics, if he plays. It’s highly unlikely he’ll keep recovering the way he did before, and increasingly his body is displaying new frailties. How many different injuries has he had in the last two years? Foot. Abdomen. Cracked rib. He’s struggling.

Roger never had an injury that affected his career at all, he set the record for consecutive slam appearances, it was plain sailing until he hit his mid-30’s and finally faced some bog standard wear and tear. He was the miracle child. But even Roger never won a slam after he turned 36. Rafa has had a much more brutal career injury-wise - and he’ll be 37 in a few weeks…
 
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MargaretMcAleer

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Yeah, I don't want to see a half baked Rafa play. It's going to be like the 2021 Citi Open all over again, and it wasn't like Rafa was playing well heading into the injury - he only won 2 matches after the US Open. If a half baked Rafa plays at the FO or Wimbledon, I'm afraid there's a high likelyhood he will lose early and suffer a long-term injury. He should just take his time to get fully healed. That strategy worked at the 2022 AO.
That post was directed to me BTW lol! thanks for answering on my behalf? Not
 

MargaretMcAleer

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Do you know how we (Rafa's fans ) are gonna suffer this Summer even if he plays RG. Every look, grimace , every change over or any little tweet about Rafa's health. Jim Currier's analysis and the other Rafa critic's takes are going to be unmerciful. Some of Us will have to take a break because we are like Rafa's unwanted children, we will fight with each other and form alliance with Former Fed Fans and the like. Trust me I Don't wish THIS on my WORST enemy. SMH2
Lets not jump to conclusions, lets wait and see when Rafa will return to the tour., in regards to tweets on his health, from now on I will only take notice of tweets from Rafa, not websites etc, as some fans have posted on this post, they have been purely speculative, of course tennis journalists will be looking closely at Rafa when he does return to tour, that is to be expected. I tend to ignore, as I usually mute Jim Courier lol! I suggest you do the same.
 
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the AntiPusher

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Lets not jump to conclusions, lets wait and see when Rafa will return to the tour., in regards to tweets on his health, from now on I will only take notice of tweets from Rafa, not websites etc, as some fans have posted on this post, they have been purely speculative, of course tennis journalists will be looking closely at Rafa when he does return to tour, that is to be expected. I tend to ignore, as I usually mute Jim Courier lol! I suggest you do the same.
U know what I mean..it's gonna be a cruel Summer because our guy is not completely healthy..it is what it is.
 

MargaretMcAleer

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U know what I mean..it's gonna be a cruel Summer because our guy is not completely healthy..it is what it is.
Do you think Rafa will come back to the tour if he is not healthy? personally I do not, at age 37 nearly, he cannot afford to pick up another injury, this hip injury has taken a long time to heal,
 
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Jelenafan

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Rafa’s whole career has been injury plagued, IIRC an injury kept him out of the 2004 French Open. So sustained healthy physical state has never been in the cards for him ever.

It’s different now because so many of his earlier timeouts centered around the chronic foot issue which aggravated his knees. Now it’s more the actual body wearing down (ribs, stomache tear, hip) and yes, he’s turning 37.

Having said that Rafa is not Roger. There actually is less wear and tear from tournament use than Federer had; in Federer’s case I think all that tournament play just grinded down his knees, that streak of consecutive Slams accumulated had to have consequences.

John Isner is still playing now at age 37 and within his career capacity and there are more players having extended careers in all sports. So a 37or 38 year old Nadal could have some flashes of brillance left in him for intermittent periods, certainly I hope for some fortnights. Plus in mental age he’s still 25 so until he hangs it up I’m hoping for a few more streaks of the magic.
 

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Rafa’s whole career has been injury plagued, IIRC an injury kept him out of the 2004 French Open. So sustained healthy physical state has never been in the cards for him ever.

It’s different now because so many of his earlier timeouts centered around the chronic foot issue which aggravated his knees. Now it’s more the actual body wearing down (ribs, stomache tear, hip) and yes, he’s turning 37.

Having said that Rafa is not Roger. There actually is less wear and tear from tournament use than Federer had; in Federer’s case I think all that tournament play just grinded down his knees, that streak of consecutive Slams accumulated had to have consequences.

John Isner is still playing now at age 37 and within his career capacity and there are more players having extended careers in all sports. So a 37or 38 year old Nadal could have some flashes of brillance left in him for intermittent periods, certainly I hope for some fortnights. Plus in mental age he’s still 25 so until he hangs it up I’m hoping for a few more streaks of the magic.
This is a good point. Clearly Rafa has had to deal with a lot of injuries, but this is partially balanced by him having more time off court. In all sports, there's a common and direct correlation between longevity and grinding wear and tear. Some athletes - and really, both Rafa and Roger are two of them - have tremendous longevity. But even with them, father time takes its toll - and it isn't absolute years, but relative ones.

I'm reminded of the recent fasting craze. One of the benefits is that evidently it slows, even reverses, the aging process (to a small extent). Digestion takes a lot of energy, and giving it a rest - whether through daily intermittent fasting, once a week full days, or occasionally long-term fasts, it gives the whole body a rest, and in turn activates autophagy, which is the body's self-repair mechanism.

So while dear Kieran will always want to shine the best possible light on Rafa so that the implication is that if not for bad luck he'd have won 30 Slams (haha), the other side is that his injuries have given his body more rest and maybe extended the duration of his career - and also allowed him to "surge back" multiple times. Meaning, it balances out somewhat (to what degree is debatable).

As for the future, Rafa will turn 37 in a few weeks having played 305 events and 1303 matches (plus the hundreds of matches he played before going pro). When Roger turned 37 in 2018, he had played about 350 events and 1450 matches...so about two full season's worth more.

Roger's big comeback in 2017-18 was short-lived, but he remained a very good player for another couple years, reaching the AO Slam SF in 2020 at age 38 - about a year and half older than Rafa is now. I see no reason why Rafa can't -- on a purely physical and skills level -- comeback to at least a very competitive form (i.e. the guy to beat on clay, at least, and very good elsewhere). But it really comes down to health, and how much more his body can take. I mean, he could come back and have a great summer, then one tweak in August and he's out again, and I have to wonder how many more times he wants to come back.

So if I were a betting man, I'd guess that he'll give it one more go and play as long as he can stay healthy, but if and when he gets hurt again, he'll hang up the racquet and focus on fishing and fatherhood and boning Xisca on his boat (I mean, I would!).

Oh, and as I said upthread, from a purely tennis standpoint, I'd really like to see him (in good form) face Alcaraz at RG. It would be epic, I think.
 

Kieran

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This is a good point. Clearly Rafa has had to deal with a lot of injuries, but this is partially balanced by him having more time off court. In all sports, there's a common and direct correlation between longevity and grinding wear and tear. Some athletes - and really, both Rafa and Roger are two of them - have tremendous longevity. But even with them, father time takes its toll - and it isn't absolute years, but relative ones.

I'm reminded of the recent fasting craze. One of the benefits is that evidently it slows, even reverses, the aging process (to a small extent). Digestion takes a lot of energy, and giving it a rest - whether through daily intermittent fasting, once a week full days, or occasionally long-term fasts, it gives the whole body a rest, and in turn activates autophagy, which is the body's self-repair mechanism.

So while dear Kieran will always want to shine the best possible light on Rafa so that the implication is that if not for bad luck he'd have won 30 Slams (haha), the other side is that his injuries have given his body more rest and maybe extended the duration of his career - and also allowed him to "surge back" multiple times. Meaning, it balances out somewhat (to what degree is debatable).

As for the future, Rafa will turn 37 in a few weeks having played 305 events and 1303 matches (plus the hundreds of matches he played before going pro). When Roger turned 37 in 2018, he had played about 350 events and 1450 matches...so about two full season's worth more.

Roger's big comeback in 2017-18 was short-lived, but he remained a very good player for another couple years, reaching the AO Slam SF in 2020 at age 38 - about a year and half older than Rafa is now. I see no reason why Rafa can't -- on a purely physical and skills level -- comeback to at least a very competitive form (i.e. the guy to beat on clay, at least, and very good elsewhere). But it really comes down to health, and how much more his body can take. I mean, he could come back and have a great summer, then one tweak in August and he's out again, and I have to wonder how many more times he wants to come back.

So if I were a betting man, I'd guess that he'll give it one more go and play as long as he can stay healthy, but if and when he gets hurt again, he'll hang up the racquet and focus on fishing and fatherhood and boning Xisca on his boat (I mean, I would!).

Oh, and as I said upthread, from a purely tennis standpoint, I'd really like to see him (in good form) face Alcaraz at RG. It would be epic, I think.
In fairness to @Kieran I did often mention his absences as having helped prolong his career when brother @Front242 was playing the dope cards. Also Rafa’s long time between points, catching his breath, helped him play long matches. Rafa’s no muppet. He knows how to work the oracle to suit himself. :)

But I think we’re lucky he’s still playing…-ish. He’s not really playing, in other words. Frankly, he hasn’t been a player since last Wimbledon. Sporadic limping forays onto court have only emphasised his dilemma, which is that he’s not been at his best since almost 10 months ago now, and in that time he’s only played 13 matches - losing 8.

I just don’t see him breezing into Paris and being up to scratch even in the early rounds. Sure, his muscle memory of that court will still intimidate some early players, but some will sense an opportunity, and physically and mentally he’s not going to be match fit to face Novak or Carlos if he gets them in the round of 32, which isn’t impossible. He’s an old player, who played every match like a fifteen round boxing fight. He’ll try, and I’d love to see him face Carlos in a RG thriller in the final, but I’m also being realistic, I think. I don’t even mind that we’re in the final few pages. It’s been a very satisfying time roaring him on…
 

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In fairness to @Kieran I did often mention his absences as having helped prolong his career when brother @Front242 was playing the dope cards. Also Rafa’s long time between points, catching his breath, helped him play long matches. Rafa’s no muppet. He knows how to work the oracle to suit himself. :)

But I think we’re lucky he’s still playing…-ish. He’s not really playing, in other words. Frankly, he hasn’t been a player since last Wimbledon. Sporadic limping forays onto court have only emphasised his dilemma, which is that he’s not been at his best since almost 10 months ago now, and in that time he’s only played 13 matches - losing 8.

I just don’t see him breezing into Paris and being up to scratch even in the early rounds. Sure, his muscle memory of that court will still intimidate some early players, but some will sense an opportunity, and physically and mentally he’s not going to be match fit to face Novak or Carlos if he gets them in the round of 32, which isn’t impossible. He’s an old player, who played every match like a fifteen round boxing fight. He’ll try, and I’d love to see him face Carlos in a RG thriller in the final, but I’m also being realistic, I think. I don’t even mind that we’re in the final few pages. It’s been a very satisfying time roaring him on…
Yeah, I don't have high expectations for him in Paris, and to be honest I'd bet he doesn't play. He knows himself and where he's at and won't play Roland Garros unless he thinks he's got a good chance of winning it. I don't think he wants to lose to Pepe Gutierrez in the first round.

But...I wouldn't give up hope yet, for reasons I stated. His skills are almost certainly intact, and there's no whispers yet (afaik) that he's dealing with a potentially career ending situation. I could see another surge. But I also get while you're not feeling too hopeful.

As for Front, I hope he finds a new player to love as I miss his feisty presence. Holger Rune seems the ideal candidate for him.
 

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This is a good point. Clearly Rafa has had to deal with a lot of injuries, but this is partially balanced by him having more time off court. In all sports, there's a common and direct correlation between longevity and grinding wear and tear. Some athletes - and really, both Rafa and Roger are two of them - have tremendous longevity. But even with them, father time takes its toll - and it isn't absolute years, but relative ones.
"It's not the years, it's the mileage." I think you over-value the time Rafa has had to take off the tour due to injury as some kind of benefit. Injury is still injury, and dodgy knees don't totally come back. Plus, prime years lost to injury cannot be compensated for later on.
I'm reminded of the recent fasting craze. One of the benefits is that evidently it slows, even reverses, the aging process (to a small extent). Digestion takes a lot of energy, and giving it a rest - whether through daily intermittent fasting, once a week full days, or occasionally long-term fasts, it gives the whole body a rest, and in turn activates autophagy, which is the body's self-repair mechanism.
WTF? Now you sound like Novak.
So while dear Kieran will always want to shine the best possible light on Rafa so that the implication is that if not for bad luck he'd have won 30 Slams (haha), the other side is that his injuries have given his body more rest and maybe extended the duration of his career - and also allowed him to "surge back" multiple times. Meaning, it balances out somewhat (to what degree is debatable).
I don't think Kieran ever said Rafa would have 30 slams if not for bad luck with injury. (I know you're kidding.) But I don't think time off for injury balances out as much as you would have it. You still miss Majors in your prime years. Look at 2009 for Rafa. He was 22-23, and his knees were crap.
As for the future, Rafa will turn 37 in a few weeks having played 305 events and 1303 matches (plus the hundreds of matches he played before going pro). When Roger turned 37 in 2018, he had played about 350 events and 1450 matches...so about two full season's worth more.
Roger with basically no physical issues until his last few years. (See above.)
Roger's big comeback in 2017-18 was short-lived, but he remained a very good player for another couple years, reaching the AO Slam SF in 2020 at age 38 - about a year and half older than Rafa is now. I see no reason why Rafa can't -- on a purely physical and skills level -- comeback to at least a very competitive form (i.e. the guy to beat on clay, at least, and very good elsewhere). But it really comes down to health, and how much more his body can take. I mean, he could come back and have a great summer, then one tweak in August and he's out again, and I have to wonder how many more times he wants to come back.
Yes, I believe Rafa can have another comeback in him. If Roger did it.
So if I were a betting man, I'd guess that he'll give it one more go and play as long as he can stay healthy, but if and when he gets hurt again, he'll hang up the racquet and focus on fishing and fatherhood and boning Xisca on his boat (I mean, I would!).

Oh, and as I said upthread, from a purely tennis standpoint, I'd really like to see him (in good form) face Alcaraz at RG. It would be epic, I think.
You have said more than once how much you'd like to see Alcaraz catch Rafa at Roland Garros. Of course you would. You've been hoping for someone to beat Rafa at RG for many years, as have many Fed fans, and otherwise Djokovic fans, etc. Everyone who isn't a Nadal fan has been wanting that and gaming it for essentially 16 years, now. Maybe you'll get your wish. Or maybe Nadal will go out early this RG, if he does play, as many fans here worry about. If he plays it this year, and it doesn't go well, I'm not going to consider it a knock on his legacy, nor should anyone. But if he does play, we both know there's still a chance he wins it. If he goes down, my preference would be for Alcaraz to take him out.

But if he plays, he's still my pick to win it.
 
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El Dude

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"It's not the years, it's the mileage." I think you over-value the time Rafa has had to take off the tour due to injury as some kind of benefit. Injury is still injury, and dodgy knees don't totally come back. Plus, prime years lost to injury cannot be compensated for later on.

WTF? Now you sound like Novak.
LOL. A guy won a Nobel Prize for medicine for discovering autophagy. It is a real thing, and many people have shared healing experiences from fasting. And yes, I share some similar views to Novak, or at least in that we both "think otherwise." I'd suggest doing some research into fasting, though, rather than just assuming its false because Sanjay Gupta or some other corporate big pharma stooge didn't tell you about it ;-)
I don't think Kieran ever said Rafa would have 30 slams if not for bad luck with injury. (I know you're kidding.) But I don't think time off for injury balances out as much as you would have it. You still miss Majors in your prime years. Look at 2009 for Rafa. He was 22-23, and his knees were crap.

Roger with basically no physical issues until his last few years. (See above.)

Yes, I believe Rafa can have another comeback in him. If Roger did it.

You have said more than once how much you'd like to see Alcaraz catch Rafa at Roland Garros. Of course you would. You've been hoping for someone to beat Rafa at RG for many years, as have many Fed fans, and otherwise Djokovic fans, etc. Everyone who isn't a Nadal fan has been wanting that and gaming it for essentially 16 years, now. Maybe you'll get your wish. Or maybe Nadal will go out early this RG, if he does play, as many fans here worry about. If he plays it this year, and it doesn't go well, I'm not going to consider it a knock on his legacy, nor should anyone. But if he does play, we both know there's still a chance he wins it. If he goes down, my preference would be for Alcaraz to take him out.

But if he plays, he's still my pick to win it.
It's funny, you just lashed at me for going to the cosmos or something, but here you are once again with the over-defensiveness about Rafa, always bringing it back to Fedal(kovic) Wars. Just quit with the "Fed fans" and "Djokovic fans" crap. Can we move on from all that nonsense? Or at least keep it to those who enjoy it (that is, other Fedalkovic Warriors?)

Whether you believe me or not, I want to see them face-off at RG and for Alcaraz to defeat Rafa because I'm a fan of tennis, and it has a nice storybook feel to it. A passing of the baton or shift of the ages. Not everything is about the Fedal Wars and, quite frankly, some of us have moved on (or were never obsessed with it to begin with). If Rafa played this RG and won it, defeating Alcaraz, I would still enjoy it for its epicness. Part of me would even cheer him on.

Oh, last time I checked, Rafa has been beaten at Roland Garros...a few times. Do those not count?
 

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LOL. A guy won a Nobel Prize for medicine for discovering autophagy. It is a real thing, and many people have shared healing experiences from fasting. And yes, I share some similar views to Novak, or at least in that we both "think otherwise." I'd suggest doing some research into fasting, though, rather than just assuming its false because Sanjay Gupta or some other corporate big pharma stooge didn't tell you about it ;-)
I spent all day talking to a friend in Madrid. Not time to google your Nobel Prize winner. Sorry I didn't know who they were.
It's funny, you just lashed at me for going to the cosmos or something,
I gave that a laugh, and so did you. Don't give me "lashed out." That's not fair.
but here you are once again with the over-defensiveness about Rafa, always bringing it back to Fedal(kovic) Wars. Just quit with the "Fed fans" and "Djokovic fans" crap. Can we move on from all that nonsense? Or at least keep it to those who enjoy it (that is, other Fedalkovic Warriors?)
I didn't really make it about the fans/factions, I made it about losing time to injury in Rafa's prime years, which you are not addressing. I don't give as much of a rats ass about the other, either.
Whether you believe me or not, I want to see them face-off at RG and for Alcaraz to defeat Rafa because I'm a fan of tennis, and it has a nice storybook feel to it. A passing of the baton or shift of the ages. Not everything is about the Fedal Wars and, quite frankly, some of us have moved on (or were never obsessed with it to begin with). If Rafa played this RG and won it, defeating Alcaraz, I would still enjoy it for its epicness. Part of me would even cheer him on.
I do believe you. I also believe you when you say you'd love to see Alcaraz beat Rafa at RG. Why not? It would be the passing of the torch, like when Federer beat Sampras at Wimbledon.
Oh, last time I checked, Rafa has been beaten at Roland Garros...a few times. Do those not count?
3 times in 18 attempts. Sure they count. Still, rather paltry. The only one to win the title going through Rafa was Djokovic. Federer didn't and Novak didn't, in his first try. But, sure, all good efforts.

As I've said before, Rafa had Roger and Novak blocking him at Wimbledon, on HCs, and at the YEC. At Roland Garros, it was only Rafa to block them, and he did a pretty great job of it. Rafa did a better job of getting past them at Majors on their best surfaces than they did getting past him on his.
 
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the AntiPusher

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In fairness to @Kieran I did often mention his absences as having helped prolong his career when brother @Front242 was playing the dope cards. Also Rafa’s long time between points, catching his breath, helped him play long matches. Rafa’s no muppet. He knows how to work the oracle to suit himself. :)

But I think we’re lucky he’s still playing…-ish. He’s not really playing, in other words. Frankly, he hasn’t been a player since last Wimbledon. Sporadic limping forays onto court have only emphasised his dilemma, which is that he’s not been at his best since almost 10 months ago now, and in that time he’s only played 13 matches - losing 8.

I just don’t see him breezing into Paris and being up to scratch even in the early rounds. Sure, his muscle memory of that court will still intimidate some early players, but some will sense an opportunity, and physically and mentally he’s not going to be match fit to face Novak or Carlos if he gets them in the round of 32, which isn’t impossible. He’s an old player, who played every match like a fifteen round boxing fight. He’ll try, and I’d love to see him face Carlos in a RG thriller in the final, but I’m also being realistic, I think. I don’t even mind that we’re in the final few pages. It’s been a very satisfying time roaring him on…
Facing Carlos in the RG if he is 100 percent is not as mentally exhausting as Rafa had to deal with Novak and Roger when he couldn't allow a prolonged drop in his level of play.
 

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Facing Carlos in the RG if he is 100 percent is not as mentally exhausting as Rafa had to deal with Novak and Roger when he couldn't allow a prolonged drop in his level of play.
He’s 37 when that comes around. I can’t emphasise it enough, he hasn’t got the formula for eternal youth. I don’t think he can face a hot Carlos and have dips in his play either. The best chance either Novak or Rafa have against Carlos right now is if the youngster tightens through inexperience. That’s looking less and less likely. But I’m not going to talk Rafa up until he plays. My suspicion is that we’re asking too much of him at this stage. I hope I’m wrong..
 

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He’s 37 when that comes around. I can’t emphasise it enough, he hasn’t got the formula for eternal youth. I don’t think he can face a hot Carlos and have dips in his play either. The best chance either Novak or Rafa have against Carlos right now is if the youngster tightens through inexperience. That’s looking less and less likely. But I’m not going to talk Rafa up until he plays. My suspicion is that we’re asking too much of him at this stage. I hope I’m wrong..
My point is Rafa just have to be 75-80 of what he was during his dominance over Roger and Novak to defeat Carlos IMO.. Novak and Roger's game were and still in Novak's case more complicated to deal with than Carlos. Ask @don_fabio and @Fiero425 who may know what I'm saying..Roger and Novak has totally mastered every stroke in their tennis arsenal. Carlo's game is fantastic and his drop can always catch his opponent off guard. Can Carlos get into continuous 25 plus strokes rallies vs Nadal is something that may be unknown if that makes sense. Yes youth is something that cannot be denied but experience as Rafa and Novak has proven is the ultimate equalizer, IMO.
 

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My point is Rafa just have to be 75-80 of what he was during his dominance over Roger and Novak to defeat Carlos IMO.. Novak and Roger's game were and still in Novak's case more complicated to deal with than Carlos. Ask @don_fabio and @Fiero425 who may know what I'm saying..Roger and Novak has totally mastered every stroke in their tennis arsenal. Carlo's game is fantastic and his drop can always catch his opponent off guard. Can Carlos get into continuous 25 plus strokes rallies vs Nadal is something that may be unknown if that makes sense. Yes youth is something that cannot be denied but experience as Rafa and Novak has proven is the ultimate equalizer, IMO.
I get what you’re saying, you explain yourself very well, you don’t need others to explain it for you. The ultimate equaliser is time, actually - it makes everyone older. You can’t defeat time. I think Carlos is playing great, and the thing with him is, we don’t know if he won’t explode and put in a summer for the ages. But it’s all hypothetical anyways because we still have to see if Rafa can make it into week 2. A 37 year old Rafa who hasn’t really played for almost 11 months by the time the second week of RG comes around is always going to be considered to be less than 50% the player who faced peak Roger on clay. Already I think Carlos is better or as good on clay than Roger was in 2005-2011, the period Rafa played him. He’s an exceptional talent, but even Carlos has a lot to prove in Paris.

We’ll see!
 

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I get what you’re saying, you explain yourself very well, you don’t need others to explain it for you. The ultimate equaliser is time, actually - it makes everyone older. You can’t defeat time. I think Carlos is playing great, and the thing with him is, we don’t know if he won’t explode and put in a summer for the ages. But it’s all hypothetical anyways because we still have to see if Rafa can make it into week 2. A 37 year old Rafa who hasn’t really played for almost 11 months by the time the second week of RG comes around is always going to be considered to be less than 50% the player who faced peak Roger on clay. Already I think Carlos is better or as good on clay than Roger was in 2005-2011, the period Rafa played him. He’s an exceptional talent, but even Carlos has a lot to prove in Paris.

We’ll see!
"Already I think Carlos is better or as good on clay than Roger was in 2005-2011, the period Rafa played him"..

No Chance IMO.. Roger was a beast on clay.. by far was the 2nd best clay court player of the Big Three Generation.. Think about what I am saying .Carlos as you say still has a lot to prove. Roger and Novak's All court game puts a lot of stress on anyone even Rafa.
 
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I didn't really make it about the fans/factions, I made it about losing time to injury in Rafa's prime years, which you are not addressing.
That's because it's been talked about to death for years, and I'm thoroughly sick of going over the same stuff, again and again, or every topic eventually going back to Fedal Wars. And I'm especially sick of the endless defense of Rafa's legacy, even when no one is attacking it. I know some here make remarks, and I occasionally throw out a joking jab, but the "Rafa victimization complex" Is so out of whack with reality, and with the defense of any other player, that it dominates this forum, and we end up back at the same place, again and again.

And I did address it already, and you disagree with the idea I threw out. That's OK. We can disagree on that, but either way these are all hypotheticals: We don't know how many, if any, more Slams Rafa would have won if he hadn't missed certain key Slams. But we can say that about a lot of things - in the careers of Novak and Roger, too, and countless others.

In the end, they accomplished what they accomplished. They all had challenges of different kinds. I find it overly simplistic (not to mention agenda driven) to always come back to this place of, "But Rafa had it hardest of all!"
I do believe you. I also believe you when you say you'd love to see Alcaraz beat Rafa at RG. Why not? It would be the passing of the torch, like when Federer beat Sampras at Wimbledon.

3 times in 18 attempts. Sure they count. Still, rather paltry. The only one to win the title going through Rafa was Djokovic. Federer didn't and Novak didn't, in his first try. But, sure, all good efforts.

As I've said before, Rafa had Roger and Novak blocking him at Wimbledon, on HCs, and at the YEC. At Roland Garros, it was only Rafa to block them, and he did a pretty great job of it. Rafa did a better job of getting past them at Majors on their best surfaces than they did getting past him on his.
Of course. Rafa is great, with top tier accomplishments. What more do you want? Do we need to re-litigate this again and again?

As for Alcaraz and Rafa, more than anything I just want to see them play against each other. I'd prefer if Alcaraz won, but it is mostly because I'm ready for the new era. It isn't some personal agenda against Rafa. Not everyone is "Fiero242." Haha.
 
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El Dude

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"Already I think Carlos is better or as good on clay than Roger was in 2005-2011, the period Rafa played him"..

No Chance IMO.. Roger was a beast on clay.. by far was the 2nd best clay court of the Big Three Generation.. Think about what I am saying .Carlos as you say still has a lot to prove. Roger and Novak's All court game puts a lot of stress on anyone even Rafa.
Agreed that Roger was great on clay, though I think Novak--at his best--was better.
 
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the AntiPusher

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Agreed that Roger was great on clay, though I think Novak--at his best--was better.
Here's the stats

Head to Head on Clay: Roger Federer and Novak Djokovic are locked 4-4 in their evenly-matched clay-court H2H record