General Doping/PEDs Discussion

[Federberg]

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/jun/14/willpower-cash-lacking-anti-doping-struggle

 

[Front242]

http://www.outsideonline.com/1982176/dope-once-test-positive-life

 

[Kieran]

http://www.outsideonline.com/1982176/dope-once-test-positive-life

Well, that article said this test is not being done under the guidance of WADA, who we all like around here, who were rejected because they "wanted the right to amend his research data." But I read this before and it makes sense, that a doper's activity stays with them longterm. Seeing a photo of Justin Gatlin makes me want to puke. Is there anybody in athletics with any sense? The bloke is chasing world records that were beyond him in his druggy peak... :cover :nono

 

[Front242]

The article makes a lot of sense to be honest, WADA or not. You see guys in the gym day after day who lift absolutely nothing and it's the drugs making them grow and they may or may not be even juiced still. I know guys who've done one or two cycles of steroids and swear they've been off them for years and to look at you wouldn't think it.

 

[Federberg]

Surely this analysis if confirmed will make it impossible for juicers to use the American courts to get bans reduced? They'll have to be banned for life!

 

[tented]

This thread is about doping in tennis. Posts about doping in other sports, such as cycling, have been moved to their relevant threads in the Sports Forums.

 

[Front242]

Tennis commentator David Law mentioned a new under 21 tournament in 2017 between Paris week and ATP Finals and was quizzed on doping controls and couldn't provide a reply. Says it all really.

https://twitter.com/DavidLawTennis/status/668443684137000961

SnR ‏@Tehaspe 7h7 hours ago

@DavidLawTennis Will the tournament have doping controls?
DavidLaw ‏@DavidLawTennis 7h7 hours ago

@Tehaspe They all have it.
SnR ‏@Tehaspe 7h7 hours ago

@DavidLawTennis What evidence are you basing that claim on? Can you provide a link to it please?
DavidLaw ‏@DavidLawTennis 7h7 hours ago

@Tehaspe Every tournament has anti-doping tests. Whether you think they are sufficient is another matter. They have them.
SnR ‏@Tehaspe 6h6 hours ago

.@DavidLawTennis You're making claim that every tournament has anti-doping tests. What evidence do you have for that claim? Please provide.

 

[Kieran]

Who's David Law? You describe him as a "tennis commentator", so what does any of this say, when it "says it all, really?"

For instance, he was asked if they have doping controls and he said "they all have them...every tournament has anti-doping tests."

After that, it would be up to his interrogator to provide evidence that every tournament doesn't have tests, since he's the one who's suggesting they don't. But why doesn't he ask the ATP, who are running the tournament, and find out whether they do or don't? Two "PR men" gabbing on Twitter is as useless and irrelevant as discussing piano techniques with a labrador...

 

[Front242]

Quite eye opening and sad.

Victor Conte: Banned substance use in sport is rampant

Re: IGF1-LR3
“The tests they have for growth hormones are relatively weak,” claims Conte. “My understanding from talking to lots of people in lots of different sports is that there is a rampant use of this substance, and it’s not being detected by the WADA testers.”

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03b17yy

 

[Front242]

An absolute farce and this proves they are doing absolutely nothing to combat doping. Maybe they haven't been watching the 5-6 hour matches the past few years.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/leisure/12010475/ATP-secures-record-160m-in-deals-as-sponsors-flock-to-clean-image.html

 

[Kieran]

I watched 5-6 hour matches in the 80's, and I know there were long matches before then. A long match isn't evidence of anything, except its own length. Especially nowadays with all the time-wasting that goes on. From the perspective of the president of the ATP (Chris Kermode), he's hardly going to say anything else. The president of the Players Council from 2008-2014 (Roger Federer) played long matches and has never squeaked that tennis is dirty behind the scenes. And he'd know, and was in a great position of influence...

 

[tented]

I watched 5-6 hour matches in the 80's, and I know there were long matches before then. A long match isn't evidence of anything, except its own length. Especially nowadays with all the time-wasting that goes on. From the perspective of the president of the ATP (Chris Kermode), he's hardly going to say anything else. The president of the Players Council from 2008-2014 (Roger Federer) played long matches and has never squeaked that tennis is dirty behind the scenes. And he'd know, and was in a great position of influence...

I agree -- length itself is not an accurate barometer of the use of PEDs.

I think it's also worth keeping in mind that surface homogenization (slower courts, really) has led to longer rallies, which has translated into longer matches.

Also, fitness/conditioning/nutrition in general has improved, which has helped players stay in matches longer than they used to.

 

[dante1976]

Also, fitness/conditioning/nutrition in general has improved, which has helped players stay in matches longer than they used to.

True but same thing is with biology/chemistry/substances and those "fields" actually improved waaaaaay more than fitness/nutrition/conditioning
Where a huge amount of $ is involved everything is manageable

 

[Kieran]

Also, fitness/conditioning/nutrition in general has improved, which has helped players stay in matches longer than they used to.

True but same thing is with biology/chemistry/substances and those "fields" actually improved waaaaaay more than fitness/nutrition/conditioning
Where a huge amount of $ is involved everything is manageable

This is true, and it's something I think everybody here is in agreement with - which is notable in itself, when you think about it - but it's wrong to look at long matches in themselves as being evidence of drug-induced shenanigans. They're not. Given how much time wasting goes on, they're more often than not only evidence that umpires aren't enforcing the rules...

 

[Front242]

It's not the long matches as such but the fact that certain players can do it day after day after day. It's definitely not natural same as a guy lifting massive weights in the gym on every body part day after day and looking like the incredible hulk. There comes a point when it's pretty obvious what's up.

 

[Kieran]

I never seen a player play 5-6 hour matches "day after day after day..."

 

[Front242]

Well done Switzerland. At least one country is doing something to clamp down on doping. If only they'd do the same in tennis though. They should refuse to play matches unless there's proper testing in and out of competition and regularly but sadly the ITF are a joke and this isn't on the cards.

http://www.sportsintegrityinitiative.com/anti-doping-switzerland-suspends-work-with-iaaf/

 

[Front242]

Novak is just cruising above the tour. He has become as routine and dominating as Roger was in that mouth of the span of 2004 to 2007. Novak is playing that well.

Better since he OWNS Nadal now; lock, stock, & barrel! Even on clay, Rafa looks helpless against Nole! People should have realized, if he's losing sets to kids the way he has, he obviously has no chance against the #1 player in the world! This will soon become like Rafa over Roger; a "non-rivalry" after all is said and done! :clap :laydownlaughing :angel:

Gotta factor in that Roger was facing the ultimate juice warrior back then. I mean if this dude was natural back then, I'm a monkey's uncle. And I honestly couldn't care less what flack I get for this 'cos this is NOT what a natural tennis player looks like and it's clearly obvious why he looked like that back then. These days it's a different story, but back then...no sir. Shoulders, biceps and forearms like a bodybuilder. It's impossible to be that big naturally doing all the cardio tennis players do. So in that respect, it's clear why he had Roger's number.

 

[Fiero425]

RE: Doha Tournament

Novak is just cruising above the tour. He has become as routine and dominating as Roger was in that mouth of the span of 2004 to 2007. Novak is playing that well.

Better since he OWNS Nadal now; lock, stock, & barrel! Even on clay, Rafa looks helpless against Nole! People should have realized, if he's losing sets to kids the way he has, he obviously has no chance against the #1 player in the world! This will soon become like Rafa over Roger; a "non-rivalry" after all is said and done! :clap :laydownlaughing :angel:

Gotta factor in that Roger was facing the ultimate juice warrior back then. I mean if this dude was natural back then, I'm a monkey's uncle. And I honestly couldn't care less what flack I get for this 'cos this is NOT what a natural tennis player looks like and it's clearly obvious why he looked like that back then. These days it's a different story, but back then...no sir. Shoulders, biceps and forearms like a bodybuilder. It's impossible to be that big naturally doing all the cardio tennis players do. So in that respect, it's clear why he had Roger's number.

Well I guess I'll make it 2 posts that needs to be deleted, but I concur! Those absences from the tour weren't for injuries and surgery but "under the table" suspensions! lol! :snicker :laydownlaughing :lolz: :angel: :dodgy: :cover

 

[Front242]

RE: Doha Tournament

That's the general consensus alright.