Is Federer the biggest choker among ATGs?

[MikeOne]

lol and you aren't repetitive at all. Hell the worst part of the Roger choke is that you are around here all week.

i'm not the one acting as if i'm better, you all are. It was a good one by Moxie... guess Moxie can throw in some jokes every now and then, without intending to do so.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Excellent idea for a poll :heart:

It was very difficult to decide between "yes" and "of course" but I ended up voting for the latter... B-)

 

[GameSetAndMath]

The following list of all matches lost by Federer after having a match point in it was compiled in March 2018. At that time, the list was 19 matches long. After that he has lost to Anderson in the QF of Wimbledon last year and to Novak in F of Wimbledon this year after wasting match points. Not sure whether he lost this way in any other match (probably not) since then. If so, he has lost 21 matches after having match points.As a result, one might think Roger is a choker.

However he has won 18 matches after saving at least one match point as you can see from this list. This list was made in June 2018 and I am not sure whether he won any matches after that in this fashion (after saving a match point).

Even though 21 is larger than 18, they are kind of comparable (in the sense that one is not too big than the other) and so we can call it even. After all, you win some and you lose some. So, we can give Roger a pass without calling him a choker.

However, it appears that Roger loses more important matches (GS matches and/or matches AT QF or later stages) after wasting matchpoints, while he seems to winning less important matches after saving matching points.

So, Roger is like a Pr...…..; He chokes on big ones.

 

[DarthFed]

The following list of all matches lost by Federer after having a match point in it was compiled in March 2018. At that time, the list was 19 matches long. After that he has lost to Anderson in the QF of Wimbledon last year and to Novak in F of Wimbledon this year after wasting match points. Not sure whether he lost this way in any other match (probably not) since then. If so, he has lost 21 matches after having match points.As a result, one might think Roger is a choker.

However he has won 18 matches after saving at least one match point as you can see from this list. This list was made in June 2018 and I am not sure whether he won any matches after that in this fashion (after saving a match point).

Even though 21 is larger than 18, they are kind of comparable (in the sense that one is not too big than the other) and so we can call it even. After all, you win some and you lose some. So, we can give Roger a pass without calling him a choker.

However, it appears that Roger loses more important matches (GS matches and/or matches AT QF or later stages) after wasting matchpoints, while he seems to winning less important matches after saving matching points.

So, Roger is like a Pr...…..; He chokes on big ones.

He lost MP's vs Thiem in Madrid this year, so it is 22.

One other really bad clutch stat for him has to be his record in decisive tiebreaks. I remember 11 off the top of my head and he is 3-8:

Won:
2014 Shanghai 2nd round vs Leo Mayer
2017 Miami SF vs Kyrgios
2018 Halle vs Paire

Lost:
2005 YEC final vs Nalbs
2006 Rome final vs Rafa
2007 Canada final vs Djoker
2010 Paris SF vs Monfils
2014 IW final vs Djoker
2015 Madrid vs Kyrgios
2018 Paris SF vs Djoker
2019 Wimbledon final vs Djoker

Obviously there are many more I'm not remembering but it's a pretty atrocious stat especially since it's the bigger ones he is always losing.

Edit: forgot a few vs Berd, won 2 and lost 1 in MS events. So up to 5-9, still awful.

 

[nehmeth]

Early in his career I would say Novak carried the chjoker mantle. And he still gets tight. Roger is 37 years old. He's still fit. He still hits well, but he definitely gets tight at the wrong moments. The longer Roger plays, I don't see it getting better.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Early in his career I would say Novak carried the chjoker mantle. And he still gets tight. Roger is 37 years old. He's still fit. He still hits well, but he definitely gets tight at the wrong moments. The longer Roger plays, I don't see it getting better.

Hopefully, the longer the others (Nadalovic) play, they will choke even bigger.

Then people will not call Roger a Choker.

 

[MikeOne]

Hopefully, the longer the others (Nadalovic) play, they will choke even bigger.

Then people will not call Roger a Choker.

Roger plays a different style now, he's much more offensive minded than he was back in 04-07. Back then he would often defuse opponents power by playing defense, he had more stamina and quicker. In pressure moments, he would at times just make opponents miss and at times take the risks, now he only takes the risks. Back then, he would probably feel more confident staying back, defending, rallying, turning defense into offense in opportune times. Now, he looks mainly attacks and this has it's pros and cons. He has had success vs Rafa in recent years precisely because he has been more offensive, the drawback is when matches get tight, the riskier brand of tennis can misfire when nerves are at play. It is similar to Sampras, who in his heyday stayed back, rallied, mainly came in behind 1st serves. In his later years, he was way too offensive, coming in behind 2nd serves, refusing to stay back during rallies. This misfired at times, like vs Hewitt in 2001 USO finals. At times, it paid off, like against agassi in 02 USO but it was a live and die by the winner type of thing. The 04-07 Federer would've been comfortable staying back vs Novak at 40-15, up match points, he would've stayed back, rallied, kept ball in play, waited for the right shot, defended. Today's Roger was just looking desperately to cut rally short... came in and hoped Djoker would succumb to pressure, didn't work.

 

[Moxie]

Hopefully, the longer the others (Nadalovic) play, they will choke even bigger.

Then people will not call Roger a Choker.

I think there is something to be said for losing more often with MPs, or at least blowing advantages, as they age. As the window of opportunity closes, the pressure mounts. I think anyone here not deliberately trolling could see that the pressure got to Roger on Sunday, in the 4th. Which doesn't have to take away from Djokovic, it just seems a fact that we could see. Something that gets forgotten in Roger's AO loss to Nadal in 2009 is that he was going for the #14 to tie Pete. He had all the pressure and Rafa essentially none in that match.

As well as the Big 3 have done at standing up to pressure, it's worth remembering that they're human. The nerves get to them, too.

 

[rafanoy1992]

I think there is something to be said for losing more often with MPs, or at least blowing advantages, as they age. As the window of opportunity closes, the pressure mounts. I think anyone here not deliberately trolling could see that the pressure got to Roger on Sunday, in the 4th. Which doesn't have to take away from Djokovic, it just seems a fact that we could see. Something that gets forgotten in Roger's AO loss to Nadal in 2009 is that he was going for the #14 to tie Pete. He had all the pressure and Rafa essentially none in that match.

As well as the Big 3 have done at standing up to pressure, it's worth remembering that they're human. The nerves get to them, too.

I agree Moxie! It is why in the past couple of years, sometimes Nadal gets broken when serving for the set or late in the set because their nerves and pressure gets to him.

Also, in most of the final, both players were nervous and tight as evidence of their baseline rallies. Federer was just slicing and changing the pace more often than not to see if Djokovic will make an unforced error. Same goes to Djokovic, I could tell he was very tight as he could not pull the trigger and just putting the ball on play to see if Federer will make an unforced error.

The only time Djokovic relaxed just a little bit was when he faced those two championship points. As for Federer, as soon his serve got broken, he probably knew deep inside that it will be an uphill battle to win the match. However, he still got break points on Djokovic's serve just right before the tiebreak. It just shows you that Federer still has an amazing fighting spirit even he did not convert those championship points on his serve.

 

[Ricardo]

He lost MP's vs Thiem in Madrid this year, so it is 22.

One other really bad clutch stat for him has to be his record in decisive tiebreaks. I remember 11 off the top of my head and he is 3-8:

Won:
2014 Shanghai 2nd round vs Leo Mayer
2017 Miami SF vs Kyrgios
2018 Halle vs Paire

Lost:
2005 YEC final vs Nalbs
2006 Rome final vs Rafa
2007 Canada final vs Djoker
2010 Paris SF vs Monfils
2014 IW final vs Djoker
2015 Madrid vs Kyrgios
2018 Paris SF vs Djoker
2019 Wimbledon final vs Djoker

Obviously there are many more I'm not remembering but it's a pretty atrocious stat especially since it's the bigger ones he is always losing.

Edit: forgot a few vs Berd, won 2 and lost 1 in MS events. So up to 5-9, still awful.

two more important ones, 2010 and 2011 USO vs Djoker though not tiebreaks. As he's done it quite a bit even when he was young, i'd say he always had that tendency when closing match points........which usually means he was the better player up to that point, then just didn't finish off as you would expect any great player to.

 

[DarthFed]

Early in his career I would say Novak carried the chjoker mantle. And he still gets tight. Roger is 37 years old. He's still fit. He still hits well, but he definitely gets tight at the wrong moments. The longer Roger plays, I don't see it getting better.

I don't think it's age for Roger. Repetition is king, and that goes for the good and the bad. Losing from match point up has happened so many times to him, especially in big moments, that it clearly is part of his tennis DNA at this point. He gets extremely tight and if he does lose match point/s usually the wheels completely fall off after that. If anyone thought Roger was still going to win that match once that game got to Deuce they haven't been paying attention all these years.

Also, these type of mental collapses tend to come in bunches. I remember telling fellow Fed fans last year after the Del Po loss in IW (blew 3 MP's on serve) that I was scared that the collapse would have a carryover effect. And sure enough Wimbledon against KA happened and he also had crazy collapse at USO vs. Milkman and even the loss to Tsitsipas at AO this year followed a similar script when he found a way to lose sets he had no business losing.

Unfortunately this disaster will probably have a similar effect.

 

[Michael;Kiwi]

I don't think it's age for Roger. Repetition is king, and that goes for the good and the bad. Losing from match point up has happened so many times to him, especially in big moments, that it clearly is part of his tennis DNA at this point. He gets extremely tight and if he does lose match point/s usually the wheels completely fall off after that. If anyone thought Roger was still going to win that match once that game got to Deuce they haven't been paying attention all these years.

Also, these type of mental collapses tend to come in bunches. I remember telling fellow Fed fans last year after the Del Po loss in IW (blew 3 MP's on serve) that I was scared that the collapse would have a carryover effect. And sure enough Wimbledon against KA happened and he also had crazy collapse at USO vs. Milkman and even the loss to Tsitsipas at AO this year followed a similar script when he found a way to lose sets he had no business losing.

Unfortunately this disaster will probably have a similar effect.

I definitely think that it has gotten into his head. However he did impressively to earn two break points at 11-11 which could have won him the match. Federer is very good at not letting earlier mistakes in a match get to him. Also, since losing to Tsitsipas he has had a very good year. He has to be the second favorite at the US Open. As long as this doesn’t affect him too badly, he should have a shot.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Also, these type of mental collapses tend to come in bunches. I remember telling fellow Fed fans last year after the Del Po loss in IW (blew 3 MP's on serve) that I was scared that the collapse would have a carryover effect. And sure enough Wimbledon against KA happened and he also had crazy collapse at USO vs. Milkman and even the loss to Tsitsipas at AO this year followed a similar script when he found a way to lose sets he had no business losing.

.

I agree that the loss to Tsitsipas is of similar variety.

The milkman loss is of totally different variety. Fed was overwhelmed by the sultry conditions. I had never seen Fed sweat so much. Also, he was never in a winning position (not to mention he never had match points) in that match.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Hopefully, the longer the others (Nadalovic) play, they will choke even bigger.

Then people will not call Roger a Choker.

While I doubt either will end up with Roger's number of blown matches after holding match points, I agree with this. With age, nerves/fatigue in key moments become a bigger issue. Though in fairness, their style of play is a little more consistent so they don't commit as many errors on those key points.

 

[DarthFed]

I definitely think that it has gotten into his head. However he did impressively to earn two break points at 11-11 which could have won him the match. Federer is very good at not letting earlier mistakes in a match get to him. Also, since losing to Tsitsipas he has had a very good year. He has to be the second favorite at the US Open. As long as this doesn’t affect him too badly, he should have a shot.

We will see, I don't have a good feeling about USO ever. It's too slow and high bouncing now, he hasn't done well there for a decade.

This loss can only hurt as he could easily start gagging in pressure moments going forward for the foreseeable future. Also, I wouldn't qualify this as a good year at all. He was a point away from potentially a great year, that's the way this sport is. Roger has been mostly poor this season.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Come on guys cheer up!

Federer accomplished 3 la decimas this year!

A 10th Halle title, a 10th loss in slams to Rafa and a 10th loss in slams to Nole!

 

[MikeOne]

It’s truly amazing. This man, darth, pollutes all threads with pretty much the same narrative - federer old, federer weak, federer awful, federer choked.. djokovic and nadal are just stiffs who just stand there, do nothing, roger can best then in his sleep if he wants to... strangely he doesn’t want to. God forbid prime federer could somehow be re-born.. rafa and djoker would be fighting for games!

 

[DarthFed]

Come on guys cheer up!

Federer accomplished 3 la decimas this year!

A 10th Halle title, a 10th loss in slams to Rafa and a 10th loss in slams to Nole!

And Rafa lost to a 38 year old. His man card should be revoked.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

And Rafa lost to a 38 year old. His man card should be revoked.

Big deal, who cares about the cow food surface. Rafa would still be beating everyone at RG even when he’s 50 yrs old

 

[DarthFed]

Big deal, who cares about the cow food surface. Rafa would still be beating everyone at RG even when he’s 50 yrs old

With his excellent training it is possible, but then so is organ failure. That and I always here about his poor poor knees.