General Doping/PEDs Discussion

[MargaretMcAleer]

Apparently they did read the full report. In this instance, you will have your opinion and they will have theirs.

I am not disupting that thanks, I said it was my opinion he isnt a doper and people can have their opinions as well

 

[kskate2]

I wouldn't say "we" all do.

Anyone who's failed a test is fair game to be discussed in this or any other doping thread.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

My point is I've seen many of your posts agreeing that Halep was doping. I know it sucks as he's an Italian player but Halep was cleared too and I think most know that she should've received a 4 year ban. Just citing this as a recent example since this clearing of highly ranked players is commonplace. The nobodies, however, get banned like Battaglino and Lepchenko.

I said to you if I thought he was doping I would call him out? regardless if he was Italian or not I dont think he is dopng that is your opinion not mine

 

[Front242]

I didn't post it exclusively for you. It was also for Front and anyone else interested in this conversation. Sheesh.

I saw it on tennis.com too.

 

[Moxie]

Thanks Moxie
Yes it could have been averted his team should have been more careful with the spray oil which was banned in the first place
I am confident Sinner did not know the oil spray they used was banned if he did he would not use it

Actually, if you go back to the Tennis.com article, it says that Sinner was aware, and cautious about it. It says that the physio was being incautious about it, as in, applying it to himself, yet to washing his hands or applying gloves when massaging Sinner.

I do still think there can be a slight carelessness when something topical like that is used regularly in your country.

 

[don_fabio]

Why would they cover up something like this and reveal it almost 6 months later. The rules definitely don't apply the same to everyone.

I like Sinner and I believe in what he and his team say, but that's not the point. They let him off the hook rather easily and all done behind the closed doors.

 

[kskate2]

Well, I'll be the first to say I don't think he intentionally took anything, but the rules have to be applied evenly. We cited that Halep, Cough Drop and others all claimed they didn't knowingly take anything, that it was contaminated or mis-labeled, etc. There's no excuse for failing a test, even by a micro millimeter. After seeing what happened w/ Pova and Halep, Yannik has the $ to pay someone to verify all his treatments, etc are above board.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Actually, if you go back to the Tennis.com article, it says that Sinner was aware, and cautious about it. It says that the physio was being incautious about it, as in, applying it to himself, yet to washing his hands or applying gloves when massaging Sinner.

I do still think there can be a slight carelessness when something topical like that is used regularly in your country.

I agree i said in my post to you not wearing gloves, it was 100% careless, BTW I dont live there anymore and I can assure you we here use strict rules when it comes to hand washing etc in Sydney

 

[Moxie]

Why would they cover up something like this and reveal it almost 6 months later. The rules definitely don't apply the same to everyone.

I like Sinner and I believe in what he and his team say, but that's not the point. They let him off the hook rather easily and all done behind the closed doors.

This is where the ATP and other tennis bodies fall down. WADA, too. They never report testing when a positive shows up. They deal with it all in secret, then come out with a pronouncement. Or not. I get protecting an athlete before time to adjudicate it, but it always makes it feel secretive enough to be nefarious, which leaves room for folks like Front to decide that it wasn't tonsillitis that kept Sinner out of the Olympics.

Here's another question: why strip Sinner of his points and money, when finding him essentially innocent of wrongdoing? It's all so loosey-goosey.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

This is where the ATP and other tennis bodies fall down. WADA, too. They never report testing when a positive shows up. They deal with it all in secret, then come out with a pronouncement. Or not. I get protecting an athlete before time to adjudicate it, but it always makes it feel secretive enough to be nefarious, which leaves room for folks like Front to decide that it wasn't tonsillitis that kept Sinner out of the Olympics.

Here's another question: why strip Sinner of his points and money, when finding him essentially innocent of wrongdoing? It's all so loosey-goosey.

Seeing he was cleared his points should be given back and the money in my view

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

This is where the ATP and other tennis bodies fall down. WADA, too. They never report testing when a positive shows up. They deal with it all in secret, then come out with a pronouncement. Or not. I get protecting an athlete before time to adjudicate it, but it always makes it feel secretive enough to be nefarious, which leaves room for folks like Front to decide that it wasn't tonsillitis that kept Sinner out of the Olympics.

Here's another question: why strip Sinner of his points and money, when finding him essentially innocent of wrongdoing? It's all so loosey-goosey.

There needs to be more transparency full stop with Wada, ITF and the ATP
Secrecy always proves doubt in everyone minds

 

[Moxie]

Well, I'll be the first to say I don't think he intentionally took anything, but the rules have to be applied evenly. We cited that Haelp, Cough Drop and others all claimed they didn't knowingly take anything, that it was contaminated or mis-labeled, etc. There's no excuse for failing a test, even by a micro millimeter. After seeing what happened w/ Pova and Halep, Yannik has the $ to pay someone to verify all his treatments, etc are above board.

Front's point, in fairness to him, is that they don't seem to be applied evenly, in terms of the 400+ ranked Italian. I read the judgement he posted, and the only thing I didn't see was how much was in his system, compared to Sinner's. His argument was much the same, but he has a 4-year ban. That seems less a case of having the money to pay someone to make sure that all of your treatments are above-board, than having the money and power to pay someone to argue your case, when you get a bad test. Or two. It's a bad look for tennis, I'll say that.

 

[don_fabio]

Here's another question: why strip Sinner of his points and money, when finding him essentially innocent of wrongdoing? It's all so loosey-goosey.

Maybe they don't want it to look too easy, so they pinned something to him. But it doesn't add up, it's contradictory to his clearance. Maybe because it was still failed tests.

 

[Moxie]

Maybe they don't want it to look too easy, so they pinned something to him. But it doesn't add up, it's contradictory to his clearance. Maybe because it was still failed tests.

I think it must be that. You fail the tests, you lose your points and money, even if deemed inadvertent, in the end. A warning, a fine, but not a ban.

 

[Front242]

Front's point, in fairness to him, is that they don't seem to be applied evenly, in terms of the 400+ ranked Italian. I read the judgement he posted, and the only thing I didn't see was how much was in his system, compared to Sinner's. His argument was much the same, but he has a 4-year ban. That seems less a case of having the money to pay someone to make sure that all of your treatments are above-board, than having the money and power to pay someone to argue your case, when you get a bad test. Or two. It's a bad look for tennis, I'll say that.

Ranked 700! That's why he was thrown under the bus and for the EXACT same drug and blame the physio for a massage story.

 

[Moxie]

Ranked 700! That's why he was thrown under the bus and for the EXACT same drug and blame the physio for a massage story.

OK, surely that makes a difference...400 v. 700. LOL, Front! What you don't know is how much they found in his sample, which I didn't find in that document you posted. Did you see it? Still, I agree...4 years v. a slap on the wrist seems draconian and unfair. Shall I guess that that guy's case will be getting a review?

You also poo-pooed the Gasquet cocaine defense, which I actually buy.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

In 2016, the ITF announced it would publicly announce 'adverse findings' if a player was provisionally suspended
Per the policy, if a player didnt accept a provisional suspension the positive test woldnt be made public until a resolution was reached

 

[don_fabio]

Ranked 700! That's why he was thrown under the bus and for the EXACT same drug and blame the physio for a massage story.

How much of the substance his blood test showed? I guess we'll never know, but it could help in determining if his ban was fair or not?

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

BTW ITIA enforces the anti doping program on behalf of ATP, WTA ITF and GS.

 

[Front242]

OK, surely that makes a difference...400 v. 700. LOL, Front! What you don't know is how much they found in his sample, which I didn't find in that document you posted. Did you see it? Still, I agree...4 years v. a slap on the wrist seems draconian and unfair. Shall I guess that that guy's case will be getting a review?

You also poo-pooed the Gasquet cocaine defense, which I actually buy.

Cocaine isn't performance enhancing in any way whatsoever for sports in any case.