General Doping/PEDs Discussion

[kskate2]

Lets hope so because some tennis fans were saying her rise from tennis doldrums has been too rapid.

I don't indulge in rumors. Only interested in facts. Besides, she just returned from OG where you all said the testing is more rigorous.

 

[tossip]

I don't indulge in rumors. Only interested in facts. Besides, she just returned from OG where you all said the testing is more rigorous.

I like Jasmine and she is the brightest part of present day women tennis...that's what I was saying that she can't be especially after the Olympics.

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

Well unfortunately, there is a big cloud over Italian sports with all the reports about Clostebol. Sinner getting caught with it in his system as well as several Italian athletes is bound to bring up questions about other athletes unfortunately.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Well unfortunately, there is a big cloud over Italian sports with all the reports about Clostebol. Sinner getting caught with it in his system as well as several Italian athletes is bound to bring up questions about other athletes unfortunately.

Until there is proof regarding Jasmine Paolini it is just rubbish and completely Unfounding and Defaming! As Kskate said previously on this post, I also ignore rumors and only accept actual facts on any player!

 

[the AntiPusher]

Really disappointed in Sinner and this doping business. Even in the most unintentional manner w/ a minimal amount found, this leaves a stain like what Draper did last week. Say what you will about Pova's motives, but she did get out in front of it by making her announcement. I guess I'm struggling to understand why Jannik and his team chose to hush this. He could have made a statement like Pova did and said they were fighting the test result, etc. Transparency as MM stated would have spoken volumes. Hushing this does no favors for anyone. Now, you still have to deal w/ the negative press but it looks like you had something to hide from the start.

Very simple Can't move the goal posts for Sinner regardless if! Too many others have been suspended and it's the player's responsibility regardless because they're the CEO of their corporation.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Please merge this thread with the Djokovic Fans thread... Thanks.

 

[Jelenafan]

Federer weighs in:

Federer questions process in 'tricky' Sinner case

Roger Federer thinks Jannik Sinner's doping case raises questions about whether the men's world No. 1 should have been allowed to continue competing until he was absolved of intentionally using an anabolic steroid he tested positive for twice in March.

www.espn.com

Has he been treated the same as others? And I think this is where it comes down to. We all trust pretty much at the end, he didn't do anything," Federer said Tuesday in an appearance on the "Today" show to promote a book of photos of him. "But the inconsistency, potentially, that he didn't have to sit out while they were not 100 percent sure what was going on -- I think that's the question here that needs to be answered."

 

[Fiero425]

Federer weighs in:

Federer questions process in 'tricky' Sinner case

Roger Federer thinks Jannik Sinner's doping case raises questions about whether the men's world No. 1 should have been allowed to continue competing until he was absolved of intentionally using an anabolic steroid he tested positive for twice in March.

www.espn.com

Weigh in? This was a huge deflection which Federer's admirers will call being "diplomatic!" It's more like a "wimp in" than anything! Typical Fed!

 

[Jelenafan]

Weigh in? This was a huge deflection which Federer's admirers will call being "diplomatic!" It's more like a "wimp in" than anything! Typical Fed!

I hearya, but Methuselah is sooo corporate speak even 2+ years into retirement that even questioning the protocol as he did here is the equivalent of blockading the streets of Paris , ; ) LOL

 

[Nadalfan2013]

This was the process:

- ATP: Sinner you have been caught with PED, we have to suspend you!
- Sinner: But Djokovic has been doing it since 2011 and he's still allowed to play!
- ATP: Good point, okay carry on and best of luck at the USO.

Spoiler

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

I am confused as to why it is so hard to come up with a consistent protocol to apply to players. The bottom line is accident or no: don’t test positive for banned substances and then you won’t face any consequences. The truth is even if it is an “accident” the player is still responsible and deserves consequences whether it was poor choice in hiring someone or outright doping.

I think once the body has received the positive result they should alert the player and say you have a week to get together your PR before we go public. You will be banned for a month to get your evidence together to present a month after the positive test. If you need longer to present or collect your evidence then that is on you, but you will not be able to play tennis until the court proceedings go through and a decision rendered.

 

[lomaha]

What I fail to understand is why Sinner choose to work with the man who appareantly gave him the drug right up till he was cleared (almost 6 months). And THEN he fired him?

 

[Fiero425]

What I fail to understand is why Sinner choose to work with the man who appareantly gave him the drug right up till he was cleared (almost 6 months). And THEN he fired him?

In criminal circumstances/parlance, the term more familiar w/b "taking the rap!" Maybe he was paid quite handsomely to keep his mouth shut!

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

In criminal circumstances/parlance, the term more familiar w/b "taking the rap!" Maybe he was paid quite handsomely to keep his mouth shut!

LOL

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

What I fail to understand is why Sinner choose to work with the man who appareantly gave him the drug right up till he was cleared (almost 6 months). And THEN he fired him?

Interesting, I didn’t know this. It certainly makes it more suspect. If someone brings that into my camp whether intentional or not, I would have let you go. The optics aren’t good there.

 

[Moxie]

@Front242 As I said, I am taking the conversation about doping over here. You say that some here have condemned Halep, yet ignore Sinner. I'm not sure how everyone has netted out on each, and I'm not interested in doing the side-by-side comparison. So I'm not sure who specifically might have double-standards. The cases are different, though. The drug was different. Halep not only tested positive for Roxadustat (more than once, I think,) she had irregularities on her biological passport. She claims it came from a supplement, but she had failed to list that supplement, as she was required to do. The ITIA didn't think a supplement could account for the amount of the substance in her test.

Sinner tested positive from "trace" amounts of Closebol, which is sold over-the-counter in Italy. His explanation for how it got into his system seems plausible, including to many players. I know you've told us, in your position as amateur PED doctor around here, how it can degrade in the system, and can be used to hide, or top-off (sorry if I got this part wrong) other steroids. This is conjecture, on your part. But it's enough to convince you.

IMO, you're the one with double-standards. You campaigned for years around here that Nadal was a doper, based purely on your anecdotal evidence. Not one positive doping result. And yet, when similar circumstances arose regarding Federer's renewed fitness, at 35, even stronger circumstantial evidence, I would argue, you would not entertain for one second that it might look dodgy, on its face. Instead, just insisting it was the bigger racquet head, and a stronger backhand, even though you never questioned how, at 35, his backhand finally got stronger. I will say again: I don't think that Roger doped to have his late career Renaissance. It just bothers me that you refused to apply the same circumstantial evidence to him that you tried to lay on Nadal for years. Especially when most of it was silly with re: to a younger man.

I still think, as Federer does, that the biggest problem with the Sinner case is the appearance (and likely existence) of preferential treatment. His case was expedited and his story believed, when Stefano Battaglino, under similar circumstances, received a 4-year ban.

 

[Jelenafan]

@Front242 As I said, I am taking the conversation about doping over here. You say that some here have condemned Halep, yet ignore Sinner. I'm not sure how everyone has netted out on each, and I'm not interested in doing the side-by-side comparison. So I'm not sure who specifically might have double-standards. The cases are different, though. The drug was different. Halep not only tested positive for Roxadustat (more than once, I think,) she had irregularities on her biological passport. She claims it came from a supplement, but she had failed to list that supplement, as she was required to do. The ITIA didn't think a supplement could account for the amount of the substance in her test.

Sinner tested positive from "trace" amounts of Closebol, which is sold over-the-counter in Italy. His explanation for how it got into his system seems plausible, including to many players. I know you've told us, in your position as amateur PED doctor around here, how it can degrade in the system, and can be used to hide, or top-off (sorry if I got this part wrong) other steroids. This is conjecture, on your part. But it's enough to convince you.

IMO, you're the one with double-standards. You campaigned for years around here that Nadal was a doper, based purely on your anecdotal evidence. Not one positive doping result. And yet, when similar circumstances arose regarding Federer's renewed fitness, at 35, even stronger circumstantial evidence, I would argue, you would not entertain for one second that it might look dodgy, on its face. Instead, just insisting it was the bigger racquet head, and a stronger backhand, even though you never questioned how, at 35, his backhand finally got stronger. I will say again: I don't think that Roger doped to have his late career Renaissance. It just bothers me that you refused to apply the same circumstantial evidence to him that you tried to lay on Nadal for years. Especially when most of it was silly with re: to a younger man.

I still think, as Federer does, that the biggest problem with the Sinner case is the appearance (and likely existence) of preferential treatment. His case was expedited and his story believed, when Stefano Battaglino, under similar circumstances, received a 4-year ban.

The problem with your rationale Moxie is that Sinner DID test positive for a banned substance.

That is not conjecture or assumption.

 

[Moxie]

The problem with your rationale Moxie is that Sinner DID test positive for a banned substance.

That is not conjecture or assumption.

I understand that. I was attempting to cover a lot of ground in one post.

However, I did address the differences between Halep's case and Sinner's, for example. I do find them different. Do you not? Is is black and white for you?

 

[mrzz]

ven though you never questioned how, at 35, his backhand finally got stronger.

The backhand got even better, not stronger. You are the greatest defense lawyer in the world, as you can say with a straight face that is reasonable that a guy got doped himself to get a better backhand. Or, even better actually, a stronger backhand while the forehand at best remained the same (or weaker). One sided doping, it is never caught if the player uses the other arm to collect blood (not sure what he to do to piss though).

 

[Jelenafan]

I understand that. I was attempting to cover a lot of ground in one post.

However, I did address the differences between Halep's case and Sinner's, for example. I do find them different. Do you not? Is is black and white for you?

All I’m saying is that the Nadal & Federer admittedly different examples implied doping was an assumption. Sinner’s is not an assumption.

To me the black & white is either you have it in your doping tests or you do not.

Minute traces is still having a banned substance in your body. That it’s easily available for use in Italy IMO is