Djokovic Fans thread

britbox

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Richard Krajicek says Novak is the GOAT.

The Dutchman thinks despite the 7 major difference, Djokovic competes at a higher level.

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<a class="embedly-card" href="https://www.tennisworldusa.org/tennis/news/Roger_Federer/62761/richard-krajicek-explains-why-novak-djokovic-is-the-goat-over-roger-federer/">Richard Krajicek explains why Novak Djokovic is the GOAT over Roger Federer</a><script async src="//cdn.embedly.com/widgets/platform.js" charset="UTF-8"></script>

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DarthFed

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The H2H with Berdych is 20-6. Yes, Berdy beat him at a few big moments, but not really that much of a threat, overall. Djokovic is and has been, of course, but you always insist that he beat "geriatric" Fed, when pressed by Novak's fans. Realistically, you could dislike Djokovic a lot, given your reasons for disliking Rafa: he's quite the backstop, he runs endlessly and endures long, long matches. He's a notable time-waster, too. He's made unseemly gestures at ball kids and had plenty of arguments with umps. He had a mid career surge that makes him more suspect than Rafa, and yet you don't endlessly harp on that. Roger even clearly disliked him at a certain point in their careers. But from you...a total pass. It's very clear why. I still say that your hatred of Nadal is based on his records against Roger, and records that stand as better than Roger's. There is no one who blights Fed's resume they way Rafa does, so it's clear why you hate him, and spend so much time in a smear campaign against him. You also hate Ferrer and Simon? Oh, that makes up for it then. B-)

Same bullshit response as I expected. Berdych beat Roger 5 out of 8 times from 2010-2013 including the only 2 meetings at majors. That definitely qualifies as a big thorn over an extended period of time. I don't "insist" that Novak beat up on geriatric Federer. It's a fact, and let's not act like it's debateable unless tennis players in their mid to late 30's are supposed to be at their best.

Novak had a "mid-career" surge? So coming into your own at age 23 is now a mid-career surge. Novak did have serious breathing issues. It's possible he took some hot sauce and it's also possible they figured it out with gluten-free diet and other things. Sorry but I am naturally more suspicious of an 18 year old that looked like he could play in the NFL who already had unparalleled stamina. Especially when said player lost a lot of muscle in his 20's. I don't really care about bad behavior on court unless it is gamesmanship or cheating. Guys can swear at umps if they feel they are getting shafted. Guys can verbally abuse ball boys if they really screw up like we saw in YEC. If they can't handle it don't sign up for the job.
 

Ricardo

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Richard Krajicek says Novak is the GOAT.

The Dutchman thinks despite the 7 major difference, Djokovic competes at a higher level.

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<a class="embedly-card" href="https://www.tennisworldusa.org/tennis/news/Roger_Federer/62761/richard-krajicek-explains-why-novak-djokovic-is-the-goat-over-roger-federer/">Richard Krajicek explains why Novak Djokovic is the GOAT over Roger Federer</a><script async src="//cdn.embedly.com/widgets/platform.js" charset="UTF-8"></script>

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Actually Novak competes at more consistent level but his peak tennis is less than Feds, or Wawrinka...or Safins etc. His best tennis is lockdown style, but the most offensive players playing their A game cannot be defended against.
 

Moxie

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Same bullshit response as I expected. Berdych beat Roger 5 out of 8 times from 2010-2013 including the only 2 meetings at majors. That definitely qualifies as a big thorn over an extended period of time. I don't "insist" that Novak beat up on geriatric Federer. It's a fact, and let's not act like it's debateable unless tennis players in their mid to late 30's are supposed to be at their best.

Novak had a "mid-career" surge? So coming into your own at age 23 is now a mid-career surge. Novak did have serious breathing issues. It's possible he took some hot sauce and it's also possible they figured it out with gluten-free diet and other things. Sorry but I am naturally more suspicious of an 18 year old that looked like he could play in the NFL who already had unparalleled stamina. Especially when said player lost a lot of muscle in his 20's. I don't really care about bad behavior on court unless it is gamesmanship or cheating. Guys can swear at umps if they feel they are getting shafted. Guys can verbally abuse ball boys if they really screw up like we saw in YEC. If they can't handle it don't sign up for the job.
Same bullshit response I expected. Weak. :drums:
 

DarthFed

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Same bullshit response I expected. Weak. :drums:

How original. You're losing your touch. You can at least admit you're wrong about the period that Berdych was causing Federer a lot of problems. You must not remember the boards but I was not the only Fed fan that didn't want to see Tomas in his draw for awhile.
 
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Moxie

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How original. You're losing your touch. You can at least admit you're wrong about the period that Berdych was causing Federer a lot of problems. You must not remember the boards but I was not the only Fed fan that didn't want to see Tomas in his draw for awhile.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, Darth. No, I do remember that, in fact. But it was largely misplaced, and went on far longer than it should have, even you have to admit that. It was the other bit that was especially weak.
 

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How original. You're losing your touch. You can at least admit you're wrong about the period that Berdych was causing Federer a lot of problems. You must not remember the boards but I was not the only Fed fan that didn't want to see Tomas in his draw for awhile.

Someone tell me WTF is going on? Is it because we're in the offseason and people have little to nothing else to do but kvetch, malign, and bully one another? I come here to express ideas, extoll some tennis history, and comment on the potential of the Next Gen! This has gotten so ugly of late, it's enough to just wait for the AO to begin next month! Sheesshh! :nono: :facepalm: :banghead: :cuckoo: :help: :negative: :eek: :sick:
 

DarthFed

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Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, Darth. No, I do remember that, in fact. But it was largely misplaced, and went on far longer than it should have, even you have to admit that. It was the other bit that was especially weak.

Largely misplaced because Roger has now turned it around and is on a huge winning streak vs Berdych. That's called hindsight. It was clearly not misplaced for the few years that Berdych clearly got the better of Federer. The point is I wasn't hating on Tomas even when he was cleaning Roger's clock for the better part of 4 seasons...

As for the rest...how so. Do you see how it's misleading errrr. wrong to say a 23 year old had a mid-career surge?????
 

Moxie

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Largely misplaced because Roger has now turned it around and is on a huge winning streak vs Berdych. That's called hindsight. It was clearly not misplaced for the few years that Berdych clearly got the better of Federer. The point is I wasn't hating on Tomas even when he was cleaning Roger's clock for the better part of 4 seasons...

As for the rest...how so. Do you see how it's misleading errrr. wrong to say a 23 year old had a mid-career surge?????
Djokovic turned pro in 2003. 2011 was 8 years later. 8 years since then is the beginning of next season. I doubt he'll play another 8 years, so, yes, that is around his early-middle career. Whenever I have asked you to give me a reason that Nadal would dope, you've always said something limp about tennis being lucrative and fame being alluring. Which, as I have said applies then to everyone in tennis as a motivation. Yet, when you have Djokovic, in a 3-year drought at Majors and stuck beneath the Fedal glass ceiling, you're fine with the gluten-free diet explanation. And when Roger takes off 7 months and then comes back almost immediately to win a major after 4.5 years without one, you're fine with the R&R explanation and the stronger backhand, after all of those years, and at 35. As I have said, I can buy those explanations, too, but when you're looking at motivations, you don't apply a very logical or fair standard for all players. Djokovic would have been frustrated by his lack of results, and Federer, later, would have been looking at Nadal and Djokovic threatening to eclipse his Major count, but the only motivation you buy into is Nadal's wanting fame & money, even though at 16, 17 and 18 he was already having very good results. Your reasoning is your own eye test that he had a very buff body, and a lot of stamina...not really that outrageous in a young man and a professional athlete, I might add. BTW, this is a part of your argument I never get: you said that later he slimmed down. So when, by your estimation, did he stop doping? And if you believe he did, how is it that he still wins Majors and other big titles? You never seem to buy the idea that he slimmed down a bit to take pressure off the knees. You also don't seem to see that he's still pretty buff.

All I've ever asked you to do is to apply the same standards to all players when you're going to accuse doping. You don't. And when I make compelling arguments for you re: Nadal, you blithely ignore them and go on making accusations. I really don't care what you go on believing in your own biased brain, but when you keep making the same false claims in public, I will fight you. If you can't see that your standards are wildly unfair and disproportionately handed out, then hopefully others, at least, will.
 

Moxie

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Someone tell me WTF is going on? Is it because we're in the offseason and people have little to nothing else to do but kvetch, malign, and bully one another? I come here to express ideas, extoll some tennis history, and comment on the potential of the Next Gen! This has gotten so ugly of late, it's enough to just wait for the AO to begin next month! Sheesshh! :nono: :facepalm: :banghead: :cuckoo: :help: :negative: :eek: :sick:
You seem to have forgotten your posts a couple of pages back bad-mouthing Toni Nadal and calling Rafa an a-hole, amongst other bad things you said about his character and his game. I was looking for some clarity on the Toni article, when you decided to trade in some character assassination. If you're going to malign Nadal, I will respond. Sure, maybe it is because it's the off-season, so we're rubbing over old stories and battles, but don't act like you didn't add some nastiness to the tone, ok? Me, I like a little tussle. I thought that's why we were here. :D:boxing:
 
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DarthFed

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Djokovic turned pro in 2003. 2011 was 8 years later. 8 years since then is the beginning of next season. I doubt he'll play another 8 years, so, yes, that is around his early-middle career. Whenever I have asked you to give me a reason that Nadal would dope, you've always said something limp about tennis being lucrative and fame being alluring. Which, as I have said applies then to everyone in tennis as a motivation. Yet, when you have Djokovic, in a 3-year drought at Majors and stuck beneath the Fedal glass ceiling, you're fine with the gluten-free diet explanation. And when Roger takes off 7 months and then comes back almost immediately to win a major after 4.5 years without one, you're fine with the R&R explanation and the stronger backhand, after all of those years, and at 35. As I have said, I can buy those explanations, too, but when you're looking at motivations, you don't apply a very logical or fair standard for all players. Djokovic would have been frustrated by his lack of results, and Federer, later, would have been looking at Nadal and Djokovic threatening to eclipse his Major count, but the only motivation you buy into is Nadal's wanting fame & money, even though at 16, 17 and 18 he was already having very good results. Your reasoning is your own eye test that he had a very buff body, and a lot of stamina...not really that outrageous in a young man and a professional athlete, I might add. BTW, this is a part of your argument I never get: you said that later he slimmed down. So when, by your estimation, did he stop doping? And if you believe he did, how is it that he still wins Majors and other big titles? You never seem to buy the idea that he slimmed down a bit to take pressure off the knees. You also don't seem to see that he's still pretty buff.

All I've ever asked you to do is to apply the same standards to all players when you're going to accuse doping. You don't. And when I make compelling arguments for you re: Nadal, you blithely ignore them and go on making accusations. I really don't care what you go on believing in your own biased brain, but when you keep making the same false claims in public, I will fight you. If you can't see that your standards are wildly unfair and disproportionately handed out, then hopefully others, at least, will.

So you are seriously counting 2003 when he was 15-16 years old and playing frickin challenger tournaments. Look, he was not remotely relevant until 2006 when he turned 19. And then it was a swift climb up through the middle of 2008 where he slightly regressed for a couple years. Calling 2011 anywhere near the middle of his career is just completely misleading. The norm is for players to start peaking around then. The middle of Novak's career is likely going to end up being 2014 or 2015 when you count 2006 as the true beginning. Roger similarly was irrelevant his first couple years from 1998 - 2000. Obviously he is ancient and still playing so the middle of his career may end up being 2010 or 2011 which is pretty crazy. But even if he retired in early-mid 30's like most players the middle of his career would have been 2008 or so at age 27.

As for the rest, I've gone over it a lot and it never sticks. Every athlete has motivation to cheat regardless of circumstances. Fed, Nadal, Djoker, Gilles Simon, a talented 15 year old player with pro aspirations. EVERYONE! This of course doesn't mean they have or will cheat but your main point is that some athletes don't have motivation to do it.

You fail to even recognize an obvious fact and that makes the conversation pointless.
 
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Moxie

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So you're saying they all cheat.
 

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Nole'll start his 2019 season in Doha
 

Moxie

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They all have the incentive. Not everyone gives in of course. Most don't.
And I've never said there is no motivation to cheat. I acknowledge that, despite what you keep saying, over and over. I'm merely giving you relative motivations in specific cases. What makes you so mad is that I don't give in to your motivation reasoning in terms of Nadal...I don't say he has had none, I only say that the generalized one you look for is weak, and it applied less to him than others when he was 18 years old, when is when you insist that he doped. I'm fine if you say that everyone has a motivation, but most don't cheat. What I don't agree with is how much you trust your own judgement on this over reasonable assessments of motivation by individual. If you think most don't/haven't, you really should include Nadal in that assessment. He has had less motivation than most, as I have laid out to you time and again. (Btw, you failed to answer as to when you think he stopped doping. :lulz2: Let's be real...you just flail around with these theories, and just keep hoping something sticks, if you keep saying it.)

As to Djokovic, I don't know who you get to decide the length of his career. He did turn pro in 2003. I said that 2011 could be considered early-mid-career, but I don't see how it's really earlier than that. And any player over 30 is really into later-career. No one says that Wawrinka's career began when he started competing for big titles, for example. He is considered a late-career achiever. You're trying too hard to make me wrong on by saying "mid-career surge." In any case, it doesn't change the points I made about motivation to go up a notch, a point you completely passed over. You use your "sniff" test rather selectively.
 

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