General Doping/PEDs Discussion

[Front242]

Maybe Front has some of idea of how something could be undetectable

Xenon and Argon gas still are I believe. Probably what he's puffing for increased red blood cell count for cardio. Tons of footballers use it and it's why there's a laughable amount of athletes claiming to have asthma to get a TUE for an inhaler.

 

[TheSicilian]

Maybe Front has some of idea of how something could be undetectable

https://fmahealth.org/dilute-urine-for-drug-test/

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Xenon and Argon gas still are I believe. Probably what he's puffing for increased red blood cell count for cardio. Tons of footballers use it and it's why there's a laughable amount of athletes claiming to have asthma to get a TUE for an inhaler.

Wouldnt Novak have to reveal what type of Asmtha medication he is using say to the ATP for clearance?

 

[Kieran]

He had ages off tour to work on timing and sharpness.

“Ages off tour” only ages an ageing player even more…

 

[Front242]

Wouldnt Novak have to reveal what type of Asmtha medication he is using say to the ATP for clearance?

Definitely but they bend the rules at the top clearly unless you're from a country they don't like. Sure I posted a photo years ago which I can't find anymore but it was of Venus Williams pictured carrying her inhaler into the bathroom after losing the first set 6-0. Her opponent won only 1 more game after that...

Debilitating autoimmune disease!

 

[Front242]

“Ages off tour” only ages an ageing player even more…

Have you seen Stan's results lately? After foot surgery and even more "ages off tour" and he's ancient. Novak has barely played much all year and is an ageing player. Ageing pretty well going by his results. If you're an elite player and practicing constantly while off tour it's clearly enough.

*Cough* 2 of Nadal's best years 2010 and 2013 after his performance enhancing PRP treatments in 2009 and 2012. He was ages off tour also...came back like superman. 13 finals in 14 tournaments in 2013.

 

[Moxie]

Have you seen Stan's results lately? After foot surgery and even more "ages off tour" and he's ancient. Novak has barely played much all year and is an ageing player. Ageing pretty well going by his results. If you're an elite player and practicing constantly while off tour it's clearly enough.

*Cough* 2 of Nadal's best years 2010 and 2013 after his performance enhancing PRP treatments in 2009 and 2012. He was ages off tour also...came back like superman. 13 finals in 14 tournaments in 2013.

Nadal's knee treatments were fully exposed and vetted. And *cough*, Rafa was 22/23 in 2009, and 26/27 in 2013. Came back like a "Superman?" He took 4 months to win his first Major in 2013, after he went back to work, and a year after his previous one. Roger won his first Major after his layoff immediately, with no tune-up, and at 35. Having won no Major for 4 1/2 years. I'd be cautious with that "came back like a Superman." Or is it really just because Roger is so preternaturally talented, in your opinion? He knew he needed a better backhand to beat Rafa for some 9, at least, years, and yet he found it at 35. Either he's not as smart as you think, or not as talented, if it took that long. One thing you never factor into your accusations, particularly of young players, is motivation. They're young, strong, recover like nothing, and have their careers ahead of them. The motivation comes in late, as the windows are closing, if you ask me.

 

[TheSicilian]

So ridiculous! Novak loses 1 match since Wimbledon and he's considered ancient or "aging off the tour!" RIdiculous! He won 3 Majors last season! Those idiots on TCC keep referencing The Laver Cup matches which is even more ridiculous of them as they played on the tour! The LC is little more than a glorified exhibition! It just shouldn't count in the H2H! I seem to remember Novak losing 2 LC matches in 2018 after his huge comeback! He went on on to collect 7 majors since then! This shortened season might even be rejuvenating for all we know after such a tough 2021 being a match from a CYGS and defeat at the Olympics!

Kieran was talking about Federer not Djokovic in that post

 

[Front242]

Nadal's knee treatments were fully exposed and vetted. And *cough*, Rafa was 22/23 in 2009, and 26/27 in 2013. Came back like a "Superman?" He took 4 months to win his first Major in 2013, after he went back to work, and a year after his previous one. Roger won his first Major after his layoff immediately, with no tune-up, and at 35. Having won no Major for 4 1/2 years. I'd be cautious with that "came back like a Superman." Or is it really just because Roger is so preternaturally talented, in your opinion? He knew he needed a better backhand to beat Rafa for some 9, at least, years, and yet he found it at 35. Either he's not as smart as you think, or not as talented, if it took that long. One thing you never factor into your accusations, particularly of young players, is motivation. They're young, strong, recover like nothing, and have their careers ahead of them. The motivation comes in late, as the windows are closing, if you ask me.

He's stubborn as fuck and that's also why he took way too long to change to the bigger racquet. It is what it is but he should have changed racquets and started to hit the backhand with more aggression and less slice years ago. Fully exposed and vetted? So you can prove he didn't have any growth factors injected? Back to Roger, he was almost always there at the semis or finals and of course it can only take something as basic as changing strategy or improving your weaknesses (backhand) to beat an opponent. A few points determine everything. Just look at Wimbledon 2019 final.

 

[Fiero425]

He's stubborn as fuck and that's also why he took way too long to change to the bigger racquet. It is what it is but he should have changed racquets and started to hit the backhand with more aggression and less slice years ago. Fully exposed and vetted? So you can prove he didn't have any growth factors injected? Back to Roger, he was almost always there at the semis or finals and of course it can only take something as basic as changing strategy or improving your weaknesses (backhand) to beat an opponent. A few points determine everything. Just look at Wimbledon 2019 final.

By the final, ir was Roger's forehand that was a bit wild & that's where UFE's cost him; esp. in those TB's; 3 of them! He had 11 UFE to Nole's 0!

 

[Front242]

By the final, ir was Roger's forehand that was a bit wild & that's where UFE's cost him; esp. in those TB's; 3 of them! He had 11 UFE to Nole's 0!

Well I was alluding more to the 2 wasted match points but, yeah, the tiebreaks he played sucked royally! He was ahead in all key stats and still lost.

 

[Moxie]

Interesting. People who say that are probably just trying to downplay Nadal's achievement. As it's a ridiculous argument as Nadal beat Djokovic in 2013 final too. I see a lot in sports football especially or soccer Some individual players or teams transform extremely quickly it's hard to not ask questions. Take a look at this site it's mainly football but near the bottom New Balls Please about tennis is quite an interesting few paragraphs. https://backpagefootball.com/sure-theyre-all-at-it-are-you-entertained-part-2/127087/

Yes, it's clearly meant to downplay Rafa's achievement. Look at Fiero's post even just above. He's still trying to slog the notion that Rafa has an "unbalanced" resume. Plenty of Novak and Roger fan's try to pretend that what Rafa did to Novak prior to 2011 sort of "doesn't count." And they like to ignore that, even though Novak is the HC man, Rafa has more USO wins, including 2 over Novak in finals. And, I'm sorry, but both count.

I read the link you added. If there's any truth to it, I do think it's about people trying to survive in the top 100-200. The female player quoted was unnamed?

 

[Fiero425]

Yes, it's clearly meant to downplay Rafa's achievement. Look at Fiero's post even just above. He's still trying to slog the notion that Rafa has an "unbalanced" resume. Plenty of Novak and Roger fan's try to pretend that what Rafa did to Novak prior to 2011 sort of "doesn't count." And they like to ignore that, even though Novak is the HC man, Rafa has more USO wins, including 2 over Novak in finals. And, I'm sorry, but both count.

I read link you added. If there's any truth to it, I do think it's about people trying to survive in the top 100-200. The female player quoted was unnamed?

When have I ever said any events before 2011 don't count? That would be the epitome of being a homer trying to undermine another player! The hardcore supporters of Federer for years made it like the H2H between him & Rafa had to do w/ most of their matches being played on clay! That wasn't why Roger was owned by the kid from day one! He's lucky to get it close in their later contests while Nole on the shelf in 2017!

 

[Moxie]

He's stubborn as fuck and that's also why he took way too long to change to the bigger racquet. It is what it is but he should have changed racquets and started to hit the backhand with more aggression and less slice years ago.

Again with the "stubborn."

Fully exposed and vetted? So you can prove he didn't have any growth factors injected?

No, but I can prove that he told the governing powers what he was doing. That is worthy of belief, and about as translucent as you can be. You can keep disbelieving it, but then you're rather a flat-earther: no amount of proof will convince you. Your proof about Roger is that he's just "stubborn," which is why, after all of those years, he only improved his strength on his back hand after a 7-month layoff, at 35 years old.

Back to Roger, he was almost always there at the semis or finals and of course it can only take something as basic as changing strategy or improving your weaknesses (backhand) to beat an opponent. A few points determine everything. Just look at Wimbledon 2019 final.

This still doesn't explain why it took him until 35-years-old to make the adjustment. I do actually believe that he had time to finally adjust to the new stick. But do you see how you endlessly excuse Roger, and keep blaming teenagers, even now? It's blinkered and childish. You want others to be wrong, and Roger to be the GOAT. You were perfectly happy for Novak 2.0 to rise up to the challenge of Nadal, when he was blocking him for Roger, up until he became a threat, himself. You were quite late to the party on the oxygen egg. And now you're all over him. But not in 2011/2012, etc.

 

[Moxie]

When have I ever said any events before 2011 don't count? That would be the epitome of being a homer trying to undermine another player! The hardcore supporters of Federer for years made it like the H2H between him & Rafa had to do w/ most of their matches being played on clay! That wasn't why Roger was owned by the kid from day one! He's lucky to get it close in their later contests while Nole on the shelf in 2017!

I didn't single you out as saying that the 2010 USO final didn't count, but tell me no one ever said that. It has been dismissed as not a real test of their rivalry, and I beg to differ. If you agree with me that it is, then fine.

 

[Fiero425]

I didn't single you out as saying that the 2010 USO final didn't count, but tell me no one ever said that. It has been dismissed as not a real test of their rivalry, and I beg to differ. If you agree with me that it is, then fine.

Novak would have to delete a ton of nice wins over Fedal starting 2007 winning an early Masters, then AO & YEC in '08! That wouldn't be me!

 

[Kieran]

Have you seen Stan's results lately? After foot surgery and even more "ages off tour" and he's ancient. Novak has barely played much all year and is an ageing player. Ageing pretty well going by his results. If you're an elite player and practicing constantly while off tour it's clearly enough.

*Cough* 2 of Nadal's best years 2010 and 2013 after his performance enhancing PRP treatments in 2009 and 2012. He was ages off tour also...came back like superman. 13 finals in 14 tournaments in 2013.

You say “performance enhancing” there as if you were talking about something illegal. I might start to throw that into remarks about players using new rackets, or having “performance enhancing” towels courtside to wipe off the sweat.

But another aspect of the taking “ages” that applies to Roger is that he had also “taken ages” since he’d won his previous slam - 5 years - then he takes “ages off” and returns to the sport 5 years younger again. Your methods of deduction really are precise but fairly damning, and you leave me no other option but to agree with you, though it makes me fairly disappointed in Mister Federer, I might take ages to recover from it…

 

[Front242]

Again with the "stubborn."

No, but I can prove that he told the governing powers what he was doing. That is worthy of belief, and about as translucent as you can be. You can keep disbelieving it, but then you're rather a flat-earther: no amount of proof will convince you. Your proof about Roger is that he's just "stubborn," which is why, after all of those years, he only improved his strength on his back hand after a 7-month layoff, at 35 years old.

This still doesn't explain why it took him until 35-years-old to make the adjustment. I do actually believe that he had time to finally adjust to the new stick. But do you see how you endlessly excuse Roger, and keep blaming teenagers, even now? It's blinkered and childish. You want others to be wrong, and Roger to be the GOAT. You were perfectly happy for Novak 2.0 to rise up to the challenge of Nadal, when he was blocking him for Roger, up until he became a threat, himself. You were quite late to the party on the oxygen egg. And now you're all over him. But not in 2011/2012, etc.

Look you think Roger was doping and I know Nadal was. It's obvious. Let's leave it at that.

 

[Jelenafan]

Look you think Roger was doping and I know Nadal was. It's obvious. Let's leave it at that.

Lets cut the BS.

Federer beyond juiced* in 2017.

* based on the criteria used for every other player & especially Federites vis-a-vis Nadal.

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

Honestly, anyone on tour could be taking something that is perfectly legal by drug test standards, but it does indeed help with performance enhancement. I mean Sharapova was taking a drug that had enhancements that was perfectly legal until they added it to the banned substance list. The same could probably be said for many on tour taking drugs that haven’t been banned yet.