General Doping/PEDs Discussion

[Front242]

The Fuentes case is different to what I posted about. Not all of Fuentes clients were Spanish, and in fact they could be anyone. And it also has its own thread, and it's a scandal about which we are in agreement.

Do you understand why the Athlete's Committee of WADA have taken this step with WADA regarding Russia, or should I explain it to you again?

Well, they've left it too late to do anything about Spain unless they retest 10 years of samples but even then they haven't been tested enough so they basically got away with 100% Sure, Russia have a problem, but Spain's is just as bad.

 

[Kieran]

By the way, you stated the Russian authorities are so corrupt it's gone all the way to the top. It doesn't get much more corrupt than a Spanish judge ordering blood bags of their athletes (and others) to be destroyed! Utterly shameful. Even their sport's minister knows and acknowledges Spain has a doping problem which is a lot more than the fans of Spanish players here do.

http://espn.go.com/olympics/story/_/id/7573907/spain-doping-problem-nation-sports-minister-says

The Fuentes case is different to what I posted about, as his clients could be anybody, from any nationality. In fact, doping scandals can happen even in neutral Switzerland. It isn't exclusive to any one nation, not even Russia. But I feel you're missing the point here, so i ask you again:

Do you understand why the Athlete's Committee of WADA have taken this action with regards to Russia's Olympics team, and do you understand why WADA's reaction is so unsatisfactory?

 

[Kieran]

The Fuentes case is different to what I posted about. Not all of Fuentes clients were Spanish, and in fact they could be anyone. And it also has its own thread, and it's a scandal about which we are in agreement.

Do you understand why the Athlete's Committee of WADA have taken this step with WADA regarding Russia, or should I explain it to you again?

Well, they've left it too late to do anything about Spain unless they retest 10 years of samples but even then they haven't been tested enough so they basically got away with 100% Sure, Russia have a problem, but Spain's is just as bad.

Again, you're not understanding these things, which isn't too surprising considering you're only a nipper of 41 years old. :cover

Fuentes clients were from many nations and we don't even know who a lot of them are. As for this sentence from a newspaper article, which you seem to think is important, you actually missed or didn't understand the important intel in the sentence:

"At the time of 2006 drugs raids it was not illegal in Spain to take drugs, but was rather an issue for the sporting bodies"


It actually tells you there who is responsible for chasing drugs cheats: "the sporting bodies", of which WADA is one. And this is what we all want, even you. But a drug maybe legal in a country but also on the banned list, as Sharapova has discovered. You understand?

 

[Front242]

By the way, you stated the Russian authorities are so corrupt it's gone all the way to the top. It doesn't get much more corrupt than a Spanish judge ordering blood bags of their athletes (and others) to be destroyed! Utterly shameful. Even their sport's minister knows and acknowledges Spain has a doping problem which is a lot more than the fans of Spanish players here do.

http://espn.go.com/olympics/story/_/id/7573907/spain-doping-problem-nation-sports-minister-says

The Fuentes case is different to what I posted about, as his clients could be anybody, from any nationality. In fact, doping scandals can happen even in neutral Switzerland. It isn't exclusive to any one nation, not even Russia. But I feel you're missing the point here, so i ask you again:

Do you understand why the Athlete's Committee of WADA have taken this action with regards to Russia's Olympics team, and do you understand why WADA's reaction is so unsatisfactory?

Of course doping happens everywhere but I challenge you to find anywhere near as much from Switzerland as Spain, Italy and Russia. Sure I understand everything about them investigating Russia but they basically let the doped Spanish football team keep the 2010 World Cup and countless Olympic medals. Clearly they need to address this also.

 

[Kieran]

By the way, you stated the Russian authorities are so corrupt it's gone all the way to the top. It doesn't get much more corrupt than a Spanish judge ordering blood bags of their athletes (and others) to be destroyed! Utterly shameful. Even their sport's minister knows and acknowledges Spain has a doping problem which is a lot more than the fans of Spanish players here do.

http://espn.go.com/olympics/story/_/id/7573907/spain-doping-problem-nation-sports-minister-says

The Fuentes case is different to what I posted about, as his clients could be anybody, from any nationality. In fact, doping scandals can happen even in neutral Switzerland. It isn't exclusive to any one nation, not even Russia. But I feel you're missing the point here, so i ask you again:

Do you understand why the Athlete's Committee of WADA have taken this action with regards to Russia's Olympics team, and do you understand why WADA's reaction is so unsatisfactory?

Of course doping happens everywhere but I challenge you to find anywhere near as much from Switzerland as Spain, Italy and Russia. Sure I understand everything about them investigating Russia but they basically let the doped Spanish football team keep the 2010 World Cup and countless Olympic medals. Clearly they need to address this also.

Well, the Fuentes thing has its own thread, but I've already shown you that the Swiss are not immune from dodgy dealings in this. You should dwell on that and not allow prejudice blind you.

The issue David Walsh is bringing up - and I'm amazed you still haven't gotten it yet - is that after the Athlete's Committee of WADA pressed for Russian competitors in other Olympic sports to be examined closely, WADA themselves were slow on the uptake, which prompted the Athlete's Committee to send them the following, in a letter:

"Our view as a committee is that the response to date...has been unsatisfactory...The principles of fair sport are very close to our hearts. We believe that extending the mandate will be a sign of commitment to clean sport, and a sign that the voice of the clean athlete is heard."

This is about the frustration of clean athletes. A similarity with Fuentes, I suppose, is that clean athletes were also unfairly tarnished by the judge when he refused to release the bags to WADA for examination. Nadal complained about it at the time, but like I say, that has a thread of its own and we're all in agreement about how wrong this was...

 

[Front242]

Nadal can complain all he likes 'cos he'll have a hard time explaining to anyone how he went from how he looked in 2004-2006 to how he does now. You keep saying you're amazed I haven't got it yet. I'm all too aware of the Russian issue at the moment but they basically let the Spanish off the hook which is frankly unacceptable also.

 

[Kieran]

Nadal can complain all he likes 'cos he'll have a hard time explaining to anyone how he went from how he looked in 2004-2006 to how he does now. You keep saying you're amazed I haven't got it yet. I'm all too aware of the Russian issue at the moment but they basically let the Spanish off the hook which is frankly unacceptable also.

Oh brother. :cover

In all your history of really inane and prejudicial comments about this topic, that one takes the biscuit. Seriously. Take off the Fedfan blinkers and try look at things broadly, instead of narrowly.

And! You still haven't gotten the point behind David Walsh's article today in the Sunday Times... :cover

 

[tented]

I was watching skiing the other day, and the commentators mentioned one of the skiers having had PRP for his knee. It was such a nice change to have it mentioned in a just-the-facts-ma'am manner, without any insinuations of his having done something illegal, or morally questionable, or anything else involving negative connotations. "He had PRP on his knee a few years ago, and is doing better." Period. Done. End of story.

If only we could reach that place in tennis discussions ...

 

[Front242]

I was watching skiing the other day, and the commentators mentioned one of the skiers having had PRP for his knee. It was such a nice change to have it mentioned in a just-the-facts-ma'am manner, without any insinuations of his having done something illegal, or morally questionable, or anything else involving negative connotations. "He had PRP on his knee a few years ago, and is doing better." Period. Done. End of story.

If only we could reach that place in tennis discussions ...

That just shows a lack of knowledge by the commentators and nothing more. Tiger Woods had it done too and bulked up a ton and there are tons of links to Woods and HGH in relation to that treatment but it's just been ignored.

 

[tented]

I was watching skiing the other day, and the commentators mentioned one of the skiers having had PRP for his knee. It was such a nice change to have it mentioned in a just-the-facts-ma'am manner, without any insinuations of his having done something illegal, or morally questionable, or anything else involving negative connotations. "He had PRP on his knee a few years ago, and is doing better." Period. Done. End of story.

If only we could reach that place in tennis discussions ...

That just shows a lack of knowledge by the commentators and nothing more. Tiger Woods had it done too and bulked up a ton and there are tons of links to Woods and HGH in relation to that treatment but it's just been ignored.

No, what it means is the skier had a legitimate medical procedure done to his knee, and the commentators are enlightened enough to know how to deal with facts.

 

[Front242]

Yes, we all know it's a legal procedure (though they were 50/50 on that for a long time and may rethink it in the future) but we also know it's performance enhancing and the commentators never comment on such facts.

 

[Kieran]

Yes, we all know it's a legal procedure

Good man. :clap

Now let's hear no more about it. It's literally boring me to tears...

 

[the AntiPusher]

Yes, we all know it's a legal procedure (though they were 50/50 on that for a long time and may rethink it in the future) but we also know it's performance enhancing and the commentators never comment on such facts.

If it was discovered that your "Beloved One" used HGH , would your danduff still be as aggrevated as it is now with your unfounded accusations about Nadal although you seemed very timid to speak against Djoker and Murray.

 

[Kieran]

Yes, we all know it's a legal procedure (though they were 50/50 on that for a long time and may rethink it in the future) but we also know it's performance enhancing and the commentators never comment on such facts.

If it was discovered that your "Beloved One" used HGH , would your danduff still be as aggrevated as it is now with your unfounded accusations about Nadal although you seemed very timid to speak against Djoker and Murray.

Who knows what The Man from Mono is taking to keep him so youthful and help him bounce around the room so soon after knee surgery. They all take something legal to get through injuries, I hope it's the same thing for him. I'm sure it's something like this :snicker

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Rafa plans on suing everyone who alleges he failed a drug test .

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Yes, we all know it's a legal procedure (though they were 50/50 on that for a long time and may rethink it in the future) but we also know it's performance enhancing and the commentators never comment on such facts.

As I posted in this thread sometime ago, WADA does not necessarily ban something just because it is performance enhancing. (they want 2 of 3 conditions satisfied: performance enhancing, against the spirit of the sport, bad for athlete's health).

Apparently, Rafa's PRP is performance enhancing, but not the other two.

Apparently, Novak's EGG is against the spriit of the sport, but not the other two.

 

[Kieran]

Yes, we all know it's a legal procedure (though they were 50/50 on that for a long time and may rethink it in the future) but we also know it's performance enhancing and the commentators never comment on such facts.

As I posted in this thread sometime ago, WADA does not necessarily ban something just because it is performance enhancing. (they want 2 of 3 conditions satisfied: performance enhancing, against the spirit of the sport, bad for athlete's health).

Apparently, Rafa's PRP is performance enhancing, but not the other two.

Apparently, Novak's EGG is against the spriit of the sport, but not the other two.

Every tennis player takes something that's performance enhancing. Every single one of them, especially the high endurance ones like Federer and Nadal, and Djoker. You don't last at the top for so long if you don't. This is not to say they're cheating, but to say that can do this within the rules also...

 

[Front242]

Yes, we all know it's a legal procedure (though they were 50/50 on that for a long time and may rethink it in the future) but we also know it's performance enhancing and the commentators never comment on such facts.

If it was discovered that your "Beloved One" used HGH , would your danduff still be as aggrevated as it is now with your unfounded accusations about Nadal although you seemed very timid to speak against Djoker and Murray.

I wouldn't be one bit impressed, AP. I don't care if it's a player I like, I detest dopers.

 

[Front242]

Rafa plans on suing everyone who alleges he failed a drug test .

Yeah, good luck to him on that one. It worked out well for Lance.

 

[Kieran]

Yes, we all know it's a legal procedure (though they were 50/50 on that for a long time and may rethink it in the future) but we also know it's performance enhancing and the commentators never comment on such facts.

If it was discovered that your "Beloved One" used HGH , would your danduff still be as aggrevated as it is now with your unfounded accusations about Nadal although you seemed very timid to speak against Djoker and Murray.

I wouldn't be one bit impressed, AP. I don't care if it's a player I like, I detest dopers.

You actually once said on the old forum that you'd still follow him, based upon your own sort of incoherent logic that it would be proof that they're all at it, so why not. But leaving that aside, I agree wholeheartedly with your post. I'll go further and say that if any of the top great players of today was found to be guilty of taking drugs to win, I would be sceptical of the whole sport for many years to come...