General Doping/PEDs Discussion

[Front242]

If it was discovered that your "Beloved One" used HGH , would your danduff still be as aggrevated as it is now with your unfounded accusations about Nadal although you seemed very timid to speak against Djoker and Murray.

I wouldn't be one bit impressed, AP. I don't care if it's a player I like, I detest dopers.

You actually once said on the old forum that you'd still follow him, based upon your own sort of incoherent logic that it would be proof that they're all at it, so why not. But leaving that aside, I agree wholeheartedly with your post. I'll go further and say that if any of the top great players of today was found to be guilty of taking drugs to win, I would be sceptical of the whole sport for many years to come...

I said I like how he plays, his style of tennis. That would mean, yes, I'd still watch his matches but naturally enough I wouldn't be impressed with anyone who's found to be a doper. It doesn't take a genius to work out and observe that many are already doping.

 

[Kieran]

I wouldn't be one bit impressed, AP. I don't care if it's a player I like, I detest dopers.

You actually once said on the old forum that you'd still follow him, based upon your own sort of incoherent logic that it would be proof that they're all at it, so why not. But leaving that aside, I agree wholeheartedly with your post. I'll go further and say that if any of the top great players of today was found to be guilty of taking drugs to win, I would be sceptical of the whole sport for many years to come...

I said I like how he plays, his style of tennis. That would mean, yes, I'd still watch his matches but naturally enough I wouldn't be impressed with anyone who's found to be a doper. It doesn't take a genius to work out and observe that many are already doping.

Oh! You and I have already agreed, my friend, that this generation of record busters would be suspicious if they were all cyclists or athletes. Federer has left so many records in the dirt, and Rafa has set so many records on the dirt, and Nole is now setting records, they're all like 100m runners who've knocked as much as 25% off all the previous records. We agreed on this one, buddy. And it wouldn't be wise to look at a single out one of them when they're all exceptions to every rule that preceded them.

If tennis was truly wise, they'd call the Feebs to come in and have a browse, just to declare the sport clean. Sometimes there's so many smashed records, it makes my head spin...

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Whether something is performance enhancing can probably be objectively determined. Whether something is bad for the long term health of the players can also probably be objectively determined.

But, how do they decide whether something is against the spirit of the sport? uzzled

 

[Kieran]

Whether something is performance enhancing can probably be objectively determined. Whether something is bad for the long term health of the players can also probably be objectively determined.

But, how do they decide whether something is against the spirit of the sport? uzzled

How do they decide what is "the spirit of the sport?"

That's a vague, nonsensical term right there. By the way, I realise it isn't your formulation of words. You're repeating something that was said about Djoker, a player who's universally lauded as a good sportsman as well as a great champ and representative for the game.

What does it mean? Can anyone show me "the spirit of the sport" to help me out here? This isn't the amateur Olympics, where it's "not the winning, but the taking part that counts." Tennis is literally a billion dollar business, it's ruthless and cutthroat and vicious at the top, contained by a lid of etiquette that was brought in to stop the McEnroe's and Connors of the world absolutely vulgarising it. But they were also operating within what they would call "the spirit of the sport", which they would say was, "win at all costs, compete with fury, destroy the opponent."

That "spirit" didn't suit Borg, who required stillness and stability. But he still competed as hard as anyone. Harder, even. What's the spirit of the sport? "Compete hard, within the rules?" Is that a good definition? What would be your definition, since you brought it up? I think it might be hard to come up with a definition that everyone agrees with, and so therefore it would be hard to agree on what's against "the spirit of the sport..."

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Whether something is performance enhancing can probably be objectively determined. Whether something is bad for the long term health of the players can also probably be objectively determined.

But, how do they decide whether something is against the spirit of the sport? uzzled

How do they decide what is "the spirit of the sport?"

That's a vague, nonsensical term right there. By the way, I realise it isn't your formulation of words. You're repeating something that was said about Djoker, a player who's universally lauded as a good sportsman as well as a great champ and representative for the game.

What does it mean? Can anyone show me "the spirit of the sport" to help me out here? This isn't the amateur Olympics, where it's "not the winning, but the taking part that counts." Tennis is literally a billion dollar business, it's ruthless and cutthroat and vicious at the top, contained by a lid of etiquette that was brought in to stop the McEnroe's and Connors of the world absolutely vulgarising it. But they were also operating within what they would call "the spirit of the sport", which they would say was, "win at all costs, compete with fury, destroy the opponent."

That "spirit" didn't suit Borg, who required stillness and stability. But he still competed as hard as anyone. Harder, even. What's the spirit of the sport? "Compete hard, within the rules?" Is that a good definition? What would be your definition, since you brought it up? I think it might be hard to come up with a definition that everyone agrees with, and so therefore it would be hard to agree on what's against "the spirit of the sport..."

According to WADA, they ban something if it satisfies two of three things. One of those three things is "being against the spirit of the sport". So, WADA must have a way of (right or wrong) telling whether something is against the spirit or not. I am just asking as to how they do it. I don't know.

 

[Kieran]

I understand. It's interesting because there can be as many definitions of this elusive "spirit" as there are players, but surely the spirit of a sport is contained somehow in its rules and its traditions. But to use this vague formulation as a method of defining what should or shouldn't be used is troubling, to say the least...

 

[Front242]

WADA Declares Spain, Mexico Non-Compliant With Doping Code.

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/wada-declares-spain-mexico-compliant-doping-code-37777167

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Nice take on what should be banned by this blogger.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

According to ITF boss, Tennis is a clean sport .

 

[Kieran]

He sounds like Seb Coe in that article. Rather than tackling the issues, he's attacking Dick Pound and others for bringing them up...

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Apparently, Dick Pound, the Cynical Optimist, at one time was the defense lawyer for the notorious Ben Johnoson.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Victor Conte, the doping guru of BALCO (who spent time in jail), says that an overwhelming majority of Olympics players dope . There are multiple videos of interviews with him on various issues there.

 

[Front242]

Victor Conte is a very knowledgeable guy when it comes to doping and he's just telling us what we all knew anyway. Great link btw.

 

[Kieran]

The London Sunday Times is worth buying today, if it's in your region. They've gone undercover on a Dr Mark Bonar, who "boasted how he helps elite cricketers, footballers and other athletes to cheat." He named names, which the newspaper decided not to publish the names but instead they are now being investigated by the relevant authorities.

The article states that "the tennis players Bonar had treated were top amateurs and not professionals."

The Sunday Times team worked in cahoots with the same German television channel that uncovered the Russian debacle, and they sent a young Olympic hopeful to Bonar and told him that "he was an athlete struggling to recover from training." The kid was perfectly healthy but the doctor eventually started talking about EPO.

“Some of these treatments I use are banned on a professional circuit. So, you have to be mindful of that.”

He was met by undercover reporters and he said he'd treated top footballers from Arsenal, Chelsea, Leicester. One footballer "approached him recently seeking similar treatment [a cocktail of steroids] to extend his playing career."

'"Footballers are hardly ever tested anyway", [Bonar] said. "Think about it, you're like in your thirties and you're on the football pitch. How do you keep up with the 18 year olds on the pitch unless you're doing something?"'

He says cycling is still dodgy and that he had "seen quite a few cyclists for EPO." British cyclists "just lead the pack."

Cricket players, boxing champions too.

Bonar claims that "he takes a cut of any profits made by Omniya's pharmacy on the drugs he prescribes or any diagnostic treatment he recommends."

Obviously, this article will be investigated and already UKAD, the local drug squad are under fire because Bonar was reported to them two years ago, and they basically did feck all. "It had investigated Bonar but concluded that he didn't come under its jurisdiction because he was not linked to a professional sports body."

The Sunday Times is behind a paywall, but here's an article from the Telegraph, giving the gist of it all. I'm sure we'll read a lot more on this over the next few days...

 

[Kieran]

Another doping scandal from cycling - but this time it isn't the cyclists, it's their bikes! :cover

http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/36072672

 

[Front242]

Another doping scandal from cycling - but this time it isn't the cyclists, it's their bikes! :cover

http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/36072672

What has sport come to. That's just nuts :cover

 

[Front242]

I posted a link to this yesterday but not from tennis.com. As they've now added Becker's silly, defensive comments I said I'd post the link from tennis.com as it's stirring much interest.

Murray calls for increased anti-doping efforts; Becker criticizes his remarks

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2016/04/murray-calls-increased-anti-doping-efforts-becker-criticizes-his-remarks/58162/#.VxVap3pLHPY

"I have played against players and thought, 'They won’t go away,' or 'They don’t seem to be getting tired,' he said, adding that he’s had suspicions about specific players. "You hear things."

“It’s harder to tell in our sport, as people can make big improvements to a stroke or start serving better because they have made technical changes,” he said. “If it’s purely physical, and you’re watching someone playing six-hour matches over and over and showing no signs of being tired, you’d look at that." <----- He's catching a lot of flack for this as we all know which two players played a 6 hour match and who keep beating him.

He wants to see a significant increase in spending to combat potential problems.

"The winners of tournaments are getting £700,000, yet the anti-doping program for the year is probably a few million dollars," Murray said.

i just don’t think sport should be doing anything to try to protect their biggest stars, or anyone who cheats,” he said. “Whether it is with match-fixing or with doping, at the first sign of it looking like there’s a problem, you have to make your best efforts to try to change that, rather than just saying, 'It’s a one-off' or 'This is very rare.’

"When someone like Sharapova is banned, I see that as being a positive ... If that stuff is happening and you don’t hear about it, I have a big issue, because it’s like the sport is covering up for the big stars ... If someone is going through that process, the tennis world should let people know and, as far as I’m aware, they are changing that rule now.

"If someone is serving that suspension period, or the period where they are arguing it or trying to come to conclusions [about] what the sentence is going to be, that is going to become public knowledge.”

"So you’re not going to have silent bans or someone saying they were injured. That happened with Croatia’s Marin Cilic, where he pulled out of Wimbledon injured. People started talking and then it came out that he had failed a drugs test. And that looks terrible."

Original link here with more than the one from tennis.com http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-3543766/Maria-Sharapova-s-drugs-ban-progress-tennis-according-Andy-Murray.html

 

[the AntiPusher]

Becker says the Men are clean


"We have random drug-testing and unless it's proven, they are 100 percent innocent. So to assume something because somebody has won a Grand Slam or is fitter is totally out of order.

"Andy is one of the fittest players on the tour -- he often outlasts players and nobody is questioning his ethics.

"I believe 100 percent Andy is clean. Roger [Federer] is clean, Rafa is clean, all these guys are clean. Novak gets tested a lot. That can mean twice in a Grand Slam."

 

[Front242]

They test only the losing player still and Becker was strongly rumoured to have taken steroids in his career so I'd take anything he says with a pinch of salt. Besides, what's he gonna say...they're all doped off their tits ?! He wants to keep his job. Sitting there with a cheesy grin and a mad high blood pressure bright red head and getting paid for it sounds like a job he should try and hold onto by doing good PR. Thing is, apart from that part about the "big four" the rest of what he said came across as way too overly defensive as if his camp had something to hide. He could've worded things A LOT better.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I guess Novak felt compled to speak on this since he is the current World's #1 by mile

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/tennis/n...rm=PRHPTP'