General Doping/PEDs Discussion

[Front242]

Who did 4 weeks in a row? Rune had a week off after Sofia. And he’s 19 years old! He could have gone clubbing virtually every night and still played.

Federer has had similar runs when he was even older.

Federer spiked in 2017. He hadn’t won a slam in five years and then he won 3 in 13 months. He hadn’t beaten Nadal in a slam since 2007, and he’d been beaten progressively easier by Rafa in 3 previous Australian Open matches.

He rose back to number one in the world and began to win back to back long matches for the first time in his career.

Now, I’m not saying Roger was doping - you are! After all, I’m only applying your methods here…

As I mentioned already he never manned up on his backhand till 2017. Hence why he lost so many matches in lame fashion and big kudos to Ljubicic as I've posted many times for massively improving his backhand and stopping him from being pinned like a clown in the corner with his previously weak backhand. The main guy beating him was Novak who was also absent in 2017 so there are a lot of variables to consider besides doping.

 

[Kieran]

As I mentioned already he never manned up on his backhand till 2017. Hence why he lost so many matches in lame fashion and big kudos to Ljubicic as I've posted many times for massively improving his backhand and stopping him from being pinned like a clown in the corner with his previously weak backhand. The main guy beating him was Novak who was also absent in 2017 so there are a lot of variables to consider besides doping.

Of course, but even the fitness required to improve so hugely on the backhand, the timing and sharpness required, using your own methods of analysing these things, it’s hard to see how that can be done naturally. Fella became a beast.

Have you reconsidered more about Rune, now that you’re aware that he actually took a week off during his run of 4 finals?

 

[Moxie]

Of course, but even the fitness required to improve so hugely on the backhand, the timing and sharpness required, using your own methods of analysing these things, it’s hard to see how that can be done naturally. Fella became a beast.

Have you reconsidered more about Rune, now that you’re aware that he actually took a week off during his run of 4 finals?

It's maddening to me that Front has always suspected teenagers of doping, for all of their boundless energy, but with Roger, it's just about "good coaching," even at 35-36. Again, not accusing anyone, but the double-think is amazing. It comes down to what Broken once called out as the arrogance of Federer Fans...they believe so completely in his talent, but not so much in the talent of others.

 

[Moxie]

I'm not talking about anyone in particular here. I'm just saying any time an athlete improves in a short time some people will ask questions. Go on any tennis doping site and you will find tons of players accused of doping.

It's true that in all sports an unusual leap in form is reason for suspicion, especially later-career. I know you're not talking specifically about Novak, but I will repeat a point I have made before: often, when I have made the point that Rafa beat Novak in the final at the USO in 2010, some people like to say, "well, that wasn't Novak 2.0 yet." My answer to that is that he WAS Novak 2.0 just 4.5 months later, so you can't have it both ways, or you are implying something you don't want to. As far as I can see, Novak beat Roger on the Saturday, but wasn't quite there to beat Rafa the next day. But a lot of the rest of 2010 went into consolidating his belief/confidence/game.

OK, fair enough.

I'm just pointing out development usually doesn't happen linearly: meaning, getting a bit better in a consistent fashion over time. The norm is that players have breakthroughs - things click, and they take a big leap forward, and we shouldn't assume this is because of steroids, when in fact it is just how most players develop.

This is actually synonymous with a concept from evolutionary biology: punctuated equilibrium, in which evolution involves long periods of stability punctuated by evolutionary jumps.

When players develop, it is sort of like climbing a multi-story building, but hanging out at least level for awhile (consolidation). Eventually all players plateau at a "peak," beyond which they won't improve further. This usually occurs somewhere in the age 22-25 range (give or take). In rare cases, it happens later, and a player finds another gear in their later 20s, perhaps through getting more serious or fixing an ongoing problem (e.g. Stan Wawrinka).

IMO, the best candidate for Stan-esque late 20s jump is Nick Kyrgios. The talent is there, but whether or not he'll take things seriously enough to maximize his talent remains to be seen.

If anyone wants to be suspicious, it should be of Wawrinka, especially as he is such an outlier in all of your tables. But those of us who watched him in real time could see how it could happen. And yes, I agree that Nick might just make that late-career jump, if he can stay interested.

 

[TheSicilian]

15 million views

 

[tossip]

Joko has some explaining to do about the drink he got from his camp during the semifinal match.I have always not trusted him,first it was the oxygen chamber now this..come on

 

[the AntiPusher]

Joko has some explaining to do about the drink he got from his camp during the semifinal match.I have always not trusted him,first it was the oxygen chamber now this..come on

I just watched the video thoroughly... there's something going On ..the dude in the black shirt is most definitely trying to obstruct the view from the.public

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I just watched the video thoroughly... there's something going On ..the dude in the black shirt is most definitely trying to obstruct the view from the.public

Actually that incident was shown on our sports show here in Sydney, a lot of journalists from the different area's of sport, though it was quite strange the way Novak's team were hiding what they were doing? though they did say it is not unusual for coaches etc to pass a drink to their player on court, it was the way they were doing it was strange?

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Joko has some explaining to do about the drink he got from his camp during the semifinal match.I have always not trusted him,first it was the oxygen chamber now this..come on

You mean 'the egg chamber" lol! it is usually used by high altitude athletes to use in their recovery .

 

[Fiero425]

I just watched the video thoroughly... there's something going On ..the dude in the black shirt is most definitely trying to obstruct the view from the.public

Shocking! Nole's people probably thought people would go fk'n nuts and try to concoct some nefarious reason why he's still playing so good in his mid 30's even though Roger played until he was almost 40! The hypocrisy is mind-numbing, but this is the world we live in! We're all FOS and look to undermine accomplishments! I even do it with Nadal! Even though Nadal's career is not balanced with the majority of his success on clay, he still owns 22 Majors! I have more respect for Fedovic who had success over all surfaces including several YEC's which Rafa's never gotten a sniff of after all these years!

 

[tossip]

You mean 'the egg chamber" lol! it is usually used by high altitude athletes to use in their recovery .

Is it legal to have that unfair advantage.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Is it legal to have that unfair advantage.

Novak is not 'cheating' or having an unfair advantage, I mean other players can also use it for recovery, as I said in my previous post, it is usually used by athletes, cycylists, long distance runners that train in mountain area's, high altitiudes,skiers also, for their recovery.

 

[tossip]

Novak is not 'cheating' or having an unfair advantage, I mean other players can also use it for recovery, as I said in my previous post, it is usually used by athletes, cycylists, long distance runners that train in mountain area's, high altitiudes,skiers also, for their recovery.

Pova did the same thing is at The USA Open and nobody said anything.The year she won the title,Yuri gestured to her to eat a banana and take a sip.She went into her bag a took out a small brown bottle,took a swig and then ate her banana.The commentary box conveniently laughed it off.Thank goodness she was eventually caught.Joko is a player that never gets tired....

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Pova did the same thing is at The USA Open and nobody said anything.The year she won the title,Yuri gestured to her to eat a banana and take a sip.She went into her bag a took out a small brown bottle,took a swig and then ate her banana.The commentary box conveniently laughed it off.Thank goodness she was eventually caught.Joko is a player that never gets tired....

I take your point with Pova. Novak would get tested quite often as yet none of his urine samples have tested positive.

 

[Front242]

Of course, but even the fitness required to improve so hugely on the backhand, the timing and sharpness required, using your own methods of analysing these things, it’s hard to see how that can be done naturally. Fella became a beast.

Have you reconsidered more about Rune, now that you’re aware that he actually took a week off during his run of 4 finals?

He had ages off tour to work on timing and sharpness. No, Rune is very suss and mostly cos he works with Mouratoglou.

 

[TheSicilian]

Novak is not 'cheating' or having an unfair advantage, I mean other players can also use it for recovery, as I said in my previous post, it is usually used by athletes, cycylists, long distance runners that train in mountain area's, high altitiudes,skiers also, for their recovery.

Someone once said it's legal but against the spirit of sport

 

[the AntiPusher]

I take your point with Pova. Novak would get tested quite often as yet none of his urine samples have tested positive.

Maybe Front has some of idea of how something could be undetectable

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Someone once said it's legal but against the spirit of sport

I can see their point of view

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Maybe Front has some of idea of how something could be undetectable

Well we can ask him, he is update on these type of things, masking agents can be used I suppose.

 

[the AntiPusher]

15 million views

Miss Carol Did you take the video? Jajaja ...just think I sat right in front of Novak's team in Cincy when Medvedev came back to defeat Novak in 3 sets. Maybe Daniil's team intercepted the bottle and had it delivered to Daniil's chair.. jajaja