General Doping/PEDs Discussion

[Jelenafan]

Honestly, anyone on tour could be taking something that is perfectly legal by drug test standards, but it does indeed help with performance enhancement. I mean Sharapova was taking a drug that had enhancements that were perfectly legal until they added it to the banned substance list. The same could probably be said for many on tour taking drugs that haven’t been banned yet.

Early in her career Sharapova’s endurance was suspect. Get her in one or two 3 set matches and she wilted.

Sharapova was using a drug not intended for the *medical* reasons her team espoused, (called a lie) used it specifically before matches, did not disclose it for years on her medication list, and did not let her American doctors/agent know she was taking said drug. Not quite legal per my perception.

There is a reason her records are tainted in the eyes of many

 

[El Dude]

Out of curiosity, where do y'all expect or hope to see this conversation going?

 

[Kieran]

Out of curiosity, where do y'all expect or hope to see this conversation going?

Another five years?

 

[TheSicilian]

Yes, it's clearly meant to downplay Rafa's achievement. Look at Fiero's post even just above. He's still trying to slog the notion that Rafa has an "unbalanced" resume. Plenty of Novak and Roger fan's try to pretend that what Rafa did to Novak prior to 2011 sort of "doesn't count." And they like to ignore that, even though Novak is the HC man, Rafa has more USO wins, including 2 over Novak in finals. And, I'm sorry, but both count.

I read the link you added. If there's any truth to it, I do think it's about people trying to survive in the top 100-200. The female player quoted was unnamed?

Yeah, not sure who the player was maybe Sharapova as she is the expert on doping The guy doing the article was spot on with his football doping, not sure if he studied tennis much or just went with what his unnamed friend told him...

 

[TheSicilian]

Honestly, anyone on tour could be taking something that is perfectly legal by drug test standards, but it does indeed help with performance enhancement. I mean Sharapova was taking a drug that had enhancements that was perfectly legal until they added it to the banned substance list. The same could probably be said for many on tour taking drugs that haven’t been banned yet.

Spot on, I doubt anyone is taking anything illegal, but there is definitely a grey area when it comes to taking a "medication" like Sharapova did. There are probably hundreds if not thousands of medications available and some may have performance enhancing properties not many people know about, often discovered by a total fluke!

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Well Novak did speak out regarding his team hiding his drink,

"Magic potion, that is all I can say.
"You'll find out soon, but I cant speak about it now
"You'll find out soon".

 

[Kieran]

Well Novak did speak out regarding his team hiding his drink,

"Magic potion, that is all I can say.
"You'll find out soon, but I cant speak about it now
"You'll find out soon".

He said that before, didn’t he? Maybe he’s busy copyrighting some fruit formula herbal egg-based drink?

That made me peckish!

 

[Moxie]

Look you think Roger was doping and I know Nadal was. It's obvious. Let's leave it at that.

You can tell me you don't want to debate this with me anymore, but you can't change my position in the process. I have said, even twice on this thread, that I don't think Roger doped. Neither do I think Rafa has ever. I've also said that Novak is a poor candidate based on his reluctance to put a vaccine in his body, etc. (Still waiting to hear what he was huffing in that bottle, though, 'cause that was weird, while having a drink from his team is not, to me.) My problem is that you have constructed a worldview, that Rafa has always doped and Roger never has, then bend your own rules to support it. You are blatantly inconsistent.

 

[Moxie]

He said that before, didn’t he? Maybe he’s busy copyrighting some fruit formula herbal egg-based drink?

That made me peckish!

Maybe he thinks if he puts it off long enough, we'll forget. We'll HE'S clearly not reading our forum...we have the collective memory of a herd of elephants.

 

[Kieran]

Maybe he thinks if he puts it off long enough, we'll forget. We'll HE'S clearly not reading our forum...we have the collective memory of a herd of elephants.

We can keep at this for DECADES! His retirement will be ruined if he doesn’t clear this up NOW!

 

[TheSicilian]

He said that before, didn’t he? Maybe he’s busy copyrighting some fruit formula herbal egg-based drink?

That made me peckish!

Eggnogovic Just in time for Christmas! That video seen by 15 million was genius advertising

 

[TheSicilian]

We can keep at this for DECADES! His retirement will be ruined if he doesn’t clear this up NOW!

He may take early retirement if the drink turns out to be "dodgy"

 

[Front242]

He may take early retirement if the drink turns out to be "dodgy"

His wife says it's not so it must be fine. His team just like to be private and hiding from the camera was nothing dodgy. They're just either shy or very private people lol.

 

[Moxie]

Out of curiosity, where do y'all expect or hope to see this conversation going?

It's not off-topic, given the video of Novak from this tournament, which has gazillions of hits and is being discussed even amongst legit tennis journalists. And including the recent Halep suspension. Which leads to the inevitable massaging over old arguments and grievances. We haven't had a good old doping smackdown in a long time!

 

[El Dude]

That is your very controversial opinion.

He already HAS loads of amounts of money. If he's unwilling to risk the vaccine, then why would he risk the effects of other substances on his body, which is clearly his temple? You might say for the records, which he has full-on admitted he wants. Then why not take the vaccine, rather than skip Majors he'd have had a serious chance of winning, if he's willing to take in other potentially harmful substances or otherwise things that are not prescribed for a healthy athlete? It doesn't follow his MO.

This doesn't make sense at all. I'm sure Novak wouldn't take anything that he thinks is dangerous for his body. Why assume that what he's taking is "potentially harmful?" Most herbs aren't harmful, if taken properly.

Furthermore, I think you are under-estimating just how harmful some people consider the mRNA injections to be. Whether they're right or not, that's what they think.

 

[Moxie]

This doesn't make sense at all. I'm sure Novak wouldn't take anything that he thinks is dangerous for his body. Why assume that what he's taking is "potentially harmful?" Most herbs aren't harmful, if taken properly.

Sure, it makes sense, because I've never seen one herb on the prohibited list. (Except marijuana?) And I don't assume he's taking anything. Everything that IS on the prohibited list is pretty much an actual pharmaceutical. What Sharapova and Halep got done for was taking a drug that is used for conditions other than any that they suffer from. Except that it has otherwise PE qualities and benefits, and there is the sanction. This is what I'm saying I have a problem believing that Novak taking, i.e., a pharmaceutical that is not for an condition that he has, if he won't take a vaccine. You see my point?

I've said I have no qualms about Novak's team making him a drink. And, seriously, unless it had cocaine in it, what was really going to give an on-court bump? Even @Front242 hasn't weighed in on that, and he's the expert.

Furthermore, I think you are under-estimating just how harmful some people consider the mRNA injections to be. Whether they're right or not, that's what they think.

I'm not underestimating it. We just disagree. But this IS off-topic, and for another thread. I replied briefly to Front's comment on it, but that we really could bring over to the vaccine thread, if you want to continue to revisit it.

 

[El Dude]

Sure, it makes sense, because I've never seen one herb on the prohibited list. (Except marijuana?) And I don't assume he's taking anything. Everything that IS on the prohibited list is pretty much an actual pharmaceutical. What Sharapova and Halep got done for was taking a drug that is used for conditions other than any that they suffer from. Except that it has otherwise PE qualities and benefits, and there is the sanction. This is what I'm saying I have a problem believing that Novak taking, i.e., a pharmaceutical that is not for an condition that he has, if he won't take a vaccine. You see my point?

Yes, which is more reason to think he wouldn't take a sketchy pharmaceutical. But again, I don't know why you equate a hypothetical pharmaceutical with the not-actually-a-vaccine-vaccine. Novak will take what he thinks is safe. He doesn't think the vax is safe, but that doesn't mean he thinks all pharmaceuticals are dangerous.

 

[Moxie]

Yes, which is more reason to think he wouldn't take a sketchy pharmaceutical. But again, I don't know why you equate a hypothetical pharmaceutical with the not-actually-a-vaccine-vaccine. Novak will take what he thinks is safe. He doesn't think the vax is safe, but that doesn't mean he thinks all pharmaceuticals are dangerous.

He's even said he's not against all vaccines, just the covid one. (Which I believe is actually a vaccine, for the record.) But I think you've lost sight of my point. I'm defending him against the allegations on this thread. One video of him getting a drink from his team, on court, which many players do. Then the follow-on insinuations. So what are you saying? That just because he won't take the Covid vaccine, it's no indication that he wouldn't take a pharmaceutical for PED reasons? I thought I had a good argument for defending him.

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

Magic Potion is that his way of doing marketing for some product he invested in and is going to release to consumers soon? If I have to inhale a drink to get the full experience, no thanks .

Djokovic in general is just very weird and random. Things like this illustrate perfectly why the tennis world has gravitated toward Federer and Nadal.

 

[TheSicilian]

Magic Potion is that his way of doing marketing for some product he invested in and is going to release to consumers soon? If I have to inhale a drink to get the full experience, no thanks .

Djokovic in general is just very weird and random. Things like this illustrate perfectly why the tennis world has gravitated toward Federer and Nadal.

I think at Wimbledon he said it's a product he will market. You can guarantee what he takes and what he sells will be two different things... I'm sure we will find out one day.