Is Nadal still undefeated in GS when not injured?

[brokenshoelace]

Moxie, the timeout took 9, yes 9 minutes. That's 3 times the allowable time for a MTO. Carlos Ramos and Rafa should be ashamed of themselves. He ran pretty ok after that 9 minute break too the rest of the match...

Nadal doesn't decide how long the MTO lasts.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Hey, just a question re: the Del Potro match at Wimbledon:

Does anyone else remember Del Potro suffering a mild slip while he was losing and taking a MTO that lasted even longer than Nadal's? I think it happened in the 3rd set.

I wonder why no one brings that up.

 

[brokenshoelace]

And they all lived happily ever after, right? :nono What he's done in the past is the epitome of gamesmanship and taking bad sportsmanship to a whole new level, sorry. I still feel sorry for Petzschner to this day as I firmly believe the way he was playing that day in Wimbledon 2010 and being up 2 sets to 1 before all those dubious MTOs he was going to win that match. Haase in the round before too had a good shot at a win before similar proceedings. Petzschner's career took a huge nosedive after that but who knows how he'd be playing if he'd been allowed to play on without any undue stoppages while fired up, hitting aces and mad forehands all over the place. It's a joke, sorry.

I do of course hope players stay injury free but I've no idea what that's supposedly got to do with taking a break for some hidden ailment that seemingly doesn't cause any difference whatsoever to how he runs before or after the MTOs. Oh and toilet breaks before your opponent serves for the match...very cool and sporting I'm sure you'll agree.

Sorry, there's no defense for his actions there. He knew exactly what he was doing there (toilet break at Indian Wells 2012) but thankfully Roger served out the match so that cunning plan didn't work out as he'd hoped. But MTOs have worked in his favour many times and, no, it's not sporting behaviour from a world number 1 or 2. Kinda fitting to be number 2 actually when that's what he takes before his opponent serves out the match. A load of number 2 is what that is.

Btw, he sure does put a lot of effort into what he does, namely finding any means necessary to win, bending every rule in the book. Stalling at the start of matches, between service points, timeouts that seem completely unjustified save for a select few, toilet breaks before his opponent serves to close out a match. Clearly a lot of time and effort does go into trying to win even when he's being soundly beaten.

Name me the last questionable Nadal medical time-out since 2010. It's almost been 4 years...maybe it's time to let that go.

 

[TsarMatt]

Did anyone remember Delpo's timeout at the AO this year in his losing match? Didn't he have a shower? He got a pretty gentle pass on that. Now, if it were Nadal...

 

[Kieran]

Moxie, the timeout took 9, yes 9 minutes. That's 3 times the allowable time for a MTO. Carlos Ramos and Rafa should be ashamed of themselves. He ran pretty ok after that 9 minute break too the rest of the match...

Nadal doesn't decide how long the MTO lasts.

WRONG!!!








According to Front, anyway.

Rafa must threaten the ump with a severe wedgie if the MTO is too short: "eez no the long, no? Opponent eez still the calm, need eez another 5 minuetos..."

 

[Front242]

And they all lived happily ever after, right? :nono What he's done in the past is the epitome of gamesmanship and taking bad sportsmanship to a whole new level, sorry. I still feel sorry for Petzschner to this day as I firmly believe the way he was playing that day in Wimbledon 2010 and being up 2 sets to 1 before all those dubious MTOs he was going to win that match. Haase in the round before too had a good shot at a win before similar proceedings. Petzschner's career took a huge nosedive after that but who knows how he'd be playing if he'd been allowed to play on without any undue stoppages while fired up, hitting aces and mad forehands all over the place. It's a joke, sorry.

I do of course hope players stay injury free but I've no idea what that's supposedly got to do with taking a break for some hidden ailment that seemingly doesn't cause any difference whatsoever to how he runs before or after the MTOs. Oh and toilet breaks before your opponent serves for the match...very cool and sporting I'm sure you'll agree.

Sorry, there's no defense for his actions there. He knew exactly what he was doing there (toilet break at Indian Wells 2012) but thankfully Roger served out the match so that cunning plan didn't work out as he'd hoped. But MTOs have worked in his favour many times and, no, it's not sporting behaviour from a world number 1 or 2. Kinda fitting to be number 2 actually when that's what he takes before his opponent serves out the match. A load of number 2 is what that is.

Btw, he sure does put a lot of effort into what he does, namely finding any means necessary to win, bending every rule in the book. Stalling at the start of matches, between service points, timeouts that seem completely unjustified save for a select few, toilet breaks before his opponent serves to close out a match. Clearly a lot of time and effort does go into trying to win even when he's being soundly beaten.

Name me the last questionable Nadal medical time-out since 2010. It's almost been 4 years...maybe it's time to let that go.

I agree it's been a while but that doesn't excuse the past. RG 2011 btw with Fed at 5-2 first set. Not a full MTO but a stoppage none the less and Fed lost the set after being up 5-2 :nono

"*Nadal 2-5 Federer
We like to praise Rafa for incredible powers on clay, and rightly so. But Federer, lest we forget, grew up on clay and has been the second best player on the planet for some time. For the first time today, Nadal gets a look-in at 15-30 - only for Federer to shut the door with a third ace of the day. He puts away a forehand approach to extend his advantage and let's out a huge roar. Then comes the first pump and an "allez!". Nadal calls for the trainer... what's up? Off comes the sock to reveal heavy strapping on the Spaniard's left foot. Blisters? Hmmm... doesn't look good. He gets patched up then apologises to the umpire for taking so long. Encouraging signs for Federer and his fans in the stands are becoming increasingly vocal."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/tennis/9504906.stm

 

[Kieran]

Okay, so obviously he had blisters which made Federer's fans very happy.

Very next game:

Nadal 3-5 Federer*
A horrible double fault suggests all is not well with the world number one. He manages to fight his way to 40-15, but Federer pins him back for deuce with a mind-blowing forehand winner. "He's all over Nadal's second serve today," says John Lloyd on BBC Two. When Rafa drills a forehand long, it's break and set point... Federer sliced backhand drop shot... inches wide. The umpire comes down for a look but confirms it is out. A reprieve for Nadal and he capitalises on it, passing Federer with an outrageous crosscourt backhand to snatch the game. Federer will now serve for the set.

Seems like Roger was quite perky there, unaffected, in fact. Played great the next game, played a risky set point. Didn't make it. Had Nadal on the defensive on his own serve.

What was this about again? :s

 

[Front242]

Okay, so obviously he had blisters which made Federer's fans very happy.

Very next game:

Nadal 3-5 Federer*
A horrible double fault suggests all is not well with the world number one. He manages to fight his way to 40-15, but Federer pins him back for deuce with a mind-blowing forehand winner. "He's all over Nadal's second serve today," says John Lloyd on BBC Two. When Rafa drills a forehand long, it's break and set point... Federer sliced backhand drop shot... inches wide. The umpire comes down for a look but confirms it is out. A reprieve for Nadal and he capitalises on it, passing Federer with an outrageous crosscourt backhand to snatch the game. Federer will now serve for the set.

Seems like Roger was quite perky there, unaffected, in fact. Played great the next game, played a risky set point. Didn't make it. Had Nadal on the defensive on his own serve.

What was this about again? :s

It's about his rhythm being put off naturally from the stoppage at 5-2 seeing how many times he's seen Nadal play these mind games when far behind in matches/sets. Of course it gets on your mind and hence why Nadal caught up. And I'm sure the stoppage did not make Fed fans happy actually.

 

[Kieran]

Okay, so obviously he had blisters which made Federer's fans very happy.

Very next game:

Nadal 3-5 Federer*
A horrible double fault suggests all is not well with the world number one. He manages to fight his way to 40-15, but Federer pins him back for deuce with a mind-blowing forehand winner. "He's all over Nadal's second serve today," says John Lloyd on BBC Two. When Rafa drills a forehand long, it's break and set point... Federer sliced backhand drop shot... inches wide. The umpire comes down for a look but confirms it is out. A reprieve for Nadal and he capitalises on it, passing Federer with an outrageous crosscourt backhand to snatch the game. Federer will now serve for the set.

Seems like Roger was quite perky there, unaffected, in fact. Played great the next game, played a risky set point. Didn't make it. Had Nadal on the defensive on his own serve.

What was this about again? :s

It's about his rhythm being put off naturally from the stoppage at 5-2 seeing how many times he's seen Nadal play these mind games when far behind in matches/sets. Of course it gets on your mind and hence why Nadal caught up.

Oh right. But if Roger had won the set point - instead of trying a low-percentage, risky drop shot - then you'd have nothing to argue with, eh?

His rhythm wasn't actually affected at all... :nono

 

[Front242]

Okay, so obviously he had blisters which made Federer's fans very happy.

Very next game:

Nadal 3-5 Federer*
A horrible double fault suggests all is not well with the world number one. He manages to fight his way to 40-15, but Federer pins him back for deuce with a mind-blowing forehand winner. "He's all over Nadal's second serve today," says John Lloyd on BBC Two. When Rafa drills a forehand long, it's break and set point... Federer sliced backhand drop shot... inches wide. The umpire comes down for a look but confirms it is out. A reprieve for Nadal and he capitalises on it, passing Federer with an outrageous crosscourt backhand to snatch the game. Federer will now serve for the set.

Seems like Roger was quite perky there, unaffected, in fact. Played great the next game, played a risky set point. Didn't make it. Had Nadal on the defensive on his own serve.

What was this about again? :s

It's about his rhythm being put off naturally from the stoppage at 5-2 seeing how many times he's seen Nadal play these mind games when far behind in matches/sets. Of course it gets on your mind and hence why Nadal caught up.

Oh right. But if Roger had won the set point - instead of trying a low-percentage, risky drop shot - then you'd have nothing to argue with, eh?

His rhythm wasn't actually affected at all... :nono

Yes it was. Why else would Nadal have said sorry to the umpire for taking so long. Nice that he said it to the umpire and not Federer mind you. He knew what he was doing there. Fed was sitting there like a prick for more time than he should've been and we've seen this before in Hamburg '08.

*Nadal 2-5 Federer
We like to praise Rafa for incredible powers on clay, and rightly so. But Federer, lest we forget, grew up on clay and has been the second best player on the planet for some time. For the first time today, Nadal gets a look-in at 15-30 - only for Federer to shut the door with a third ace of the day. He puts away a forehand approach to extend his advantage and let's out a huge roar. Then comes the first pump and an "allez!". Nadal calls for the trainer... what's up? Off comes the sock to reveal heavy strapping on the Spaniard's left foot. Blisters? Hmmm... doesn't look good. He gets patched up then apologises to the umpire for taking so long.

 

[Kieran]

He apologised because he has manners?

I don't see the issue here. It's up to the umpire to say how long MTO's take, not the players, so if it goes over time, that's not the players fault.

Federer played great to get to set point - and tried a high-risk drop shot to close it out. He was confident and playing well enough to get to that stage.

But it's Rafa's fault the drop shot missed by centimetres?

Federer was unaffected. You're making this stuff up - because it's Nadal!

 

[Front242]

He apologised because he has manners?

I don't see the issue here. It's up to the umpire to say how long MTO's take, not the players, so if it goes over time, that's not the players fault.

Federer played great to get to set point - and tried a high-risk drop shot to close it out. He was confident and playing well enough to get to that stage.

But it's Rafa's fault the drop shot missed by centimetres?

Federer was unaffected. You're making this stuff up - because it's Nadal!

He should have apologised to his opponent more than the umpire really or the least, both. I'm not making anything up, it doesn't matter who it was, I don't approve of any player taking the pi$$ with stoppages when behind to throw their opponent off. He was definitely affected by the stoppage, as was Del Potro at Wimbledon 2011 when he had to wait ages, losing all his adrenaline as a result and muscles cooling down, focus lost, etc.

 

[Kieran]

Come on, you're going crazy online here. Del Potro? You obviously didn't watch the match. Rafa asked for assistance after he'd just reached set point.

What about the MTO in the Wimbledon final in 2007, you always ignore that one. Why? Because you have an agenda and it doesn't square with this one.

You hate Rafa, we get it. But that's your problem, not his, or ours...

 

[Front242]

Come on, you're going crazy online here. Del Potro? You obviously didn't watch the match. Rafa asked for assistance after he'd just reached set point.

What about the MTO in the Wimbledon final in 2007, you always ignore that one. Why? Because you have an agenda and it doesn't square with this one.

You hate Rafa, we get it. But that's your problem, not his, or ours...

I don't have any agenda here. I as pointed out already I don't approve of any player abusing the rules or taking too long for a minor issue that didn't exist not only for the rest of the match, but the rest of the tournament. It's the umpire's fault but Rafa went along with it naturally enough, nice guy that he is. That MTO wouldn't have been needed if they saw to his absolutely destroyed beyond belief (not) foot at the change of ends after the set was over, which would've been the fairer thing to do I'm sure you'll agree.

 

[brokenshoelace]

And they all lived happily ever after, right? :nono What he's done in the past is the epitome of gamesmanship and taking bad sportsmanship to a whole new level, sorry. I still feel sorry for Petzschner to this day as I firmly believe the way he was playing that day in Wimbledon 2010 and being up 2 sets to 1 before all those dubious MTOs he was going to win that match. Haase in the round before too had a good shot at a win before similar proceedings. Petzschner's career took a huge nosedive after that but who knows how he'd be playing if he'd been allowed to play on without any undue stoppages while fired up, hitting aces and mad forehands all over the place. It's a joke, sorry.

I do of course hope players stay injury free but I've no idea what that's supposedly got to do with taking a break for some hidden ailment that seemingly doesn't cause any difference whatsoever to how he runs before or after the MTOs. Oh and toilet breaks before your opponent serves for the match...very cool and sporting I'm sure you'll agree.

Sorry, there's no defense for his actions there. He knew exactly what he was doing there (toilet break at Indian Wells 2012) but thankfully Roger served out the match so that cunning plan didn't work out as he'd hoped. But MTOs have worked in his favour many times and, no, it's not sporting behaviour from a world number 1 or 2. Kinda fitting to be number 2 actually when that's what he takes before his opponent serves out the match. A load of number 2 is what that is.

Btw, he sure does put a lot of effort into what he does, namely finding any means necessary to win, bending every rule in the book. Stalling at the start of matches, between service points, timeouts that seem completely unjustified save for a select few, toilet breaks before his opponent serves to close out a match. Clearly a lot of time and effort does go into trying to win even when he's being soundly beaten.

Name me the last questionable Nadal medical time-out since 2010. It's almost been 4 years...maybe it's time to let that go.

I agree it's been a while but that doesn't excuse the past. RG 2011 btw with Fed at 5-2 first set. Not a full MTO but a stoppage none the less and Fed lost the set after being up 5-2 :nono

"*Nadal 2-5 Federer
We like to praise Rafa for incredible powers on clay, and rightly so. But Federer, lest we forget, grew up on clay and has been the second best player on the planet for some time. For the first time today, Nadal gets a look-in at 15-30 - only for Federer to shut the door with a third ace of the day. He puts away a forehand approach to extend his advantage and let's out a huge roar. Then comes the first pump and an "allez!". Nadal calls for the trainer... what's up? Off comes the sock to reveal heavy strapping on the Spaniard's left foot. Blisters? Hmmm... doesn't look good. He gets patched up then apologises to the umpire for taking so long. Encouraging signs for Federer and his fans in the stands are becoming increasingly vocal."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/tennis/9504906.stm

Uh, you do know this lasts a minute tops right?

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

Did anyone remember Delpo's timeout at the AO this year in his losing match? Didn't he have a shower? He got a pretty gentle pass on that. Now, if it were Nadal...

looks like tsar bomba ?..the most powerful nuclear bomb detonation ever. (1961).

 

[tented]

Did anyone remember Delpo's timeout at the AO this year in his losing match? Didn't he have a shower? He got a pretty gentle pass on that. Now, if it were Nadal...

looks like tsar bomba ?..the most powerful nuclear bomb detonation ever. (1961).

Fedfan International Headquarters, 21:15 BST, Sunday, July 6, 2008

 

[Moxie]

Come on, you're going crazy online here. Del Potro? You obviously didn't watch the match. Rafa asked for assistance after he'd just reached set point.

What about the MTO in the Wimbledon final in 2007, you always ignore that one. Why? Because you have an agenda and it doesn't square with this one.

You hate Rafa, we get it. But that's your problem, not his, or ours...

I don't have any agenda here. I as pointed out already I don't approve of any player abusing the rules or taking too long for a minor issue that didn't exist not only for the rest of the match, but the rest of the tournament. It's the umpire's fault but Rafa went along with it naturally enough, nice guy that he is. That MTO wouldn't have been needed if they saw to his absolutely destroyed beyond belief (not) foot at the change of ends after the set was over, which would've been the fairer thing to do I'm sure you'll agree.

I don't think you have an agenda, Front, per se, though you don't like Rafa. There you are within your rights, especially as a Roger man. However, I think you've bought into a narrative about Rafa that is out-sized compared to the amount it has been used, or to what deleterious effect. As TsarMatt points out, Del Potro took one at the USO, and nary a peep. In fact, Del Potro has injury issues, and the forums are generally sympathetic to him. Why? Because he's not as much of a threat, and the debate is between the Big 2-3 of our era for history.

I don't know if you noticed that I mentioned the MTO that Djokovic took after losing a set in the 2011 USO final. I know Roger rarely takes them, but he did in the 2005 AO SF v. Safin after losing the 4th set. He had his back worked on. Surely that was a heavy-hitting match. But gamesmanship? If it had been Nadal, you would have said yes. I'd say that top players who go deep into tournaments, year in and year out, probably suffer niggles worth looking at to keep a match going that needn't be match-enders. Rafa isn't the only one of the top guys who has availed himself of it.

 

[brokenshoelace]

The part about "I agree it's been awhile but that doesn't excuse his past MTO's" (with past referring to a period of 4 years ago or more) is a bit odd. Yeah, some of Nadal's MTO's were shady. But shouldn't the fact that he's stopped doing it for four years be enough to perhaps stop discussing it for 6 pages in 3 separate threads?

Front, I'm addressing you: OK, it doesn't excuse these past "mistakes" but what do you want him to do about it? Write a formal apology? Retire? He stopped doing it...isn't that enough? Or should an official change be made to the Federer-Nadal head to head based a medical time out in Hamburg and a little blister work at the French Open that didn't take anything over the usual change over time?

 

[TsarMatt]

Did anyone remember Delpo's timeout at the AO this year in his losing match? Didn't he have a shower? He got a pretty gentle pass on that. Now, if it were Nadal...

looks like tsar bomba ?..the most powerful nuclear bomb detonation ever. (1961).

Fedfan International Headquarters, 21:15 BST, Sunday, July 6, 2008

This guy has got it...