Miami Open, Florida, USA, ATP Masters 2017

[DarthFed]

Federberg you're such a lousy little tard, a few days ago you didn't even know about the courts and what altitudes they were at, you were talking about altitudes when i'd already told you in IW desert heat is the factor and in Miami humidity, Moxie had to correct you. And no matter how many Fedtards like Twisted's post it's still distilled shit.

Yes, where most of the players tank it's a tank tourney, no matter who played there. WTF is about rankings, that's why some players bother to give an effort.

Rafa and Toni are always whining about everything everywhere. That's no evidence Rafa actually cares about that tourney.

Nah, that's the result of the bad matchup, imagine, i care about the GS count

Yes, we should all bow to the authority of someone trying to claim that Roger prefers clay to be slower. And bow to someone who says the YEC, which has had very few surprise winners, is a tank tournament. The only example of mini-tanks I've seen there is from guys who are playing the Davis Cup final the following week. Even that's not always the case, look at 2014 YEC when Fed and Wawrinka played a brutal SF vs. each other a week before the Davis Cup final vs. France. It sure looked like they wanted to win pretty badly. On top of a boatload of points, money, and H2H bragging rights, winning the YEC oftentimes sets players up well for the start of the following season.

 

[El Dude]

Ah. Marat Safin. Such a beautiful game. And such a waste of talent. The combination of injuries and a better player (Federer) shortened his brief stay at the top, but he was great fun to watch.

Seems to me that Kyrgios is more of a Safin than a Stan. Loads of natural talent that needs to be honed by a good coach. I don't think the game comes naturally to Stan and he really has to work at it. Kyrgios seems bored by it because it's easy for him. He's like a really intelligent kid with ADHD - his attention span is non-existent.

Great post, and this is probably he best characterization of Kyrgios that I've seen, and I think what makes him such an interesting player. He isn't likeable, but he's also a player that you love to hate, or least grudgingly respect and enjoy watching.

I put Safin up there as the "Ilie Nastase" of his time; every shot in the book with a HOT serve and great touch! His career spanned just enough to encompass and beat Sampras at the 2000 USO Final and Federer in an '05 semi "down under!" :clap :ras: - - - - - - - - - - - http://fiero4251.blogspot.com/2016/08/fan-page-novak-nole-djokovic.html - - - - - -

Interesting comp, although Nastase had a much better career overall. They both won two Slams, but Nastase won a ton more - and during an era in which Slams weren't quite as pre-eminent as they are now.

Nastase was also more consistent. From 1971-73 he was a truly great player, one of the best on tour. Safin really only had one comparable year (2000). So three great years to one. They both had three or four very good years, although Nastase had a longer span of winning titles-- ten years, or 1969-78--vs Safin, who won titles over a seven-year span (1999-2005).

 

[El Dude]

I must admit that I kind of hope Roger loses today. If he wins, it will be a grueling match and I think he'll be exhausted going into the final and lose relatively easily to Rafa. He just seems tired already, like he's limping to the finish line, and Rafa has had a very easy run and looks stronger and stronger.

Plus, I REALLY want to see one of the NextGen break through a real way - which is winning a big tournament (Masters or higher). It is crazy to think that no player born in 1989 or later has won a Masters yet! Cilic and del Potro, both born in 1988 and 28-years old, 29 later this year, are the youngest player with big tournaments on their resume.

But if Kyrgios doesn't win in Miami, I do think we'll see some younger player win at least one Masters this year - either Kyrgios, Zverev, Thiem, Dimitrov, Raonic, or Nishikori. Maybe several. Hopefully!

 

[Federberg]

Federberg you're such a lousy little tard, a few days ago you didn't even know about the courts and what altitudes they were at, you were talking about altitudes when i'd already told you in IW desert heat is the factor and in Miami humidity, Moxie had to correct you. And no matter how many Fedtards like Twisted's post it's still distilled shit.

Yes, where most of the players tank it's a tank tourney, no matter who played there. WTF is about rankings, that's why some players bother to give an effort.

Rafa and Toni are always whining about everything everywhere. That's no evidence Rafa actually cares about that tourney.

Nah, that's the result of the bad matchup, imagine, i care about the GS count

Lol! I'm an adult mate. If I err, I'm confident enough to own it. And by the way, Moxie corrected me about the altitude, I don't recall seeing anything about that from you. I don't believe there's a significant heat differential between the two tournaments. It's the humidity mate. Please try to be more accurate.

You on the other hand feel able to spout whatever garbage you want, and defend it thinking that not admitting you're wrong will somehow obscure the fact. It's childish and a little pathetic, but feel free to keep doing it. Saying it's a tank tourney, when it very clearly isn't, is so obviously fake news I thought you were joking at first, but thank you for enlightening me that you're a Rafa-fan, it all makes sense now

 

[mrzz]

You know what we need? Some Kyrgios fans. I would kick their sorry buts.

 

[Fiero425]

Ah. Marat Safin. Such a beautiful game. And such a waste of talent. The combination of injuries and a better player (Federer) shortened his brief stay at the top, but he was great fun to watch.

Seems to me that Kyrgios is more of a Safin than a Stan. Loads of natural talent that needs to be honed by a good coach. I don't think the game comes naturally to Stan and he really has to work at it. Kyrgios seems bored by it because it's easy for him. He's like a really intelligent kid with ADHD - his attention span is non-existent.

Great post, and this is probably he best characterization of Kyrgios that I've seen, and I think what makes him such an interesting player. He isn't likeable, but he's also a player that you love to hate, or least grudgingly respect and enjoy watching.

I put Safin up there as the "Ilie Nastase" of his time; every shot in the book with a HOT serve and great touch! His career spanned just enough to encompass and beat Sampras at the 2000 USO Final and Federer in an '05 semi "down under!" :clap :ras: - - - - - - - - - - - http://fiero4251.blogspot.com/2016/08/fan-page-novak-nole-djokovic.html - - - - - -

Interesting comp, although Nastase had a much better career overall. They both won two Slams, but Nastase won a ton more - and during an era in which Slams weren't quite as pre-eminent as they are now.

Nastase was also more consistent. From 1971-73 he was a truly great player, one of the best on tour. Safin really only had one comparable year (2000). So three great years to one. They both had three or four very good years, although Nastase had a longer span of winning titles-- ten years, or 1969-78--vs Safin, who won titles over a seven-year span (1999-2005).

Was speaking more about talent and the way they played over "overall" results! I'm quite aware of how good Nastase was; watched him from '73 to '81! His biggest disappointments had to be not winning Wimbledon, losing finals to Stan Smith and Bjorn Borg! I expected him to take it in '76; owned Connors and kept his temper in check! Both he and Borg hadn't lost a set so I expected a much better match! Borg blew him off the court in "straights" which started his run of 5 titles; 6 finals in a row! :clap :angel:

 

[DarthFed]

Lol! I'm an adult mate. If I err, I'm confident enough to own it. And by the way, Moxie corrected me about the altitude, I don't recall seeing anything about that from you. I don't believe there's a significant heat differential between the two tournaments. It's the humidity mate. Please try to be more accurate.

You on the other hand feel able to spout whatever garbage you want, and defend it thinking that not admitting you're wrong will somehow obscure the fact. It's childish and a little pathetic, but feel free to keep doing it. Saying it's a tank tourney, when it very clearly isn't, is so obviously fake news I thought you were joking at first, but thank you for enlightening me that you're a Rafa-fan, it all makes sense now

This is also the same poster who was talking about the Williams Sisters being big juicers and pointed out the Therapeutic Use Exemptions and after I pointed out that Rafa has had 2 of those as well his/her response was that it was only 2 exemptions and the William Sisters have had many more. We are dealing with a special kind of Nadal fan here.

 

[Nekro]

Yes, we should all bow to the authority of someone trying to claim that Roger prefers clay to be slower. And bow to someone who says the YEC, which has had very few surprise winners, is a tank tournament. The only example of mini-tanks I've seen there is from guys who are playing the Davis Cup final the following week. Even that's not always the case, look at 2014 YEC when Fed and Wawrinka played a brutal SF vs. each other a week before the Davis Cup final vs. France. It sure looked like they wanted to win pretty badly. On top of a boatload of points, money, and H2H bragging rights, winning the YEC oftentimes sets players up well for the start of the following season.

The evidence shows that, the best posters of the community agree on that, What else do we need?

About the WTF, these are exactly my thoughts:

"The WTF often has the air of being a glorified exhibition. No player ever states their "dream" is to win a WTF title, yet plenty say it's their dream to win Olympic singles.

If anything, you should blame the players for seemingly valuing the Olympics much more than the WTF.

In fact, the only place I've ever seen the WTF discussed with so much fervour is on these boards, mostly by Federer fans, because he's won it a bunch of times. You get the distinct impressions that most top players would not lose any sleep if they never won WTF, but would rate Olympic singles as one of their greatest achievements

The prestige of the Olympics is not reflected in the points on offer, because it's got a very strange place on the tennis calender, being held only once every 4 years. The players don't realy care how many points are on offer, and just want to win it. I do agree that the Olympics merits more points, but the ATP has always been slow to get things correct. I imagine it'll be worth more points by Rio.

WTF is valued for one thing: MONEY.

That's why so many top players turned up, even when the WTF offered ZERO RANKING POINTS, between 1970 and 1990 (when it was won by the likes of Becker, Lendl, Conners, Borg, McEnroe etc). Why was this event attracting all the best players, when no ranking points were on offer? Hard, cold cash.

That tells you all you need to know about why top players value the WTF...cold, hard cash. They play the Olympics for free because it means so much more in terms of personal and national pride. Take away the prize money for the WTF, and you'd see a lot of top players skipping it for a longer off-season. No one plays the WTF out of love for the tourney, like the Olympics.

Everyone knows Graf has the Career Golden Slam. Everyone knows Agassi has the Career Golden Slam. Everyone knows Serena has the Career Golden Slam. And everyone knows Nadal has the Career Golden Slam.

The term "Career Golden Slam" alone should tell you which has far more value and prestige out of OSG and WTF. It basically puts OSG right next to the slams in terms of the ultimate achievment for a singles career. And it's an instantly recognisable term in the tennis community.

People know this to be the case, but seem to be in denial for some reason. As has been said, there is no Career WTF Slam, as outside of the rabid Federer fanbase, it doesn't hold that type of prestige that comes with winning OSG.

Andre Agassi has won both the WTF and OSG.....Agassi never talks about WTF as being one of his greatest accomplishments. He barely ever mentions it. He talks about his slams and winning Olympic singles gold a lot though. Says it all really. Only in Federer fan land does WTF have as much career prestige as an OSG."

 

[the AntiPusher]

Of course it was an easy win for Nadal. I think we all knew Fognini wouldn't win.

Roger's match though? That'll probably be brutal. He always gets the tougher draws and then if he loses all the talking heads want to talk about is his retirement. Forget that he had to play 2 tough matches the 2 previous matches. When it's Nadal though all they'll say is he plays such a physical game that surely he was tired and that's why he didn't win.

He doesn't "always" get the tougher draws - it tends to even out.

Of course i agree about the useless talking heads ...

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

PS. Nadal gets the same nonsense about retirement and being past it etc. so no different treatment really.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Hey mightyjediT..Rafa is a lot different player when he begins his serving games with a flat serve instead of 80-90% spin serves..I think Yoda (Uncle Toni) got young Jedi padawan to use the force(flat) serves , stretch out your feelings ( play aggressively and move forward)...Rafa will need all of this because he may face Darth Vader..Krygrios or a Sith Lord Darth Federer :devil

 

[Federberg]

^Lol! The best posters? You mean the ones you agree with right? How old are you?

 

[El Dude]

Was speaking more about talent and the way they played over "overall" results! I'm quite aware of how good Nastase was; watched him from '73 to '81! His biggest disappointments had to be not winning Wimbledon, losing finals to Stan Smith and Bjorn Borg! I expected him to take it in '76; owned Connors and kept his temper in check! Both he and Borg hadn't lost a set so I expected a much better match! Borg blew him off the court in "straights" which started his run of 5 titles; 6 finals in a row! :clap :angel:

Yeah, I hear you and got that. I just wanted to point out that Nastase actualized his talent better than Safin did - his results were better.

I can forgive him for losing to Borg, because, well Borg was Borg - and resistance is futile. Stan Smith also had a very high peak for a short time, then a mediocre later career - sort of like Hewitt. But the one he shouldn't have lost was Roland Garros vs. the far inferior Jan Kodes. Kodes is to three-Slam winners what Kriek is to two-Slam winners: the worst in his class.

 

[DarthFed]

The evidence shows that, the best posters of the community agree on that, What else do we need?

About the WTF, these are exactly my thoughts:

"The WTF often has the air of being a glorified exhibition. No player ever states their "dream" is to win a WTF title, yet plenty say it's their dream to win Olympic singles.

If anything, you should blame the players for seemingly valuing the Olympics much more than the WTF.

In fact, the only place I've ever seen the WTF discussed with so much fervour is on these boards, mostly by Federer fans, because he's won it a bunch of times. You get the distinct impressions that most top players would not lose any sleep if they never won WTF, but would rate Olympic singles as one of their greatest achievements

The prestige of the Olympics is not reflected in the points on offer, because it's got a very strange place on the tennis calender, being held only once every 4 years. The players don't realy care how many points are on offer, and just want to win it. I do agree that the Olympics merits more points, but the ATP has always been slow to get things correct. I imagine it'll be worth more points by Rio.

WTF is valued for one thing: MONEY.

That's why so many top players turned up, even when the WTF offered ZERO RANKING POINTS, between 1970 and 1990 (when it was won by the likes of Becker, Lendl, Conners, Borg, McEnroe etc). Why was this event attracting all the best players, when no ranking points were on offer? Hard, cold cash.

That tells you all you need to know about why top players value the WTF...cold, hard cash. They play the Olympics for free because it means so much more in terms of personal and national pride. Take away the prize money for the WTF, and you'd see a lot of top players skipping it for a longer off-season. No one plays the WTF out of love for the tourney, like the Olympics.

Everyone knows Graf has the Career Golden Slam. Everyone knows Agassi has the Career Golden Slam. Everyone knows Serena has the Career Golden Slam. And everyone knows Nadal has the Career Golden Slam.

The term "Career Golden Slam" alone should tell you which has far more value and prestige out of OSG and WTF. It basically puts OSG right next to the slams in terms of the ultimate achievment for a singles career. And it's an instantly recognisable term in the tennis community.

People know this to be the case, but seem to be in denial for some reason. As has been said, there is no Career WTF Slam, as outside of the rabid Federer fanbase, it doesn't hold that type of prestige that comes with winning OSG.

Andre Agassi has won both the WTF and OSG.....Agassi never talks about WTF as being one of his greatest accomplishments. He barely ever mentions it. He talks about his slams and winning Olympic singles gold a lot though. Says it all really. Only in Federer fan land does WTF have as much career prestige as an OSG."

What evidence shows Roger prefers slower clay FFS? And these "best" posters of the community are who exactly? Clowns who share the same wacky opinions as you. It seems your theory is that slow clay gives Roger more time to hit his shots and therefore it is better for him? Roger has long been known for taking time away from his opponents, something that is a lot more difficult to do on a slower surface. Roger's serve naturally becomes a lot less lethal on a slower surface, it's also tougher to be effective at net. Honestly, where in the world did you come up with this?

As for YEC...well this is scary, we finally agree on something. Most players would prefer a singles Gold in Olympics to winning the YEC. Of course a lot of this is a recent thing as many top players did not place much value on the Olympics until the turn of the century. If you want a tournament that has produced a lot of no-name winners the Olympics is your tourney.

Now of course just because most of today's players want to win a gold medal more than the YEC doesn't mean the YEC isn't important to them. Nothing about it comes off as an exhibition tournament, and if Rafa looks "less motivated" to you chances are its because he's used to getting his ass kicked by Roger, Nole, and others there over the years.

 

[Nekro]

Lol! I'm an adult mate. If I err, I'm confident enough to own it. And by the way, Moxie corrected me about the altitude, I don't recall seeing anything about that from you. I don't believe there's a significant heat differential between the two tournaments. It's the humidity mate. Please try to be more accurate.

You on the other hand feel able to spout whatever garbage you want, and defend it thinking that not admitting you're wrong will somehow obscure the fact. It's childish and a little pathetic, but feel free to keep doing it. Saying it's a tank tourney, when it very clearly isn't, is so obviously fake news I thought you were joking at first, but thank you for enlightening me that you're a Rafa-fan, it all makes sense now

I posted the court pace index and i said IW is about desert heat=lack of humidity while Miami was about humidity because all of you were clueless about the Miami speed. Interestingly, multiple people liked that post, it was before you came up with the altitude stuff. So what are you talking about? I told you the deal before everybody and you were cluelessly blundering after.

How was I wrong the WTF is a tank tourney. People obviously tanking=tank tourney for me. Is there an official definition for a tank tourney? For me it's unenjoyable because of all the tanking, what's not clear about this?

 

[Federberg]

I posted the court pace index and i said IW is about desert heat=lack of humidity while Miami was about humidity because all of you were clueless about the Miami speed. Interestingly, multiple people liked that post, it was before you came up with the altitude stuff. So what are you talking about? I told you the deal before everybody and you were cluelessly blundering after.

How was I wrong the WTF is a tank tourney. People obviously tanking=tank tourney for me. Is there an official definition for a tank tourney? For me it's unenjoyable because of all the tanking, what's not clear about this?

I saw your post about the speed index, I looked at the index (not sure I paid much attention to your accompanying writing), and I 'liked' it too. It was good, well done. Clearly not even you post garbage 100% of the time

As for your WTF argument? Well... it's not really an argument really is it? Just a whiny opinion

 

[Moxie]

I never said that. Rafa had one good set and one crappy one. He does seem to have his "USO serve" that comes out once in a blue moon. He's serving a lot better than Roger has so far this event. Also this is as well as I've ever seen him hit his backhand. Kind of interesting that you can say that about both Roger and Rafa this year and that's why so far they're lapping the field as though it was 10 years ago.

Aw, I'm just funnin' with ya. And I agree on all that.

 

[Nekro]

It seems your theory is that slow clay gives Roger more time to hit his shots and therefore it is better for him? Roger has long been known for taking time away from his opponents, something that is a lot more difficult to do on a slower surface. Roger's serve naturally becomes a lot less lethal on a slower surface, it's also tougher to be effective at net. Honestly, where in the world did you come up with this?

As for YEC...well this is scary, we finally agree on something. Most players would prefer a singles Gold in Olympics to winning the YEC. Of course a lot of this is a recent thing as many top players did not place much value on the Olympics until the turn of the century. If you want a tournament that has produced a lot of no-name winners the Olympics is your tourney.

Now of course just because most of today's players want to win a gold medal more than the YEC doesn't mean the YEC isn't important to them. Nothing about it comes off as an exhibition tournament, and if Rafa looks "less motivated" to you chances are its because he's used to getting his ass kicked by Roger, Nole, and others there over the years.

You've understood none of the previous posts, Roger was struggling with the bounces from players with heavy topspin, especially with his BH, on fast clay. And how in hell did you bring his serve in this? He lost those matches because he couldn't handle the incoming balls=fail return fest, shank fest.

I saw your post about the speed index, I looked at the index (not sure I paid much attention to your accompanying writing), and I 'liked' it too. It was good, well done. Clearly not even you post garbage 100% of the time

As for your WTF argument? Well... it's not really an argument really is it? Just a whiny opinion

Too bad you hadn't read it because you would have known humidity slows down Miami and Moxie wouldn't have had to tell you again. BTW even the casuals knew this years ago, what does that make you ?


Really you genius? If it's not an argument, just an opinion then how could i be wrong in the first place. I can't prove they're tanking you can't prove they're not tanking but tennis fans with brains agree they're tanking, it's obvious.

 

[DarthFed]

You've understood none of the previous posts, Roger was struggling with the bounces from players with heavy topspin, especially with his BH, on fast clay. And how in hell did you bring his serve in this? He lost those matches because he couldn't handle the incoming balls=fail return fest, shank fest.



Too bad you hadn't read it because you would have known humidity slows down Miami and Moxie wouldn't have had to tell you again. BTW even the casuals knew this years ago, what does that make you ?


Really you genius? If it's not an argument, just an opinion then how could i be wrong in the first place. I can't prove they're tanking you can't prove they're not tanking but tennis fans with brains agree they're tanking, it's obvious.

He's struggling with the height of the bounce, which often goes shoulder-level or above on clay. It has nothing to do with speed.

What does his serve have to do with it? I don't know genius, you just said he plays better on slower clay and I'm showing you all the ways that makes zero sense (less effective serve, harder to take time away from opponent, less effective net play, etc) Sure sounds to me like his game actually (gasps) suffers a bit on the slower surfaces.

 

[Federberg]

You've understood none of the previous posts, Roger was struggling with the bounces from players with heavy topspin, especially with his BH, on fast clay. And how in hell did you bring his serve in this? He lost those matches because he couldn't handle the incoming balls=fail return fest, shank fest.



Too bad you hadn't read it because you would have known humidity slows down Miami and Moxie wouldn't have had to tell you again. BTW even the casuals knew this years ago, what does that make you ?


Really you genius? If it's not an argument, just an opinion then how could i be wrong in the first place. I can't prove they're tanking you can't prove they're not tanking but tennis fans with brains agree they're tanking, it's obvious.

Sigh... again with the inaccuracies, considering I opined that humidity was a factor in the speed variance irrespective of court speed. Keep trying though.. this is fun. And matey... people's opinions can be wrong. Do you really not know that?

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

No matter who is on the other side, I have a feeling we will congratulate Rafa on his first ever Miami win.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Just watched a replay of Berdych vs Federer..at match point Tomas served a body serve to Roger..Roger just casually blocked the serve to the service line ..why Berdych didn't he follow it into the net or why was he not attacking the ball..makes no sense ..this one will haunt him 4ever