General Doping/PEDs Discussion

[GameSetAndMath]

In order to prevent hijacking of this thread from the question of how this issue was handled,
I am moving my concerns about them to the "forum questions" thread.

 

[tented]

^ Good idea.

Instead of deleting them, I've moved the meta-discussion posts to the Forum Questions thread, beginning here:

http://www.tennisfrontier.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=2831&pid=150793#pid150793

 

[Front242]

Just when you thought the ITF couldn't make tennis doping controls even more of a laughing stock they go and help the dopers even more for 2015. It's now possible to retroactively apply for a TUE (therapeutic use exemption) after testing positive :cover

See 7.5 below. Ridiculous beyond belief.

http://www.itftennis.com/media/194233/194233.pdf

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Just when you thought the ITF couldn't make tennis doping controls even more of a laughing stock they go and help the dopers even more for 2015. It's now possible to retroactively apply for a TUE (therapeutic use exemption) after testing positive :cover

See 7.5 below. Ridiculous beyond belief.

http://www.itftennis.com/media/194233/194233.pdf

This is ridiculous. If somebody is going through some therapy that might possibly affect
their test results, they should be required to inform the ITF when they start such a therapy
and not after they test positive. I would think this would be a common sense ruling.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Broken wasn't around when the doping policy was discussed, so he isn't aware of it. He's not trying to get people to do things in order to get them in trouble.

I'll post a copy here:

- Doping, PEDs, biological passports, etc. can and should be discussed, but within boundaries.

- Restrict conversation to threads specifically set up to discuss these topics, and do not let it become part of other threads.

- Don't name players unless they have been explicitly implicated through failed or refused test(s).

- If a player has had known contact with a doctor who has been caught doping, that fact can be mentioned, but no other conclusions can be drawn from it. No guilt by association.

- Don't accuse any governing organization (ATP, WTA, ITF, etc.) of being complicit in illegal activities (for example, knowing a player is doping, and hiding it).

- All attempts at spurious innuendo, or any posts outside of these guidelines will be deleted, and could result in a member receiving a warning.

According to the new rules formed by WADA, if an athlete is working with a doctor/trainer
who has been banned, the athlete himself or herself can be banned. Please see the following
new provisions that went into effect since the beginning of 2015.
A welcome move in cleaning up efforts.

 

[Front242]

^ Seems only fair as cheats never change and if the doctor/trainer has cheated before they're not gonna suddenly turn into Mother Teresa overnight so anyone they work with in future will be enlisting their help for obvious reasons. Usually these corrupt doctors/trainers know every way to cover up positive tests and the only way they get caught is when someone rats them out which sadly doesn't happen too often.

 

[Kieran]

I think it's positive that they're aiming to completely ostracise coaches and doctors who cheated in the past, and it's a good move in not only cleaning up sport, but showing clearly that they're cleaning it up. There's no logic to the argument that a player is contaminated simply by seeing a doctor whose record is contaminated - we shouldn't make stupid sweeping moral judgements based upon simplicity of thought - but still, this will go some way to moving the burden to be clean even further into the sport. Players teams will also have to be clean, and so this will make future approaches by dodgy docs towards players more difficult to make.

The other thing, the retrospective TUEs? That's a WTF moment. I'm struggling to see the logic. And it appears to be approved by WADA. It's not making sense to me...

 

[Front242]

Tennis - Sergio Giorgi, father to Camila Giorgi, shocks the world of tennis revealing how doping is a reality of the sport, much more than we´d all think.

"Doping in tennis exists. Some athletes have doctors who are able to cover them up, but it's easy to understand that it is there just looking at some WTA players' muscles or seeing the athletic capacity of some other players on the ATP tour. You see those things and you do understand that there is something going on. Controls are worthless. I also believe that athletes should be left the chance to dope if they want. I would obviously never allow Camila to do that, because doping can ruin your life and there is a lot more in life beside tennis. The sport is just a metaphor for life. In life there are those who cheat, it's like a jungle and you have to be ready to defend yourself".

http://www.tennisworldusa.org/Sergio-Giorgi-Shocks-There-is-Doping-in-Tennis-articolo22334.html

 

[Front242]

Professor Sandro Donati, Wada consultant, trainer and author of "The Sport of Doping" interviewed during the last episode of Space Tennis on Radio Mana Mana Sport. The subject was obviously tennis and doping.

Use google translate to read the interview below if you don't speak Italian.

http://www.spaziotennis.com/2013/11/sandro-donati-il-tennis-e-il-doping

Interview in Italian for any Italian speakers.

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4yHYSkNwaQ0[/video]

 

[Front242]

Has the biological passport delivered clean or confused sport?

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/cycling/29959937

 

[Front242]

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2015/01/28/anti-doping-agencies-are-failing-in-assessing-the-scale-of-the-drugs-problem-280101/

 

[Front242]

Former No. 1 Rios asks for doping check of Korda from 1998. Interesting. Would be eye opening if the retro sample tests positive now.

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2015/03/former-no-1-rios-asks-for-doping-check-of-korda-from-1998/54258/#.VPjFAi5VV0I

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Former No. 1 Rios asks for doping check of Korda from 1998. Interesting. Would be eye opening if the retro sample tests positive now.

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2015/03/former-no-1-rios-asks-for-doping-check-of-korda-from-1998/54258/#.VPjFAi5VV0I

Do they have a stored retro sample? If so, why did not they check it after Korda was found
of drug violations following Wimbledon.

 

[Kirijax]

Tennis has a whole lot more to lose than to gain by going back 17 years to check a drug sample. If one even exists that is. The saving grace about this is that Rios absolutely sucked donkey balls really hard that day and has no chance whatsoever of saying he deserved the AO title.

 

[August]

Former No. 1 Rios asks for doping check of Korda from 1998. Interesting. Would be eye opening if the retro sample tests positive now.

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2015/03/former-no-1-rios-asks-for-doping-check-of-korda-from-1998/54258/#.VPjFAi5VV0I

Do they have a stored retro sample? If so, why did not they check it after Korda was found
of drug violations following Wimbledon.

Almost surely they don't have a sample anymore. I remember these retro samples only since 2012 when they re-tested the 2004 Olympics samples, as the 8-year period for testing was ending. I think storing samples was allowed only in around 2004.

Another thing is if Korda had some other doping violation, for example being not able to get tested, and there'd be some proof about that. Or if there were some suspect or even proof of the ITF/ATP having covered up a doping case. Let's not forget the recent claims of the UCI having covered up Lance Armstrong's PED use.

Tennis has a whole lot more to lose than to gain by going back 17 years to check a drug sample. If one even exists that is. The saving grace about this is that Rios absolutely sucked donkey balls really hard that day and has no chance whatsoever of saying he deserved the AO title.

Surely it would be a big hit on tennis if a doping scandal emerged and I'm sceptical the ITF/ATP/WTA would themselves expose failed doping control. But if there's been any significant PED use that may even have won big titles, then I hope it gets exposed and the cheats stripped off from their achievements. Surely it would hit the sport's reputation but that might be needed for a sport with such a scandalous past. I doubt a sport with a drug past can become clean by themselves if they didn't face a doping scandal. And I'm not talking about tennis but whatever sport, sports I hope there are only few. A doping scandal may be the only thing that forces that sport to be serious against doping. That makes them realize it's better to have some occasional doping cases even among top athletes in a sport that's 99% clean that to be on the way to a doping scandal in a sport that's 99% doping.

 

[Front242]

I very much doubt tennis is even remotely close to being 99% clean sadly.

 

[Front242]

Seeing as no one posted this I said I would. Murray though should stfu. Yes he was asked about it but his comments are a bit ridiculous, Odesnik is the only bad guy in tennis, blah blah.

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2015/03/odesnik-banned-15-years-for-2nd-doping-violation/54376/#.VQnzRuFVV0I

 

[tented]

Seeing as no one posted this I said I would. Murray though should stfu. Yes he was asked about it but his comments are a bit ridiculous, Odesnik is the only bad guy in tennis, blah blah.

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2015/03/odesnik-banned-15-years-for-2nd-doping-violation/54376/#.VQnzRuFVV0I

You need to read more closely before making such claims. At no point in this article does Murray state "Odesnik is the only bad guy in tennis."

 

[Kirijax]

Seeing as no one posted this I said I would. Murray though should stfu. Yes he was asked about it but his comments are a bit ridiculous, Odesnik is the only bad guy in tennis, blah blah.

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2015/03/odesnik-banned-15-years-for-2nd-doping-violation/54376/#.VQnzRuFVV0I

Surprised that Murray was so outspoken about it (ok not that surprised) but I agree with what he said.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Now that they banned him for the next 15 years, they can tantalize him by telling him that
they will cut the ban by half if he "cooperates" with the authorities. :devil