Is Nadal still undefeated in GS when not injured?

[Federberg]

I beg to differ. It's excuse making, and it's whining. These are great champions, they'll win multiples more than they lose over their careers. Have the good grace to accept set backs when they occur without excuses. Props to Nole for being the best out of the current bunch in this regard (at least in recent times). And as for Rafa's injuries, while I accept that he's had more career pauses than his rivals, he's by no means exceptional in the history of the game, it's more the case that some of his rivals are absolute freaks. But over and above this.. we will never know to what extent injuries have impaired the likes of Federer and others. Because frankly they're a bit more circumspect about revealing such things than your guy... in my humble opinion. And they're to be applauded for that

 

[Kieran]

In fairness, Rafa had an injury last Sunday, not an excuse.

As for the rest of it, if they maybe circumspect to the point of concealing their absence for seven months, then they're also capable of magic.

 

[Front242]

Ah the old MTO Myth.

Would we call that an Urban Myth, or just Received Wisdom?

Seems like if something's repeated often enough, there's peeps who think it's true. I remember well the MTO against del Potro at Wimbledon, called for just after he reached set point. Purely evil tactics! And the one against Roger at Wimbledon in 2007, he's up 4-0, causing Roger to first time screech the immortal phrase, "this is killing me!", then Rafa called for an MTO, which helped Roger recover his composure and retain his title.

It's just Fedfan wishful thinking to accuse Rafa - and then pass these allegations off as fact.

What do we know? Well, we know that Rafa is the most injury prone of the top tier players. We know he's played slams with busted knees, and skipped majors for the same reason. So we know that his injuries have impacted negatively on his career. They've impacted negatively on his chances to win majors, never more starkly than last Sunday.

We know he must be acutely aware of of his body and its frailties, and we know that he's asked for MTO's. He gets a lot of injuries, remember? He even plays with bad injuries, remember?

And he gets asked a lot about injuries - because they're such a huge impact on his career.

What else?

Oh yeah, the Fedfans try trivialise his injuries and also, they accuse him of making them up and lying, and cheating because of them. We saw that even among good posters, and the Stan match has also leaked in a sudden shipment of hilarious trolls, who are just making the gloating more visible.

What else do we know?

It's raining in Dublin, that's all you need to know for now...

I love how you think it's all about Fed fans. I remarked earlier a friend of mine who barely watches tennis save for the Wimbledon final as it's the most traditional slam, watched that Petzschner match with me and couldn't believe those MTOs in that match and he supports no player. Commentators said the same, Petz said the same. He was running the same before and after the timeout and commentators said it was very highly likely it was a tactical ploy. It's a bit sad your only defense of your player's dubious past with MTOs is to slag one group of fans. I'm pretty sure TONS of fans of players other than Fed who watched that match would agree those were well dodgy timeouts.

 

[Front242]

In fairness, Rafa had an injury last Sunday, not an excuse.

As for the rest of it, if they maybe circumspect to the point of concealing their absence for seven months, then they're also capable of magic.

No one is disputing that he was injured in last Sunday's final. The Wimbledon matches he was losing, however are a completely different story since he was moving as well as ever.

 

[Kieran]

I love how you think it's all about Fed fans. I remarked earlier a friend of mine who barely watches tennis save for the Wimbledon final as it's the most traditional slam, watched that Petzschner match with me and couldn't believe those MTOs in that match and he supports no player. Commentators said the same, Petz said the same. He was running the same before and after the timeout and commentators said it was very highly likely it was a tactical ploy. It's a bit sad your only defense of your player's dubious past with MTOs is to slag one group of fans. I'm pretty sure TONS of fans of players other than Fed who watched that match would agree those were well dodgy timeouts.

It's usually Fedfans.

As for the MTO, I'm sure that's not a very systematic way of ruling the thumb over things: my best mate from Cork said the same as me, so there! :snigger

The facts remain the same, some people suspect him and other people don't. Now, those who suspect him may not all be Fedfans, but that goes the same for those who don't suspect him: they're surely not all Rafa fans.

He's taken MTO's when it wasn't convenient, buddy. That's another thing we know. You should feel free to give him the benefit of the doubt, especially since you've travelled so far from all your previous positions regarding his injuries, absences, etc...

 

[brokenshoelace]

I beg to differ. It's excuse making, and it's whining. These are great champions, they'll win multiples more than they lose over their careers. Have the good grace to accept set backs when they occur without excuses. Props to Nole for being the best out of the current bunch in this regard (at least in recent times). And as for Rafa's injuries, while I accept that he's had more career pauses than his rivals, he's by no means exceptional in the history of the game, it's more the case that some of his rivals are absolute freaks. But over and above this.. we will never know to what extent injuries have impaired the likes of Federer and others. Because frankly they're a bit more circumspect about revealing such things than your guy... in my humble opinion. And they're to be applauded for that

AO 2005: Foot injury.
2008: 6 months affected by mono.
2009: AO till the clay season: Bad back (there was even a big deal about him pulling out of the Davis Cup and Dubai because of that)
2010: Clay season + Wimbledon: Bad back (see the post Berdych loss press conference).
2013: ENTIRE YEAR affected by back injury.

The good thing about Federer is that he doesn't blame specific matches on injuries, but rather, a whole few months because...why the hell not?

I actually believe him, and you can see the effects these injuries had on his game....if only people were as open minded about far more obvious (and serious) injuries to other players, especially when said injuries result in time off, or serving like Dementieva/moving like Karlovic.

Any Fed fan care to dispute the above?

PS: I only bring up "Fed fans" due to your username, and because most of them are all too eager to attack Nadal/Toni for the most minor injury discussion, with some going as far as to question the seriousness of the 7 months layoff.

 

[Federberg]

I beg to differ. It's excuse making, and it's whining. These are great champions, they'll win multiples more than they lose over their careers. Have the good grace to accept set backs when they occur without excuses. Props to Nole for being the best out of the current bunch in this regard (at least in recent times). And as for Rafa's injuries, while I accept that he's had more career pauses than his rivals, he's by no means exceptional in the history of the game, it's more the case that some of his rivals are absolute freaks. But over and above this.. we will never know to what extent injuries have impaired the likes of Federer and others. Because frankly they're a bit more circumspect about revealing such things than your guy... in my humble opinion. And they're to be applauded for that

2008: 6 months affected by mono.
2009: AO till the clay season: Bad back (there was even a big deal about him pulling out of the Davis Cup and Dubai because of that)
2010: Clay season + Wimbledon: Bad back (see the post Berdych loss press conference).
2013: ENTIRE YEAR affected by back injury.

The good thing about Federer is that he doesn't blame specific matches on injuries, but rather, a whole few months because...why the hell not?

I actually believe him, and you can see the effects these injuries had on his game....if only people were as open minded about far more obvious (and serious) injuries to other players, especially when said injuries result in time off, or serving like Dementieva/moving like Karlovic.

Any Fed fan care to dispute the above?

PS: I only bring up "Fed fans" due to your username, and because most of them are all too eager to attack Nadal/Toni for the most minor injury discussion, with some going as far as to question the seriousness of the 7 months layoff.

Not sure if I could have been any clearer.. I don't approve of it... for any player. I think some do it more than others.

For the sake of accuracy... 2010 spring/summer was a thigh injury he got in Halle. Lost to Hewitt in the final, and was wearing strapping during Wimbledon. :blush:

You folks still don't seem to get it. I don't approve when Rafa does it, and I certainly don't approve when Roger does it.. Perhaps as Roger gets older his injuries impact his performance a bit more, that doesn't mean he didn't have them before. My sense is that his declining form has led him to search for rationalisations, I'm not sure peak Rafa should be playing that game. For a start his style of play is a major contributory factor, he's not going to get much sympathy from me..

 

[StantheMan]

It's funny to see all the Nadal fans jumping up and down getting all frantic trying to defend " their man." Never in the history of this sport has a player used the excuse of injury so many times to explain away his losses.

 

[brokenshoelace]

For the sake of accuracy... 2010 spring/summer was a thigh injury he got in Halle. Lost to Hewitt in the final, and was wearing strapping during Wimbledon. :blush:

For the sake of accuracy, it was both:

"Federer had said: 'I've been feeling bad for the last two, three matches. I am struggling with a little bit of a back and a leg issue.'

He claimed his back and right leg problems began at a tournament in Halle, Germany, last month, where he lost the final to Lleyton Hewitt.

'That never quite really went away,' he said. 'It came back a little bit after the first-round match and then went away again and just kept creeping back sometimes during the matches."

 

[brokenshoelace]

You folks still don't seem to get it.

I get it just fine, but you were particularly singling someone by saying this:

"We will never know to what extent injuries have impaired the likes of Federer and others. Because frankly they're a bit more circumspect about revealing such things than your guy."

With Federer, I know exactly how much his injury last year affected him because he's been pretty vocal about it. With Nadal, he talks about it...and actually misses some time. The latter in particular, is what makes his injuries stand out. Either he's a wimp, or the injuries are serious enough.

 

[Front242]

http://anygivensurface.wordpress.com/2011/06/29/unfair-advantage-nadal-and-the-mto/

 

[Kieran]

http://anygivensurface.wordpress.com/2011/06/29/unfair-advantage-nadal-and-the-mto/

I gave up after the second sentence:

"It’s hard to speak out against Rafael Nadal. Lynn Barber found out just how hard when she wrote about the world number one in a negative light."

You never read that Lynn Barber article, did you? That's an example of why journalism is a low profession... :nono

 

[Front242]

I read that before yeah, but a slightly shorter version of it maybe. Seen worse but it doesn't change anything about the article I posted. I guess it's easier to just ignore talk of Rafa's MTO abuse than actually read about it. Anyway, I didn't start the whole debate on MTOs but was merely remarking on something StantheMan brought up. The MTO in last weekend's final was genuine and I simply replied that this one at least seemed genuine and we ended up here since many don't appear to have been.

 

[Federberg]

The Lynn Barber article was definitely low class I agree. But I find it hard to argue with the substance of the actual article.

 

[britbox]

I thought the Lynn Barber article was a case of: "I met Rafael Nadal and didn't like him very much."

 

[Front242]

I thought the Lynn Barber article was a case of: "I met Rafael Nadal and didn't like him very much."

That's all I got from it too. Guess she wasn't in any hurry to shake that left hand either.

 

[Federberg]

I thought the Lynn Barber article was a case of: "I met Rafael Nadal and didn't like him very much."

That's all I got from it too. Guess she wasn't in any hurry to shake that left hand either.

It seemed worse than that to me. She had an agenda. And implied certain things about him. Very low class

 

[Kieran]

I thought the Lynn Barber article was a case of: "I met Rafael Nadal and didn't like him very much."

It reminded me of the lads in the canteen, with all the low level insinuations. Just cos Rafa wouldn't gossip about his own girlfriend, she insinuates he's gay? Then she says he's mind-controlled? I think she couldn't handle him not liking her -and she dirtied herself... :nono

 

[britbox]

I thought the Lynn Barber article was a case of: "I met Rafael Nadal and didn't like him very much."

It reminded me of the lads in the canteen, with all the low level insinuations. Just cos Rafa wouldn't gossip about his own girlfriend, she insinuates he's gay? Then she says he's mind-controlled? I think she couldn't handle him not liking her -and she dirtied herself... :nono

I only speed read it once but I didn't get those insinuations. I got the insinuation that the players live in a bubble and we really have no idea what they are clearly like as there is a buffer to the outside world... and that includes Lynn Barber.

 

[Federberg]

I thought the Lynn Barber article was a case of: "I met Rafael Nadal and didn't like him very much."

It reminded me of the lads in the canteen, with all the low level insinuations. Just cos Rafa wouldn't gossip about his own girlfriend, she insinuates he's gay? Then she says he's mind-controlled? I think she couldn't handle him not liking her -and she dirtied herself... :nono

I only speed read it once but I didn't get those insinuations. I got the insinuation that the players live in a bubble and we really have no idea what they are clearly like as there is a buffer to the outside world... and that includes Lynn Barber.

I must say.. I definitely got that insinuation