Miami Open, Florida, USA, ATP Masters 2017

[Fiero425]

didnt know isner supported trump yikess. i hate to bring politics into tennis or anything else for that matter but if you support Trump i have no respect for you. isner was trash anyway all serve and no game

Which is why I hate knowing personal business of celebrities! It truly colors my opinion of them; esp. if abusive, mean-spirited, or politically insane! :nono :cover

 

[mrzz]

Lol! Keep watching him buddy. Your blindness will be cured. There is definitely change of pace. I think you're being fooled by topspin. I can't see how your argument can be credible when you see how he has done against Novak and Roger. There is something real there

Now I know how these things start...

I do not see the connection between my argument and his results against Djokovic and Federer, as I never said he is a bad player. But I won´t be trapped into this discussion for too long -- time will tell anyway.

 

[mrzz]

All of you were clueless about why Miami plays more slowly, including mrzz

Honestly I am still clueless. The court pace index is a nice piece of information, you´re absolutely right about humidity... but there is still something missing. I always had the impression that Miami was way slower than the average HC, and slower than IW in particular. So, fine, in this regard the humidity x dryness makes a lot of sense. But then the CPI comes and tells a different story -- you can still say that what we see is the result of a court a bit quicker than IW, but with the ball slowed down by humidity. Still fine -- but this year it does not look that slow -- and that other link I gave, which has stats related to aces, have that Miami has more aces than IW. Could the bounce explain this?

And finally you have players saying (at least this year) that Miami is playing faster than IW (I am sure Federer said this, I guess I´ve seen a few more go on the same direction).

My point is: wow, what a bunch of contradictory data. Maybe we overestimate the role of those things, and assume the position which better fits how each one explains the results. In other words: put Federer and Nadal to play twice on the same court. If Federer wins one and Nadal the other, we might say that one was faster and the other slower, and forget that are more things to the result of a match than this (and, yes, I know that statistics come into play once we have a lot of results over time).

 

[britbox]

And finally you have players saying (at least this year) that Miami is playing faster than IW (I am sure Federer said this, I guess I´ve seen a few more go on the same direction).

Federer said this on ESPN:

"To be quite honest, when I came to Miami, I just thought, like I did in Indian Well, 'Eventually, it's just going to catch up with me. Miami is probably not going to work that well because it's slower. So let's be realistic here: Semis would be an unbelievable run.' Here we are in the finals and I get a chance to win the tournament."

 

[britbox]

Just lol All of you were clueless about why Miami plays more slowly, including mrzz, i wrote fricking first it was humidity doing it when i posted the court pace index and now you're acting as if anybody had a clue about it before me. You "opined" anything after i already told you the answer just a few posts before. And when i called you out on it you said you saw and liked my post but looked only at the index and not my text, just Good clownery

I think measuring the court speed or perceived court speed is pretty complicated to be honest and if you listen to players then they often contradict each other and even themselves depending on what day, what time and what court they are playing on.

Think of some of the factors:

- The surface (i.e. Hard, Clay, Grass)
- The type of court (i.e. Laykold, Plexicushion) or with grass, the compound of grass, for instance
- Finish - i.e. On hards, the paint job and how they mix the compound
- Treatment - i.e. On clay, watering of courts etc..
- Atmospheric conditions - humidity, heat, altitude, time of day
- Bounce
- Balls - i.e. Wilson, Penn etc...

Then with the CPI index, which I believe is based on Hawkeye, you'd need to look at the sample. Indian Wells is Hawkeyed on every court I think, some tournaments will only have it on a couple of courts. The size of the sample will vary across tournaments.

So, you can have one court at the same tournament playing differently to another court even at the same time of day... throw in other variables like different times and atmospheric conditions then you'll have different readings... that's on the same day. If it's done over years, particularly if you throw in other variables like balls then it gets skewed even more. The AO used Wilson which are more tightly bound and take a little longer to fluff up - that's one of the main reasons some players said it was quicker this year.

So, tons of variables.... as for Miami, Federer, in one interview, said it was slower than IW, but also said the balls were flying through air very quickly in an earlier interview after the Berdych match. Gilbert said it was slower than IW but faster than previous years, others say it's playing quicker.

 

[Moxie]

In the spirit of the argument over surfaces and speed, Roger had this to say, via NYTimes:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/31/sports/tennis/miami-open-nadal-fognini-federer-kyrgios.html?_r=0

“I think the surface is good for him,” Federer said before the tournament began. “I think it plays slower here than in Australia and Indian Wells, which gives Rafa more time to defend and use his forehand. I would expect him in the heat, in the wind, with this kind of a surface, to be very tough to beat.” Given that there are so many variables in a tournament, and that I said it matters the opinion of those that play it, I will concede to Roger's POV.

 

[Nekro]

Then with the CPI index, which I believe is based on Hawkeye, you'd need to look at the sample. Indian Wells is Hawkeyed on every court I think, some tournaments will only have it on a couple of courts. The size of the sample will vary across tournaments.

Yeah, there's the ITF's cour pace rating CPR which is measured with this apparatus:

And the court pace index CPI which is based on hawkeye data: "So it's actually a true representation of the court speed for the speed of the court that year at each tournament. As it's an index it also factors in the climate / weather conditions not just the surface. This is a far better way for fans to see the true speed rather than relying on a dated classifications not carried out on site at the tournament"

However, as you said, players say different things because the conditions can change from one day to another. On a hot day the pressure in the ball is higher, it will be faster. Then there's the humidity which is also influenced by many factors, even stuff like wind direction, so that can change too very quickly that's why it seems players contradict each other.

 

[Shivashish Sarkar]

Guys, let's have some final moment discussion. What's going to happen ?

 

[bajana]

Guys, let's have some final moment discussion. What's going to happen ?

ha! looks like nothing

 

[bajana]

Where's everybody? :sad & lonely:

 

[bajana]

An oath, an oath! I have sworn an oath
Shall I lay perjury on my soul?
No, not for Tennis Frontier.

 

[Fiero425]

Where's everybody? :sad & lonely:

Posting on the other thread where Federer owns all of TENNIS! :angel: :cover

 

[bajana]

Where's everybody? :sad & lonely:

Posting on the other thread where Federer owns all of TENNIS! :angel: :cover

dammit - I totally forgot the SF and F threads. D0h!