General Doping/PEDs Discussion

[Kieran]

Front, you posted a link where you claimed the Pope said there were Italian players doping.

But he didn't say that, and you can't find anywhere in the link you posted to back up your assertion.

What's not to understand in all this?

 

[Front242]

There are 185,000 athletes doping in Italy. Exactly, what's not to understand?

 

[Kieran]

There are 185,000 athletes doping in Italy. Exactly, what's not to understand?

Wait. Please. Go back.

Did the Pope say what you claimed he said?

 

[Front242]

Don't be naive. Seems to me that the problem here with yourself and tented is I struck a nerve as we all know Spain is the worst offender in Europe when it comes to doping but continue to be naive and believe that out of 185,000 doping athletes not one plays tennis! Clearly Italy isn't a whole lot better :cover

 

[Kieran]

It's a basic question. Very straight forward.

Did the Pope say in the article what you alleged that he said?

Yes, or no?

 

[tented]

Don't be naive. Seems to me that the problem here with yourself and tented is I struck a nerve as we all know Spain is the worst offender in Europe when it comes to doping but continue to be naive and believe that out of 185,000 doping athletes not one plays tennis! Clearly Italy isn't a whole lot better :cover

We're not being naive, nor have you hit a nerve.

We're asking you to back up the claims you've made, and you keep dodging it.

- Where in that article did the Pope state there's a doping problem in tennis?

- Where in that book you cited did it state there's a doping problem in tennis?

You claim both state that, but have yet to point out even one sentence from either to back up your claims.

 

[Front242]

It's a basic question. Very straight forward.

Did the Pope say in the article what you alleged that he said?

Yes, or no?

It's a basic matter of common sense and reading between the lines. He's no idiot and knows what's happening but yourself and tented are just playing dumb here. For the record, Spain's sport's minister acknowledges Spain have a doping problem. The Pope knows it's an issue in Italy too but didn't spell it out for all the dummies so you have to put 2 and 2 together. It's really not rocket science.

http://espn.go.com/olympics/story/_/id/7573907/spain-doping-problem-nation-sports-minister-says

 

[tented]

It's a basic question. Very straight forward.

Did the Pope say in the article what you alleged that he said?

Yes, or no?

It's a basic matter of common sense and reading between the lines.

So that would be "no", correct?

And for the record, "common sense and reading between the lines" doesn't justify falsely attributing statements to people who never said them. That's libel.

 

[Front242]

Whatever, I give up. Continue to believe that out of 185,000 doping athletes not even 1 plays tennis and I'll go back to the really real world here.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Jesus. Front is still going on this crusade?

 

[brokenshoelace]

Why else would he tell them not to cheat unless it's obvious they already are.

Wait, your source of knowledge on all things tennis and doping is now...the freaking pope? LMAO.

 

[Front242]

Some fine posts from you lately too like failing to read the IF in front of my post that if Kei Nishikori plays like last year he'll beat Murray. The word was IF. He didn't. It happens.

 

[Front242]

Decent article and well worth a read. Here are some key excerpts:

"The chemists will always win"
John Cook, a former coach with the Nike Oregon Project, did an interview with Runners World. It's a pretty interesting read.

Some excerpts:

"If you take the testing objectively, and you never fail a drug test, as far as the average person is concerned, if you’re negative, you’re negative, and that means you’re a good guy. But that’s not what’s happening...

"...The average fan remains ignorant in terms of it wanting to be that way and wanting it be “Chariots of Fire.” Some of the people I talk to when I’m on the treadmill or lifting weights don’t even know the athletes make money. And they think if [athletes] test negative, they’re as clean as white snow."

"...getting a Therapeutic Use Exemption for an inhaler can be very easily done. If I take you and run your ass up and down the stairs five or six or seven times, then take you into the doctor, you’re going to be asthmatic and fail the test, and you’re going to be allowed to take an inhaler."

"...The chemists will always win. It makes no difference what kind of program you design."

http://www.runnersworld.com/elite-runners/former-nike-oregon-project-coach-not-surprised-by-doping-allegations

If you see any tennis players out there puffing an inhaler, be suspicious.

 

[Kirijax]

This is a very touchy issue and I honestly don't know how to respond to any of it. You have to be blind to think that doping or whatever doesn't go on in tennis because it is a gruelling sport. The lower ranked guys get very little support (something the ATP needs to address) so if the injuries pile up or they have no support team, I can understand the temptations for "a little help on the side". That doesn't mean they should do it but it's a tough, tough world out there on the Challengers/Futures circuit.
And I hope and pray that none of the big names or slam winners ever succumb to that temptation. The doping/PED/steroids issue has left a gaping huge crater in major league baseball that it will probably carry around forever. May that never happen to tennis. The only way to keep that from happening is for the ATP/ITF/WTA and all the other alphabets to get it together and do it right. I'm not convinced that they are doing that good of job right now. Maybe they are looking but the bad guys always seem to be one step ahead.

 

[Front242]

Unfortunately they'll never be doing a good job as long as they continue to do the testing themselves. Unless WADA take over (and it doesn't appear they ever will) you can be sure there is corruption and doping in tennis. It's unfortunate but they don't seem to want to do anything about it.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

^^how is the bio passport going then ?, what do you think ?. is it having an effect ?.

or are atp/itf as corrupt as fifa ?.

 

[Front242]

^^how is the bio passport going then ?, what do you think ?. is it having an effect ?.

or are atp/itf as corrupt as fifa ?.

My own personal opinion is yes it's having an effect but also that they're as corrupt as Fifa so it's pretty much all in vain :s

 

[brokenshoelace]

^^how is the bio passport going then ?, what do you think ?. is it having an effect ?.

or are atp/itf as corrupt as fifa ?.

My own personal opinion is yes it's having an effect but also that they're as corrupt as Fifa so it's pretty much all in vain :s

That's a serious accusation that is supported by nothing at all. The ITF/ATP have done some shady things but as corrupt as FIFA? You're aware of what FIFA has done throughout the years, right?

 

[Front242]

Fair enough. I was replying to JLLB's post late at night and they're hardly as corrupt as FIFA but they're pretty damn corrupt too when you think of the way they don't test properly, make it look like they are then by banning world number 1058 for a failed test and a bunch of nobodies for match fixing, hand out silent bans to players and then try and deny it (Cilic being the one that most can relate to), they let pretty much all offenders off with a reduced sentence and almost always buy their "I bought an over the counter product that was contaminated" crap excuse which is the oldest and lamest excuse in the book. And of course if a top player has a problem with adhering to the rules they let you simply ban the umpire in question from their matches. Clearly FiFA's actions were way worse but I'm pretty certain A TON of bad stuff goes on behind closed doors with the ATP/ITF also.

Till they let WADA do the testing and it'll probably never happen, you can be sure players are not being tested properly (we have the figures available and they're not. Nowhere near enough out of competition random blood tests) and it's in the ITF and ATP's best interests to not potentially do irreparable damage to their sport by testing the top players properly 'cos a few failed tests would be the end of their sport just like cycling. They're aware of that and hence why they do nothing about it. I think we all agree that when a governing body are involved in their own sport's testing, it's not a good thing.

 

[Federberg]

^^how is the bio passport going then ?, what do you think ?. is it having an effect ?.

or are atp/itf as corrupt as fifa ?.

My own personal opinion is yes it's having an effect but also that they're as corrupt as Fifa so it's pretty much all in vain :s

That's a serious accusation that is supported by nothing at all. The ITF/ATP have done some shady things but as corrupt as FIFA? You're aware of what FIFA has done throughout the years, right?

I'm neutral in the discussion, but just an observation. There are two issues, scope and scale. FIFA have scale, if Front is right (and I'm not saying he is) then FIFA and the ATP/ITF could be comparable in scope if not in scale. Just a thought. Obviously without facts, it's just speculation