Maradona v Pele...

[mrzz]

I have real doubts that @mrzz will exercise any objectivity where Diego is concerned. Don't remember the dispute but the first thing I thought when I saw the year was that it wasn't so long after Maradona's drugs disgrace in '94!

First things first: bbbrffffffffffffffftttt

Now, as I said before, Maradona is tied for second on my list, in the "gods" department. Second (I cannot believe I need to help you guys on the discussion, damn), I doubt Maradona even had any "real" drug problems in 94. He was the main guy fighting FIFA over the matches at noon issue (that were killing the players, so that you, fat Europeans could watch the matches at a comfortable time), so they made him pay. He was playing scary good on that WC. Strange that you guys like Maradona, he is a player who plays with the brain, and normally you guys like you´re little brainless crazy ball carrying drones.

Yes, FIFA sucks and it is completely corrupt. They´re only good to organize polls to find out the greatest ever (useless thing, as everybody should now that. They should teach it in the schools). See? That´s objective!

 

[brokenshoelace]

Well, FIFA surely has more credibility than you.

Since I've never been involved in any kind of fraud, I'm inclined to call the above an idiotic statement.

 

[Obsi]

Since I've never been involved in any kind of fraud, I'm inclined to call the above an idiotic statement.

Your logic is idiotic. You're an anonymous source and therefore FIFA is more credible than you.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Your logic is idiotic. You're an anonymous source and therefore FIFA is more credible than you.

So an organization which has been proven to be fraudulent is credible just because it's known? I guess any publicity really is good publicity in your book.

You were less unbearable when trying to convince us why Novak has the body of a 25 year old, days before he called it a season midway through it. So, that's quite an accomplishment, really.

 

[Obsi]

So an organization which has been proven to be fraudulent is credible just because it's known? I guess any publicity really is good publicity in your book.

I didn't say FIFA is credible but more credible than you. It's ridiculous to believe that an anonymous poster on Internet forum can be classified as a credible source.

You were less unbearable when trying to convince us why Novak has the body of a 25 year old, days before he called it a season midway through it. So, that's quite an accomplishment, really.

You're trying to convince us it's absurd to claim that Di Stefano is greater than Messi. This is more unbearable than me trying to convince you why Novak has the body of a 25 year old, days before he called it a season midway through it.

 

[brokenshoelace]

I didn't say FIFA is credible but more credible than you. It's ridiculous to believe that an anonymous poster on Internet forum can be classified as a credible source.



You're trying to convince us it's absurd to claim that Di Stefano is greater than Messi. This is more unbearable than me trying to convince you why Novak has the body of a 25 year old, days before he called it a season midway through it.

Proof why you're unbearable to argue with:

Initially, all I claimed is that the FIFA voting was political as they were in the middle of a widely publicized dispute with Maradona. That, in addition to their shady history and subsequent reveals, makes them not credible, particularly on this subject.

Moreover, I never claimed I was a source you idiot. There is nothing about an opinion which can be classified as a "source." We are not reporting news. We are giving our opinions about the best player ever. When it comes to that subject, there can literally be no sources. It's an opinion. The only sources are stats, videos, etc...

And yes, it is absurd that a player who dominated an era of football which was pre-advanced tactics, training drills, new age fitness and diet regimens, etc... could be better than a player who is doing it in a much, much, much, much, much tougher and deeper era.

 

[mrzz]

And yes, it is absurd that a player who dominated an era of football which was pre-advanced tactics, training drills, new age fitness and diet regimens, etc... could be better than a player who is doing it in a much, much, much, much, much tougher and deeper era.

Broken, check out the distinction El Dude introduced between "great" and "best" in the thread https://www.tennis-prose.com/tennisforum/threads/revised-top-10-for-men-all-time.1846/

 

[Federberg]

Broken, check out the distinction El Dude introduced between "great" and "best" in the thread https://www.tennis-prose.com/tennisforum/threads/revised-top-10-for-men-all-time.1846/

Lol! You're bringing that contentious thread here!? It's all very well, but one still has to factor in the amount of difference in depth and quality, based on that debate. Although I will personally concede that the difference for football is no where near as extreme as it surely is in tennis. Just making the point though

 

[mrzz]

First, correcting myself: it is the distinction between "greatest" and "best" (not "great" as I wrote).

Second: don´t worry Federberg, I just wanted to use that precise distinction, not assess the differences you mentioned.

Third: FUCK! I forgot! This is the football thread! You´re all wrong! You´re all suckers! Fuck off!

 

[Federberg]

 

[Obsi]

Proof why you're unbearable to argue with:

Initially, all I claimed is that the FIFA voting was political as they were in the middle of a widely publicized dispute with Maradona. That, in addition to their shady history and subsequent reveals, makes them not credible, particularly on this subject.

If they were in the middle of a widely publicized dispute with Maradona, it doesn't mean the voting was political. The voting was very reasonable.

Moreover, I never claimed I was a source you idiot. There is nothing about an opinion which can be classified as a "source." We are not reporting news. We are giving our opinions about the best player ever. When it comes to that subject, there can literally be no sources. It's an opinion. The only sources are stats, videos, etc...

You are an imbecile. A person can be classified as a source if they give their opinions. Bellow is a quote from Thinking and Writing Processes, Simon & Schuster Books For Young Readers, 1995, page 209:

"An authoritative opinion is one that comes from a reliable source"

And yes, it is absurd that a player who dominated an era of football which was pre-advanced tactics, training drills, new age fitness and diet regimens, etc... could be better than a player who is doing it in a much, much, much, much, much tougher and deeper era.

You don't know how would Di Stefano have performed in the 1950s and 1960's if at that time the conditions were like now.

 

[Federberg]

 

[Federberg]

Well well well... Argentina close to not qualifying. Not good for a GOAT candidate who has the likes of Aguero to assist

 

[brokenshoelace]

Well well well... Argentina close to not qualifying. Not good for a GOAT candidate who has the likes of Aguero to assist

Claiming he has the likes of Aguero to assist isn't good for someone who wants to offer a credible argument considering Aguero isn't even a starter for Argentina and has barely figured as of late (and didn't play a minute in the last two games)...

You could claim that doesn't change the facts, but I could just as easily claim that you can't really discuss a player's level without watching said player (this goes for mrzz especially).

 

[mrzz]

You could claim that doesn't change the facts, but I could just as easily claim that you can't really discuss a player's level without watching said player (this goes for mrzz especially).

Hey, leave me out of this! Don't worry, Argentina will qualify in dramatic fashion. And every time they suck in the qualifiers they do well in the world cup. And when did I discuss Messi's level? I did not mention him on one list I wrote precisely because I don't know him that well.

Damn! Why on earth I am posting on this again?!

 

[Federberg]

Claiming he has the likes of Aguero to assist isn't good for someone who wants to offer a credible argument considering Aguero isn't even a starter for Argentina and has barely figured as of late (and didn't play a minute in the last two games)...

You could claim that doesn't change the facts, but I could just as easily claim that you can't really discuss a player's level without watching said player (this goes for mrzz especially).

That's fair enough, we can contextualise it however we want, but if he can't even get his team to qualify, it's not a good look. He's looking more George Best than Pele/ Maradona imho

 

[brokenshoelace]

That's fair enough, we can contextualise it however we want, but if he can't even get his team to qualify, it's not a good look. He's looking more George Best than Pele/ Maradona imho

Well, my personal opinion about how good Messi is aside (better than Pele), if we're going to compare him to someone based on accomplishments and perception, then Johan Cruyff, rather than the insanely overrated Gerge Best, is a much more apt analogy. Like Cruyff, Messi is the best player of his generation and is uniquely talented in a very seamless way. Moreover, like Cruyff, Messi dominated at the club level and won multiple Champions League trophies while playing on an incredibly talented team that revolutionized the way football is played, and like Cruyff, Messi came close on the international stage by carrying his team to a World Cup final but came up short (of course Holland played much more attractive football than that putrid stuff Argentina played in 2014 but that's neither here nor there).

 

[britbox]

Yep, Cruyff is definitely a better analogy.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Messi drags an absolutely atrocious Argentina side to the World Cup with a phenomenal performance. It's been exactly 11 months since someone other than Messi scored a goal for Argentina in a competitive fixture. Think about that. That's insane.

I urge anyone to watch highlights of their 0-0 draw with Peru, and see the qualify of chances Messi set up for his teammates and how they missed all of them. Luckily, he decided to take things upon himself this time and scored a sensational hat-trick.

That said, Argentina have no shot in hell at winning the World Cup, barring massive improvement.

 

[atttomole]

Messi was imperial. That is the kind of performance that is expected from a superstar of his level, and Argentinians hope that he can reach the same level at the World Cup. The third goal against Ecuador was sublime.