Monte Carlo Masters 2018

Moxie

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I can see guys like Del Potro, Nishikori, Cilic, etc... giving Nadal trouble on clay. I can't see them giving him trouble at Roland Garros though.
This year, I think this is your being your usual Eeyore. Del Potro has committed to a limited clay schedule. Cilic is only occasionally hot. Nishikori, maybe at Madrid, for example. He seems to be coming back nicely. I'm not sure where you're going with "etc." And you're right, no one will beat him at RG except himself.
 

DarthFed

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I would be the first one to credit Mirka for being a stalwart for Roger. But I have never seen any evidence that his motivation wavers. Going for the #1 earlier this year was a big clue. And it has sort of solidified the notion that Roger and Rafa are actually going at each other for history. I didn't really believe it, before. But now I think they are. Roger doesn't need Mirka to motivate him.

Well #1 was sitting there so he was definitely going to go hard for it and I'm just glad it's out of the way. But these guys are human and I do think their motivation can fluctuate. I think this definitely happened to Roger by early 2010, you could tell in the interviews after some of those losses that he was going through the motions a bit. And after breaking Sampras's mark, getting married and having the twins it was understandable. I feel he is at a similar juncture here, just closer to the end and the kids are older which is probably tough for him. Nadal and his own quest are certainly factors for him. 20 is nothing if the jerk hits 20 or 21 and thankfully I'm confident Mirka thinks the same. You can give your sister some love :D
 
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MartyB

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So you don't watching one of greatest players of all time at the top of his game on his favorite surface, how can you even call yourself a tennis fan? Also watching federer on grass is really boring at times as well for some people.
I call myself a tennis fan as much as you are. Being a fanboy of Nadal is cool but I didn't insult your man I praised him. But to even suggest that Nadal is in any way as complete and imperious a player as Fed is just not true. All one has to do is look and open your eyes and and just about all tennis experts and past and current champions will acknowledge that. Warching Fed play on grass at Wimbledon for this tennis fan is as good as it gets.
 

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I think you're right. He's come out of the blocks looking more unbeatable than he has in years. Stay healthy, Rafa, and keep it up!
I agree. So is it possible that Nadal so called injury was not so serious after all and elected to pass up the American hard court season for the clay? Sounds familiar the difference between Fed skipping the entire clay court season was he never stated "injury". Not blaming Nadal but I'm just a bit suspicious.
 
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britbox

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Friday Highlights:



Thiem must have woken up this morning thinking he'd spent the night at a Drum themed fancy dress party in Murat's store...

Zverev and Gasquet looked pretty entertaining.
 
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britbox

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4 FO's is a hall of fame career on its own. There's a lot of reason to believe that a man who will turn 32 before this year's FO is even concluded, with a history of injuries and plenty of mileage on his body who relies a lot on movement won't win the FO for 4 years to come.

Agreed. Four years is a long time... too many variables to award these to Rafa right now. We all have a habit of living in the moment and assuming it's going to be a perpetual state of affairs. Only a couple of years ago, a lot of people were assuming Novak was the man to threaten the records with crazy figures being bandied around.
 
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Moxie

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I agree. So is it possible that Nadal so called injury was not so serious after all and elected to pass up the American hard court season for the clay? Sounds familiar the difference between Fed skipping the entire clay court season was he never stated "injury". Not blaming Nadal but I'm just a bit suspicious.
That seems puny to denigrate Nadal's injury in order to make some equivalence with Federer skipping clay. Most of us have no problem with Roger's choices, at this stage of his career. No need to be defensive. But I do think if Rafa was injured, he was injured. He didn't show up in Acapulco just to fool you about his motivations.
 
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Moxie

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I call myself a tennis fan as much as you are. Being a fanboy of Nadal is cool but I didn't insult your man I praised him. But to even suggest that Nadal is in any way as complete and imperious a player as Fed is just not true. All one has to do is look and open your eyes and and just about all tennis experts and past and current champions will acknowledge that. Warching Fed play on grass at Wimbledon for this tennis fan is as good as it gets.
Funny that you can see it one way, and others can see it another. You say that watching Roger play on grass, for you, is as good as it gets. For me, watch Rafa on clay is as good as it gets. So to suggest that Rafa isn't as imperious a player as Roger is...well, it's debatable. You Fed fans are so funny. You're so sure of yourselves that it doesn't even occur to you. Have you watched Rafa play in the last week or so? No, because you're not interested in the clay. Well, that sort of does explain, then, how you only see Roger as "imperious." If you were watching, you'd know that there's another imperious one out there.
 
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mrzz

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When I read people debating Nadal on clay, I see people talking about different things. As each one sees what one wants, the conversation gets nowhere...

First, tennis oscillates, changes, is dynamic to the core. It is actually simply a false truth that players have one given, fixed way of playing. And this is not about level of play or confidence -- which is already a lot. Players adapt their styles to the opponent, to the surface, to the conditions. It varies in time. To give a recent example, the Federer who struggled in IW and Miami and the one who won AO are exactly the same players? Isn't it a bit boring to watch one and fantastic to watch the other? This is the same guy across two months...

And when you talk about Nadal, given how smart he is on court, how tactically disciplined he is, and how crazily bad he wants to win, it is obvious that you see very different versions of him on court. Sometimes, yes, he reverts to full defensive mode and basically wears down the opponent. Does he do it all the time? Of course not.

In general Federer fans (and I am one) don't like to admit that the fact that the surface is slower obviously asks skill for one to finish points. Every recreational player who has power on his shot already heard someone telling him "it is not just about power". You have loads of good clay court players which are all about skill -- a guy like Cuevas can put the ball where he wants. He has no power, no speed, no stamina. And he is a very good clay courter, just out of skill and talent.

Of course that the slower surface gives the faster guy some edge -- specially if he is prepared to run for hours. But it still takes skill to defend properly.

When Nadal is not just chasing the other guy attempted winners -- and, most of the time, he is not doing it -- he is playing bloody good tennis. To talk about just the obvious:

1) He explores the angles better than just about everyone;
2) He is able to deal with low balls better than most, if not everyone;
3) His passing shots -- specially on the run -- are better than from everyone else;
4) His side spin is better than everyone else's.

Points 1 and 2 are direct consequences of his absurd spin rate (but a guy like Sock has the same spin rate and is not able to come even close). Point 4 helps on point 3, but those are still different things. On clay, he couples all this with the depth and spin of his shots to construct his points masterfully. It takes a monster performance from his (fully aggressive) opponent to beat him or make it even competitive. Only Soderling and Federer where able to -- using an offensive strategy -- occasionaly beat and/or make it competitive for a full match on clay (I leave Djokovic out of the equation -- who, when on full form, is another monster on clay -- but who also masterfully mixes defense and offense).

As in most things in life, selective memory defines your opinion. People in general only remember what they want, or what suits better their way to look at things. So it is easy just to remember the moments where Nadal turns into a wall and put everything back into play, or, on the other hand, just remember his deadly winners. The real Nadal is a smart mix of both versions (with all the shades of gray in between), blended with always a match win as the objective.

As I write, Dimitrov is making a valiant challenge. VERY good tennis (if you are not too worried about the winner).
 

Moxie

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Very well-said, mrzz.

Rafa looking more human today than yesterday. More errors. Dimitrov playing pretty well, though, and hanging with him. Both making errors. Not a sloppy match, exactly. Mostly that they're pressuring each other.
 

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As I was about to post that not only Dimitrov needs to serve better, but he needs to serve smarter, he makes two DF's that contributes for him to surrender the set.
 

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Funny that you can see it one way, and others can see it another. You say that watching Roger play on grass, for you, is as good as it gets. For me, watch Rafa on clay is as good as it gets. So to suggest that Rafa isn't as imperious a player as Roger is...well, it's debatable. You Fed fans are so funny. You're so sure of yourselves that it doesn't even occur to you. Have you watched Rafa play in the last week or so? No, because you're not interested in the clay. Well, that sort of does explain, then, how you only see Roger as "imperious." If you were watching, you'd know that there's another imperious one out there.

Some people just don't enjoy blue collar tennis. That's what it really comes down to. Rafa is a ball machine with absurd spin and physicality. For some it doesn't make for the most aesthetically pleasing tennis. I acknowledge that he has made strides in his all around game but at the core it is just about not missing a ball and routinely hitting the ugly forehand kicking above the shoulders until he gets an error or a weak enough shot to put away.

It's obvious a lot of his fans are women for the same reason I'm a "fan" of Wozniacki despite her ugly game. And of course you have the Sampras fan dynamic where a big % of Nadal's fans are people who just hate Federer.
 
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Moxie

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As I was about to post that not only Dimitrov needs to serve better, but he needs to serve smarter, he makes two DF's that contributes for him to surrender the set.
He was doing a lot of things right, except the DFs. Let's see if he can hold onto his belief.
 

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BTW they should give the sportsmanship awards to Dimitrov. In two matches I have seen him concede three points he could have hang on to it. And now he just passed his feet on a not so clear call on set point.
 
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Moxie

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Some people just don't enjoy blue collar tennis. That's what it really comes down to. Rafa is a ball machine with absurd spin and physicality. For some it doesn't make for the most aesthetically pleasing tennis. I acknowledge that he has made strides in his all around game but at the core it is just about not missing a ball and routinely hitting the ugly forehand kicking above the shoulders until he gets an error or a weak enough shot to put away.
Some of us prefer the athletic game on clay, not the manicured fingernails brand of mincing around on grass, racquet in one hand and a cigarette in the other.
 

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He was doing a lot of things right, except the DFs. Let's see if he can hold onto his belief.

He could explore better the angles and vary a bit more. Nadal returns almost without needing to move.
 
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DarthFed

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Some of us prefer the athletic game on clay, not the manicured fingernails brand of mincing around on grass, racquet in one hand and a cigarette in the other.

Haha yeah, Roger has time for a cigarette on a fast surface where points can be ended quickly. I'd say it's Nadal who could be smoking while waiting to receive serve 15 feet behind the baseline
 
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Moxie

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Dimitrov left all of his belief in the first set. Now he seems cooked.
 

Moxie

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Haha yeah, Roger has time for a cigarette on a fast surface where points can be ended quickly. I'd say it's Nadal who could be smoking while waiting to receive serve 15 feet behind the baseline
Did I say "smoking?" I meant to say "clutching the pearls."