Maradona v Pele...

[atttomole]

Besides the WC, a Copa America would be good for Messi. He has not been able to win it in three attempts.

 

[Federberg]

Besides the WC, a Copa America would be good for Messi. He has not been able to win it in three attempts.

Doesn't that just say it all? South American football isn't what it used to be and he still can't post a W

 

[brokenshoelace]

I'm sorry I can't separate the quality of his Barcelona team mates from Messis club achievements. I'm not even sure he's the greatest club player of all time. The question I have is, would he be as good if he didn't have those players around him. I have real doubts. That's the thing about guys like Brazilian Ronaldo, that dude was a one man wrecking crew, put him in the Wrexham team and they would play awesome. Messi? Not so much in my opinion. Let's agree to disagree

The reason the talk of his teammates irritates me is not because it explains the titles he won at Barca. It surely does. But it doesn't explain his actual level. Meaning, simply, watch him play. Not sure Iniesta had much to do with Messi scoring 70+ La Liga goals in which he dribbles past at least two players (that's a legit number).

So yes, Messi's won a lot in part because of his great Barcelona teammates. But he doesn't dribble, pass and finish better than anyone in history because of them. Sometimes it's as simple as just watching someone play and assessing them.

 

[Federberg]

^I hear you, and I have some sympathy with that. But degree of difficulty also has its attractions. That's why Maradona and Brazilian Ronaldo are so impressive to me. By the way, you could put Dimitrov in a match against the 200th ranked player in the world and he'll look other worldly. Doesn't make him Roger Federer. That's why I would have loved to see Messi play club football without such a stacked team around him. In actual fact of course we do see Messi playing for his national team and just not quite stacking up

 

[Obsi]

Lol! Why am I not surprised. I would have something like this...

1, Pele & Maradona

Bullshit. Not just that Maradona doesn't share the No. 1 spot with Pele but also he isn't the second.

The second is Alfredo Di Stéfano

 

[brokenshoelace]

Bullshit. Not just that Maradona doesn't share the No. 1 spot with Pele but also he isn't the second.

The second is Alfredo Di Stéfano

LMAO

 

[britbox]

LMAO

DiStefano isn't a ludicrous shout. Before the 80s many regarded him as Top #3. That Madrid team where diStefano and Puskas ruled the roost won a ton of European cups.

 

[brokenshoelace]

DiStefano isn't a ludicrous shout. Before the 80s many regarded him as Top #3. That Madrid team where diStefano and Puskas ruled the roost won a ton of European cups.

Him being better than Maradona (as well as Messi, Brazilian Ronaldo and even Portuguese Ronaldo) is absurd.

 

[britbox]

Him being better than Maradona (as well as Messi, Brazilian Ronaldo and even Portuguese Ronaldo) is absurd.

I don't think he was better but it's not an absurd school of thought. He was world class, definitely an all-timer and is probably held as #2 in most Argentine hearts. He should be in anyones Top 10 discussion, if not Top 2 or 3.

 

[Obsi]

Before the 80s many regarded him as Top #3.

In 2000 FIFA Football Committee voted as follows (%):

Pele 87.5
Di Stefano 12.5
Maradona 0

http://en03.touri.com/Berichte/FIFA-Spieler/MalePlayer.pdf

 

[Federberg]

I don't think he was better but it's not an absurd school of thought. He was world class, definitely an all-timer and is probably held as #2 in most Argentine hearts. He should be in anyones Top 10 discussion, if not Top 2 or 3.

Definitely in the discussion. But personally I see Pele and Maradona as inhabiting rarified space. Didn't Puskas have an overall better scoring record?

 

[mrzz]

In 2000 FIFA Football Committee voted as follows (%):

Pele 87.5
Di Stefano 12.5
Maradona 0

http://en03.touri.com/Berichte/FIFA-Spieler/MalePlayer.pdf

I like zero. 0. It is round, it is the number which most resembles a football (but it also resembles a watermelon, so it might cause confusion to some). It is pure, and the concept behind it is easy to grasp (even if mathematically is a bit more profound):

Nought, nil, nada, nothing, zilch, zip.

From this result we can also calculate the number of Argentinians (in this subset) that voted for Maradona. The number is....

Zero, nought, nil, nada, nothing, zilch, zip.

 

[brokenshoelace]

In 2000 FIFA Football Committee voted as follows (%):

Pele 87.5
Di Stefano 12.5
Maradona 0

http://en03.touri.com/Berichte/FIFA-Spieler/MalePlayer.pdf

And as we all know, nothing says credibility like FIFA.

 

[brokenshoelace]

I like zero. 0. It is round, it is the number which most resembles a football (but it also resembles a watermelon, so it might cause confusion to some). It is pure, and the concept behind it is easy to grasp (even if mathematically is a bit more profound):

Nought, nil, nada, nothing, zilch, zip.

From this result we can also calculate the number of Argentinians (in this subset) that voted for Maradona. The number is....

Zero, nought, nil, nada, nothing, zilch, zip.

I thought you were more informed than that. The vote was purely political. Maradona was battling with FIFA at the time in a well publicized dispute.

 

[brokenshoelace]

And just FYI, FIFA also ran an internet poll at the time, and Maradona won by a landslide. 53% of the votes to Pele's 18. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_Player_of_the_Century

 

[Obsi]

And as we all know, nothing says credibility like FIFA.

Well, FIFA surely has more credibility than you.

 

[Obsi]

And just FYI, FIFA also ran an internet poll at the time, and Maradona won by a landslide. 53% of the votes to Pele's 18. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_Player_of_the_Century

Who voted in that internet poll? Ordinary soccer fans.

Ordinary soccer fans hardly have a high level knowledge of soccer history. How much an average soccer fan knows about Di Stefano?

 

[mrzz]

I thought you were more informed than that. The vote was purely political. Maradona was battling with FIFA at the time in a well publicized dispute.

mimimimimimimim

My response:

 

[Federberg]

I thought you were more informed than that. The vote was purely political. Maradona was battling with FIFA at the time in a well publicized dispute.

I have real doubts that @mrzz will exercise any objectivity where Diego is concerned. Don't remember the dispute but the first thing I thought when I saw the year was that it wasn't so long after Maradona's drugs disgrace in '94!

 

[Obsi]

Di Stefano insists Pele is the best player ever
http://en.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/169585.html

So, an Argentinan who says Pele is greater than Maradona.