Federer, Nadal, and the question of GOATness in general...

[Carol]

I wonder if there are any Nadal fans who aren't so ridiculously stubborn that they can't have a simple meaningful conversation about universally accepted facts. Have you had any luck?

When there is an interesting, good and normal conversation then we can have a simple meaningful conversation, otherwise it's impossible

 

[mrzz]

Cmon are you gonna be this difficult? You're picking a match where Nadal is playing at his near best form and Kei at his near worst? How about picking a match where his opponent is at a respectable level. For every match he's hit more winners than his opponent, you can probably find ten where he's well below his opponent. So far below infact that the ATP should dock him points for it.

I did not picked that. It was the first one I found. Actually it is not that easy (as ATP do not put up those particular stats). But I found another one, the Dimitrov match in MC. 21 winners to 12. Well, that's 2 matches. Now you need to find 198 to counter that.

 

[DarthFed]

The fact that Darth is arguing with Carol and not this guy shows how far our biases take us.

Hey now, this ain't my battle. I'm enjoying this tangent

 

[monfed]

I did not picked that. It was the first one I found. Actually it is not that easy (as ATP do not put up those particular stats). But I found another one, the Dimitrov match in MC. 21 winners to 12. Well, that's 2 matches. Now you need to find 198 to counter that.

Hey man you wanna keep living in the dark, knock yourself out.

 

[monfed]

To illustrate what I'm saying about dull's anti-tennis - A great example is cricket where Ashley Giles started bowling around the wicket left arm offspin to Tendulkar's legs so that he couldn't score any runs. It was a negative line he was bowling and the umpires had to stop him from doing it otherwise he just wouldn't stop. I'm sure there tards who would justify that kindof tactic but luckily the umpires in cricket aren't as corrupt and spineless as tennis and they shut it down.

 

[mrzz]

Hey man you wanna keep living in the dark, knock yourself out.

Actually I tried that already. I got so pissed on court last week that I punched myself in the head. Could not knock my self out but my head still hurts.

 

[Moxie]

@monfed: Your avatar says it all: You're a troll. And you admit to being banned from other sites. To my fellow Frontiersmen and women...I'd disengage. This is a waste of time.

 

[monfed]

@monfed: Your avatar says it all: You're a troll. And you admit to being banned from other sites. To my fellow Frontiersmen and women...I'd disengage. This is a waste of time.

I guess the jury's out on this one.

 

[Moxie]

I guess the jury's out on this one.

But you've been in the docket before. You come to stir trouble.

 

[The_Grand_Slam]

I guess the jury's out on this one.

MTF right?

What was the reason given?

So many trolls are not banned despite repeated doping accusations.

Heck, the admin a resident Djokovic fan made some accusations which was not even in ruins.

 

[monfed]

But you've been in the docket before. You come to stir trouble.

It feels like trouble for clueless dulltards like you. Like player like fanbase. Pathetic to the core.

 

[monfed]

MTF right?

What was the reason given?

So many trolls are not banned despite repeated doping accusations.

Heck, the admin a resident Djokovic fan made some accusations which was not even in ruins.

I don't want to discuss the specifics about my ban but "personal attack" is the reason listed, apparently calling a known fedhater like 90s clay out on his double standards qualifies as a personal attack these days. Calling a stupid person a clown is not a personal attack.

 

[monfed]

When there is an interesting, good and normal conversation then we can have a simple meaningful conversation, otherwise it's impossible

HAHAHAHA your Nadal worshipping cult is incapable of having a common sense discussion about tennis let alone the GOAT topic. It's sad that a once in a lifetime gem like Federer got a scandalous tyrant of an opponent like Nadull and his pathetic tardbase that has no knowledge about tennis.

 

[monfed]

One thing I do agree with is that the GOAT in individual sports is easier to determine than team sports. However, even in individual sports it is not always cut and dry and tennis is one of those with pre-open era players as well as the fact the AO was not a priority for top players until the mid 80's or later.

I don't follow golf enough to know if things have changed to affect the comparison of Woods to Nicklaus and earlier golfers but I am still surprised so many consider Woods greater. I think the word "better" is more fitting since Woods is far behind in majors and probably isn't catching up but again I don't follow golf.

Team sport GOAT's is very hard to determine usually. The fact Jordan is considered by an overwhelming majority to be the greatest basketball player shows how amazing he was. Yes there are some that will say it's someone else but there aren't many. Football doesn't really have a GOAT though Brady probably gets the nod for quarterbacks and many would say Jerry Rice as an overall player but QB is way more important than WR or any other position and that makes the argument even more difficult.

I do disagree that "eye test" and perceived skill level should play a role in GOAT and I say that as a Federer fan. If Nadal passes Roger in slams he probably should be considered greater while the argument may still remain that Federer was the "better" player given his level of dominance and all-around game. Again there is that key difference.

Harvesting RG every year with zero competition to pad up his slam count and then vulturing the odd USO with a joke draw and tampered surface doesn't make him GOAT. Nadal can never ever be GOAT. He just isn't GOAT worthy player. If he equals Fed's slam count, a permanent stain will be on tennis but he will never be considered GOAT (besides his cult obviously).

 

[Moxie]

There is a difference between a partisan, even an irritating one, and a troll. The worst partisans can be tedious in general conversation. The troll is completely disruptive of it, hogs it and spoils all good discourse.

 

[Carol]

HAHAHAHA your Nadal worshipping cult is incapable of having a common sense discussion about tennis let alone the GOAT topic. It's sad that a once in a lifetime gem like Federer got a scandalous tyrant of an opponent like Nadull and his pathetic tardbase that has no knowledge about tennis.

Are you dumb or you are just joking? look who is talking about worshipping cult and having a common sense discussion about tennis when the only thing you are trying to do is to discredit a great champion and just because the amount of times that he has beaten your idol and HOPE he will do again and again, TROLL!

 

[Carol]

Harvesting RG every year with zero competition to pad up his slam count and then vulturing the odd USO with a joke draw and tampered surface doesn't make him GOAT. Nadal can never ever be GOAT. He just isn't GOAT worthy player. If he equals Fed's slam count, a permanent stain will be on tennis but he will never be considered GOAT (besides his cult obviously).

JAJAJAJA, look who is talking about 0 competition. Look troll, check first he "big competition" of the HC 2017 and later talk if you can, what a *****
This is really a waste of time or maybe it's better to take it like a joke or entertainment? or simply to send him to hell? one or another

 

[monfed]

Getting back on topic, I think it's a bit unfortunate that dull will add more weeks at #1 after his clay harvestation. Grass season can't come soon enough.

 

[monfed]

JAJAJAJA, look who is talking about 0 competition. Look troll, check first he "big competition" of the HC 2017 and later talk if you can, what a *****
This is really a waste of time or maybe it's better to take it like a joke or entertainment? or simply to send him to hell? one or another

Clay season is like a cover band in a major concert. You're trying to like it but struggling to and can't wait for the main act i.e Federer to start playing on the beautiful green grass.

 

[mrzz]

See, monfed, I get caught between two fires. I am a huge Federer admirer, but I grew up playing on clay, and I love the surface. I know all the subtleties and difficulties one has to face to play on it. What would you do in my place?