Miami Open, Miami, FL, 2025 - ATP 1000

[Moxie]

Just when it looks like Sascha is working out of his post-AO hangover, he goes out in the R16. Oh well. I think for him, right now, it is only about the Slams.

I don't agree with this. Who is he to be "only about the Slams?" He's won no titles this year, and won just 2 last year. I know you like to remind us that he has the most big titles with no Slams, but it takes game and confidence to win Majors, and Zverev is going to need to get out of this habit of losing before the last Sunday. I do agree with you that he has been looking like he was coming back on form...and then he blows it. I also agree that he wants to prove himself by winning a Major, but I don't think HE thinks, either, that he can save himself for Slams, just yet. He's a few steps below that, in game and in confidence.

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

It will be interesting to see how he comes back from his ban - his first real test during his reign of dominance. I think it should be underscored just how good he's been playing, especially going back to Cincinnati of last year. Since then:

• He's won all five big tournaments he's played in, including both Slams, two Masters, and the Tour Finals
• He's won 7 out of 8 tournaments he's played in, including the very competitive Six Kings exhibition and the Davis Cup finals
• During that span, he's 39-1, his only loss being to Alcaraz in in the Beijing final (meaning, he hasn't lost a match since October 2, and has been 24-0 since).
• During that span, he's lost only 11 sets, winning 88.

(all of the above includes Six Kings)

Yeah, the way that Iga has come out and not be the same player after she was exposed for PED use makes me a little worried about Sinner. However, considering how the tour has been a revolving door for winners since his ban started, if Sinner comes back even 95% of the level he was, he is going to dominate in a way that will make 2004 Federer look silly in comparison.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Yeah, the way that Iga has come out and not be the same player after she was exposed for PED use makes me a little worried about Sinner. However, considering how the tour has been a revolving door for winners since his ban started, if Sinner comes back even 95% of the level he was, he is going to dominate in a way that will make 2004 Federer look silly in comparison.

If you had looked at Iga's matches before the Ped incident she was under the pump tennis wise, and her level had dropped,? so stop trying to make up BS okay regarding Sinner making you a bit worried? what rubbish,there is no comparison between the 2 to start with at their tennis level? Iga's level had dropped, while Jannik's level had not.Lets see when level Sinner has when he returns, he probably be rusty which is understandable,

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I don't agree with this. Who is he to be "only about the Slams?" He's won no titles this year, and won just 2 last year. I know you like to remind us that he has the most big titles with no Slams, but it takes game and confidence to win Majors, and Zverev is going to need to get out of this habit of losing before the last Sunday. I do agree with you that he has been looking like he was coming back on form...and then he blows it. I also agree that he wants to prove himself by winning a Major, but I don't think HE thinks, either, that he can save himself for Slams, just yet. He's a few steps below that, in game and in confidence.

Zverev has come out in the media saying he dosent understand his form which is puzzling to him, he said, he has been in winning positions and lost? gee he has just woken up to this fact.Winning a title say before a slam is a 'stepping stone' in ways to me, building form and confidence., Zverev presently has neither. He had a chance to be No 1 while Sinner is serving his ban, he could not take it, he just hasnt the mentality it takes presently to win a GS, quite frankly I dont know if he ever will, not going on current form

 

[El Dude]

I don't agree with this. Who is he to be "only about the Slams?" He's won no titles this year, and won just 2 last year. I know you like to remind us that he has the most big titles with no Slams, but it takes game and confidence to win Majors, and Zverev is going to need to get out of this habit of losing before the last Sunday. I do agree with you that he has been looking like he was coming back on form...and then he blows it. I also agree that he wants to prove himself by winning a Major, but I don't think HE thinks, either, that he can save himself for Slams, just yet. He's a few steps below that, in game and in confidence.

I think you mistook what i meant. I didn't mean that Zverev was "only about the Slams" in the way that Novak might be. But that all he really cares about is winning a Slam - any other title would be ultimately unsatisfactory. 99% of players on tour would love to win a Masters, but to Sascha it would be no better than another consolation prize.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Memo to James Blake tournament director ( I didnt have enough time yesterday to post this)
A 1pm start for 5 matches ( an extra match was squeezed into the original schedule) across 2 sessions on 1 court is a diabolical decision.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I hope the Fil's camp lodge strong protest against this scheduling!,

 

[Moxie]

Terrible TB from Fils to give Mensik the set. I still don't see the appeal of Mensik.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Terrible TB from Fils to give Mensik the set. I still don't see the appeal of Mensik.

Fils ran out of puff in the 2nd set sad to say, his scheduling was not fair at all, his low percentage serve cost him
Menisk has a big serve, though he needs to develop the rest of his game

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

If you had looked at Iga's matches before the Ped incident she was under the pump tennis wise, and her level had dropped,? so stop trying to make up BS okay regarding Sinner making you a bit worried? what rubbish,there is no comparison between the 2 to start with at their tennis level? Iga's level had dropped, while Jannik's level had not.Lets see when level Sinner has when he returns, he probably be rusty which is understandable,

I didn't notice anything different in Iga's level of play in 2024, compared to 2023. The dip in play was only noticeable to me in 2025. The clay season will tell the story on whether this is a blip or if something is seriously broken with Iga's game.

I'd like to think Sinner is just going to come back and dominate as if nothing ever happened, but you just never know with this sport. But if Sinner has one thing going for him, he is one of the most sound players mentally. I never really felt that way about Iga's mental game.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I didn't notice anything different in Iga's level of play in 2024, compared to 2023. The dip in play was only noticeable to me in 2025. The clay season will tell the story on whether this is a blip or if something is seriously broken with Iga's game.

I'd like to think Sinner is just going to come back and dominate as if nothing ever happened, but you just never know with this sport. But if Sinner has one thing going for him, he is one of the most sound players mentally. I never really felt that way about Iga's mental game.

Well you werent paying attention to Iga's level apparently,
Please have you beeen watching Iga's game this year, she is already broken? I suggest you watch her level more closely., both physically and mentally.Go and watch the highlights of her match yesterday between WC Eala for example.
I know Sinner is probably the most sound mentally I have been following him since he was a junior, so your not tellinng me anything new.

 

[Moxie]

I think you mistook what i meant. I didn't mean that Zverev was "only about the Slams" in the way that Novak might be. But that all he really cares about is winning a Slam - any other title would be ultimately unsatisfactory. 99% of players on tour would love to win a Masters, but to Sascha it would be no better than another consolation prize.

it's a small distinction, but i see what you're trying to say. However, I rather think it's an interpretation on your part, judging what he needs to take his CV to the next level. If he's thinking like that, IMO, then he's not going to get one. He needs to care about every match he plays if the results are going to be there for him. He's #2 in the world, and squandering opportunities. I'm not sure he could have gotten to #1, as Margaret suggests, even with Sinner on suspension, without a massive run, but it would have been more impressive if he'd looked like he saw a window and was determined to get through it. Great champions are opportunistic, and Zverev seems to lack that one essential bit of DNA.

 

[Moxie]

Tennis is a sport that is centered on all-time greats. While I have often used 6 Slams as a quick-and-easy cut-off for true greatness, I do include Andy Murray in that category. For me an all-time great is more than just a Slam win total - it is a player who was arguably the best player on tour, at least for a time, and consistently one of the best for more than a year or two (this is where I would put Andy over, say, Jim Courier). Why I consider Andy an ATG kind of comes down to the fact that, for a time, we talked about a Big Four. Even if we always knew that--aside from 2016--it was a Big Three or Big Three + One, Andy was remarkable in that he at least made us think about whether or not he belonged with probably the three greatest players of the Open Era.

I'll never really understand why Murray inspires so much animosity around here, but I think you're right to give him a "special category." The WAS a time when we talked of a Big Four, and it was longer than people remember. Novak came up to #3 in 2007, Murray to #4 in 2008, so it was 3 years that Novak and Andy were bunched together below Roger and Rafa, before Novak's big leap in 2011. The gap between Murray and the other 3 did widen after that, but no other player in the Big 3 era came anything like that close to accomplishing as much as he did in the Big 3 era.

 

[El Dude]

it's a small distinction, but i see what you're trying to say. However, I rather think it's an interpretation on your part, judging what he needs to take his CV to the next level. If he's thinking like that, IMO, then he's not going to get one. He needs to care about every match he plays if the results are going to be there for him. He's #2 in the world, and squandering opportunities. I'm not sure he could have gotten to #1, as Margaret suggests, even with Sinner on suspension, without a massive run, but it would have been more impressive if he'd looked like he saw a window and was determined to get through it. Great champions are opportunistic, and Zverev seems to lack that one essential bit of DNA.

It is an important distinction, though. Novak, Rafa, and Roger all pretty much went into a mode of prioritizing Slams on their schedule late in their careers - everything else seemed like a warm-up to them. It isn't that they didn't play all out in every tournament, but just that they shifted in terms of the weight of their priority. But that's not where I see Zverev at. The Big Three were wanting to add to their legacy, to enjoy "one more" Slam win, while Zverev has more of an edge of desperation.

And yes, it is an interpretation on my part of where i think Zverev's at mentally: deeply frustrated and only really caring about that Slam trophy. I think the term "consolation prize" suits how he must feel at the thought or reality of any other trophy at this point. I mean, the guy has even stated that he knows he's considered the best player never to win a Slam. I'm not even sure he'd be all that happy reaching #1 without winning a Slam; it might even add to the agony of that dubious label.

I agree with you that this is not how Zverev should approach the game. Slam titles, I think, come about through all the things that lead up to them - a rising tide that crests at the right time (or a sustained level of dominance that only the greats can really maintain, which puts them frequently in the position of the possibility of a Slam title). But I also empathize with the reality he's found himself in. I think his frustration and even desperation is understandable, and is borne out of feeling that he can't get better than what he's shown so far - he's optimized his game, at least at times, and still failed. Poor guy, really.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Moxie,
I forgot to add seeing Novak v Korda match was postponed last night they should have put their match first, and put Mensik v Fils match 3rd match up on stadium court, which would have been more fair to Fils

 

[Fiero425]

I'll never really understand why Murray inspires so much animosity around here, but I think you're right to give him a "special category." The WAS a time when we talked of a Big Four, and it was longer than people remember. Novak came up to #3 in 2007, Murray to #4 in 2008, so it was 3 years that Novak and Andy were bunched together below Roger and Rafa, before Novak's big leap in 2011. The gap between Murray and the other 3 did widen after that, but no other player in the Big 3 era came anything like that close to accomplishing as much as he did in the Big 3 era.

Never cared for Andy's type of play; too defensive! I mentioned it ages ago! He plays that game getting massive satisfaction stealing pts.!

 

[Moxie]

It is an important distinction, though. Novak, Rafa, and Roger all pretty much went into a mode of prioritizing Slams on their schedule late in their careers - everything else seemed like a warm-up to them. It isn't that they didn't play all out in every tournament, but just that they shifted in terms of the weight of their priority. But that's not where I see Zverev at. The Big Three were wanting to add to their legacy, to enjoy "one more" Slam win, while Zverev has more of an edge of desperation.

And yes, it is an interpretation on my part of where i think Zverev's at mentally: deeply frustrated and only really caring about that Slam trophy. I think the term "consolation prize" suits how he must feel at the thought or reality of any other trophy at this point. I mean, the guy has even stated that he knows he's considered the best player never to win a Slam. I'm not even sure he'd be all that happy reaching #1 without winning a Slam; it might even add to the agony of that dubious label.

I agree with you that this is not how Zverev should approach the game. Slam titles, I think, come about through all the things that lead up to them - a rising tide that crests at the right time (or a sustained level of dominance that only the greats can really maintain, which puts them frequently in the position of the possibility of a Slam title). But I also empathize with the reality he's found himself in. I think his frustration and even desperation is understandable, and is borne out of feeling that he can't get better than what he's shown so far - he's optimized his game, at least at times, and still failed. Poor guy, really.

I think we're basically aligned on this. And it is a thing we do here: interpret the thinking of players. It's not a guess to say that we know he wants a Major badly. I think we also agree it's a mistake if it's too much his big focus. Or if he's too desperate. To bring Murray back into it, I think he'd been in 4 Major finals before he won his first. He felt the pressure to win one, esp. at Wimbledon, being a Brit, but he had the humility to absorb the losses and keep close in the hunt. Keep faith in the work. To me, and this is interpretation, is what Zverev lacks. I still think he feels some sense of entitlement to the Major title. If another MS 1000 title is too little satisfaction, he won't get there. That's my strong feeling. I can see why you feel for him, I guess, because his disappointment is palpable, (even though it gets mixed with a lot of excuses, often, though not yesterday.) Personally, I find him hard to empathize with, for lots of reasons.

 

[Moxie]

Never cared for Andy's type of play; too defensive! I mentioned it ages ago! He plays that game getting massive satisfaction stealing pts.!

Yes, I believe you've said this many times. I don't personally believe that anyone wins 3 Majors being too defensive, and I don't really believe that anyone "steals" points. They are won and lost. You are within your rights not to love his style of play, of course. But he had an excellent career, and he earned it.

 

[kskate2]

Seb actually said he wanted to play Djoke. Duh! Why? It's not like you won't find a way to be sent packing... Geesh.

 

[Moxie]

Seb actually said he wanted to play Djoke. Duh! Why? It's not like you won't find a way to be sent packing... Geesh.

Why not? I like the attitude. Shame he couldn't hang on to that 2nd set.