Covid vaccine - opinions?

[Front242]

Some rather concerning points from Alex Berenson:

AN URGENT WARNING

The world's most mRNA vaccinated countries now have shockingly high Covid infection rates. Hospitalizations and deaths are rising fast too. The mRNA experiment needs to stop. Immediately.

alexberenson.substack.com

ADE 100% All the people I know who had Omicron are either double or triple vaxxed and all got it way worse than any people I know that are unvaxxed. Myself and our 2 kids had zero symptoms. All unvaxxed. Wouldn't vaccinate kids for this in a million years. They'll still catch it and it won't do anything to them or most people for that matter. My wife while still nothing major had it worse (obviously since we had no symptoms) but is double vaxxed but her vitamin d levels are extremely low so maybe that's why. Either that or a massive proportion of the population have poor vitamin d levels and just poor immune systems which is also very possible.

 

[Front242]

Quebec is absurd:

Quebec: Unvaxxed Must Be 'Accompanied At All Times' by Store Escort Upon Entering Walmart, Costco to Use Pharmacy

Quebec's new insane vaccine passport scheme banning the unvaccinated from big-box stores like Walmart and Costco provides exceptions only for 'groceries and pharmacies,' th

www.informationliberation.com

Whoever brought in those rules needs the guillotine. Pronto.

 

[Jelenafan]

Interesting study from Malawi:

Africa may have reached the pandemic's holy grail

New findings from Malawi suggest the country has entered something akin to the endemic stage of the pandemic — along with many other African nations.

www.capradio.org

 

[El Dude]

Interesting study from Malawi:

Africa may have reached the pandemic's holy grail

New findings from Malawi suggest the country has entered something akin to the endemic stage of the pandemic — along with many other African nations.

www.capradio.org

About 5% of Africa is vaccinated, and they have the lowest covid rates--by far--of any continent (even Antarctica!). Natural immunity, I guess.

Also, I suspect vitamin D plays a huge factor - more sun, generally speaking. And, as the article says, a younger population.

 

[tented]

Why Denmark Is Done With COVID (For Now)

 

[Kieran]

Why Denmark Is Done With COVID (For Now)

Sounds like the most sane place on Earth...

 

[Front242]

Sounds like the most sane place on Earth...

When there was talk of mandatory vaccination here, Denmark was top of my list of potential places to move to. Great standard of living there too. Still, hopefully the mandating ideas are behind us at this stage. Insane they've brought it in over in Austria now that Omicron is the dominant strain. Can't be about health at all.

 

[Kieran]

When there was talk of mandatory vaccination here, Denmark was top of my list of potential places to move to. Great standard of living there too. Still, hopefully the mandating ideas are behind us at this stage. Insane they've brought it in over in Austria now that Omicron is the dominant strain. Can't be about health at all.

I think Austria have pulled back from that, no? I might be wrong. Italy are still pushing it though, destroying peoples lives and livelihoods, and I wonder what’s the future for the EU when freedom of movement across borders citizens of the EU becomes less free?

It’s ridiculous that we have some countries who are dropping all restrictions, and others who are actually going full on totalitarian with forcing vaccines on their citizens. This is no longer about “The Science”, or even any attempt to pretend that it is…

 

[Kieran]

When there was talk of mandatory vaccination here, Denmark was top of my list of potential places to move to. Great standard of living there too. Still, hopefully the mandating ideas are behind us at this stage. Insane they've brought it in over in Austria now that Omicron is the dominant strain. Can't be about health at all.

I was wrong on this, brother - and you were right. Austria has gone for it, with penalties going as high as €3,600. And yet - their vaccination rate is low already. Taxing the unvaccinated in this way, to leverage them into violating their principles and taking into their bodies something they've refused to take is fairly difficult to defend. I'd love to hear an argument in favour of it:

Compulsory vaccination rules come into force in Austria

Compulsory vaccination against Covid-19 for all those aged over the age of 18 comes into force in Austria today, an unprecedented measure in the European Union.

www.rte.ie

 

[Kieran]

Is there any discussion in America about changing the requirements for entry, with regards to the vaccine? Currently visitors need to be vaccinated, but will that change any day soon?

I know there’s a procedure to get a waiver but that seems to be difficult to achieve?

 

[Moxie]

Is there any discussion in America about changing the requirements for entry, with regards to the vaccine? Currently visitors need to be vaccinated, but will that change any day soon?

I know there’s a procedure to get a waiver but that seems to be difficult to achieve?

They only just started the requirement in Jan. 2022, so I don't see it being lifted anytime soon. There is no talk of it, like, say the mandate to wear masks on public transportation, which is federal law and has been extended into May, but will end pretty soon, and is discussed. No one seems much to care that non-citizens need a vaccination to enter the US. Or much to even know it.

These are the exemptions:

Categories of noncitizen, nonimmigrants that meet the criteria for an exception under the proclamation and CDC’s Amended Order include:

• Persons on diplomatic or official foreign government travel
• Children under 18 years of age
• Persons with documented medical contraindications to receiving a COVID-19 vaccine
• Participants in certain COVID-19 vaccine trials
• Persons issued a humanitarian or emergency exception
• Persons with valid visas [excluding B-1 (business) or B-2 (tourism) visas] who are citizens of a foreign country with limited COVID-19 vaccine availability (See list effective as of April 14, 2022)
• Members of the U.S. Armed Forces or their spouses or children (under 18 years of age)
• Sea crew members traveling pursuant to a C-1 and D nonimmigrant visa
• Persons whose entry would be in the national interest, as determined by the Secretary of State, Secretary of Transportation, or Secretary of Homeland Security (or their designees)

If you are a noncitizen, nonimmigrant who does not fall under any of these exceptions, you must show proof of being fully vaccinated before boarding a flight to the United States.

 

[Kieran]

They only just started the requirement in Jan. 2022, so I don't see it being lifted anytime soon. There is no talk of it, like, say the mandate to wear masks on public transportation, which is federal law and has been extended into May, but will end pretty soon, and is discussed. No one seems much to care that non-citizens need a vaccination to enter the US. Or much to even know it.

These are the exemptions:

Categories of noncitizen, nonimmigrants that meet the criteria for an exception under the proclamation and CDC’s Amended Order include:

• Persons on diplomatic or official foreign government travel
• Children under 18 years of age
• Persons with documented medical contraindications to receiving a COVID-19 vaccine
• Participants in certain COVID-19 vaccine trials
• Persons issued a humanitarian or emergency exception
• Persons with valid visas [excluding B-1 (business) or B-2 (tourism) visas] who are citizens of a foreign country with limited COVID-19 vaccine availability (See list effective as of April 14, 2022)
• Members of the U.S. Armed Forces or their spouses or children (under 18 years of age)
• Sea crew members traveling pursuant to a C-1 and D nonimmigrant visa
• Persons whose entry would be in the national interest, as determined by the Secretary of State, Secretary of Transportation, or Secretary of Homeland Security (or their designees)

If you are a noncitizen, nonimmigrant who does not fall under any of these exceptions, you must show proof of being fully vaccinated before boarding a flight to the United States.

Thanks for the reply. I had a feeling this was the case, and it’s a pity: I have a free ticket to New York in July if I can go - but I can’t. My vaccine cert is out of date, and I’m not getting a booster. Hopefully things will change there, but it won’t be in time for me…

 

[Moxie]

Thanks for the reply. I had a feeling this was the case, and it’s a pity: I have a free ticket to New York in July if I can go - but I can’t. My vaccine cert is out of date, and I’m not getting a booster. Hopefully things will change there, but it won’t be in time for me…

Oh, that's a shame! July is a ways off, though. But yeah, you do have to have the booster. Hope it turns around and I can buy you a beer!

 

[Kieran]

Oh, that's a shame! July is a ways off, though. But yeah, you do have to have the booster. Hope it turns around and I can buy you a beer!

Can’t see it changing before July, and I’m not getting the booster. They had their shot, and that’s all they get. But someday we’ll have that beer, dunno where, dunno when…

 

[Moxie]

I see we have tried to derail the Rankings Thread with vaccine talk, which does keep leaking into lots of threads, these days. So I bring it back here for fulsome debate. I think @Kieran and @Front242 have both claimed in recent days that the vaccine has not proven to prevent the spread of Covid 19. You say that without back-up so I offer you this thread to prove it, or make a good case, as nothing seems 100% in all of this.

The second part of this discussion is what to make of border regulations keeping out the unvaccinated. (Which in tennis mostly only means Novak Djokovic.) As has been said, the US Government is unlikely to change its position in time for the USOpen. Whether you agree or not with this position, on its merits, the US Government, and US Immigration has a lot on its plate. And Covid has been a real problem in the US, for many reasons. The US Government has no reason to reassess its policy vis-a-vis Covid and non-resident aliens. The easiest thing to do for now is to leave it as it is. You can like that or not, but it's just practical. There is no mandate or movement to change it.

Next point of contention is whether or not Australia changes its position on its ban of Novak from Australia for 3 years. Personally, I doubt it will last 3 years, before he gets out of Covid jail. But if I were a betting woman, I wouldn't lay money that they let him off this year coming up, even though they did change governments. There was a lot of bad feeling in Australia that Novak was trying to get by on privilege. And if he gets let off in January, it's going to feel like the same. Never even minding that he lied on his immigration forms. Maybe in 2024 all will be forgiven, but this January coming up looks like the same political quagmire, and I doubt it will go in Novak's favor.

 

[Kieran]

I see we have tried to derail the Rankings Thread with vaccine talk, which does keep leaking into lots of threads, these days. So I bring it back here for fulsome debate. I think @Kieran and @Front242 have both claimed in recent days that the vaccine has not proven to prevent the spread of Covid 19. You say that without back-up so I offer you this thread to prove it, or make a good case, as nothing seems 100% in all of this.

Not true. And you “say that without back-up.”

But bear in mind that the spread of covid is a moot point at this stage. The effect of the spread is what matters, and its effect has lessened to the extent that normal life can resume all over the EU and other parts of Europe, and the world.

The second part of this discussion is what to make of border regulations keeping out the unvaccinated. (Which in tennis mostly only means Novak Djokovic.) As has been said, the US Government is unlikely to change its position in time for the USOpen. Whether you agree or not with this position, on its merits, the US Government, and US Immigration has a lot on its plate. And Covid has been a real problem in the US, for many reasons. The US Government has no reason to reassess its policy vis-a-vis Covid and non-resident aliens. The easiest thing to do for now is to leave it as it is. You can like that or not, but it's just practical. There is no mandate or movement to change it.

Well, the fact that other countries now have no restrictions on entry, and our hospitals aren’t overrun, our death rates aren’t climbing, is actually a very good reason for the USA to at least ”reassess its policy vis-a-vis Covid and non-resident aliens.”

Now, all this might come back and bite us, but at the moment we’re “following the Science”, and it suggests that Covid is in the rear view mirror and we need to get back to living again.

“The easiest thing to do for now is to leave it as it is?”

This is also true with regards to the mutilation of teenage girls, and the chemical castration of boys who have just hit puberty, by trans activists masquerading as healthcare workers. It’s also true of gun control, and anything else that might be a huge problem, but doing nothing isn’t always the best thing to do. It’s often, in fact, the worst thing to do.

The best thing to do is to at least look at the policy and see if it’s working. From a tourist perspective at the very least, your economy will take a huge hit. And anyway , inevitably your country is going to have to eventually drop the requirement. Not only because the whole world isn’t into over medicating in the way the USA is. But because the rest of us are trying to move on from Covid, and you will have to as well. Americans aren’t going to want to be vaccinated against a non entity in decades to come. Non-Americans aren’t going to get vaccinated en masse just to travel to the USA. So a wise course is to constantly assess this.

Like I say, eventually things might change for the worst but for now we need to move on.

As for the vaccine and its efficacy, I got vaccinated and don’t regret it. Yet. We still don’t know if there are going to be long term negative effects. We do know that some people have had immediate negative effects. And most importantly we know that they rolled out a vaccine for mass populations without knowing enough about it, including it’s durability.

Next point of contention is whether or not Australia changes its position on its ban of Novak from Australia for 3 years. Personally, I doubt it will last 3 years, before he gets out of Covid jail. But if I were a betting woman, I wouldn't lay money that they let him off this year coming up, even though they did change governments. There was a lot of bad feeling in Australia that Novak was trying to get by on privilege. And if he gets let off in January, it's going to feel like the same. Never even minding that he lied on his immigration forms. Maybe in 2024 all will be forgiven, but this January coming up looks like the same political quagmire, and I doubt it will go in Novak's favor.

This isn’t an issue of contention for me.

Novak lied on his visa, he broke the laws in Serbia and everywhere else regarding isolating when you have covid, and he brought a bogus case against Australia that was designed to strong arm them into changing the law for him. I think if the usual punishment is 3 years banishment from the island, he’s earned at least 4 years…

 

[Kieran]

This is the problem, any bad behaviour from him & a high % of his fans on social media play the victim card. AO vaccine drama or the USO default it's always Djokovic has been treated badly. It's getting boring. On social media 7 months after the AO these same fans are still throwing cheap shots at Rafa trying to discredit his AO win

Djokovic is apparently a man of principle, good for him if it was true. He always wants the best of both worlds, he will stick up for his rights to not have the vaccine which he knows will cost him entry into the AO. Yet he still turns up to Australia to play. A man of principle exercising his freedom to refuse the vaccine would take the negative consequences of his actions & stay well away from Australia. If people like him didn't behave so recklessly at the start of the pandemic maybe things would never have got to the stage where we needed a vaccine & none of the AO drama would of ever happened....

Absolutely, and every word rings true. I know Novak fanboys accuse his critics of being fanboys and there’s some truth in this, but there are objective realities too, and one of them is that Novak fans insist he had a valid medical exemption to get into Australia whereas the evidence is wholly against this, from the Australian governments own website. This, they ignore.

I’m not simply referring to fans here on the forum but on social media, a lot his fans seem unwilling to concede that he played a devious role in all this, to the extent that even the validity of his covid test results were questioned by the BBC, on the basis of inconsistent test numbers.

This maybe because the tests were faked, but more likely it’s because he’s considered to be wholly unreliable a witness to his own actions during the pandemic, to the extent of putting others health in danger by acting so irresponsibly - and actually criminally - when he caught it.

Novak is a great and special athlete, he’s no victim, and he’d be better off not personalising the application of any country’s laws. They apply them to everybody the same. They applied to me, I recently was offered a freebie trip to NYC and couldn’t go because I didn’t get the booster. I didn’t try to bully my way in with lies, dodgy paperwork and my trademark Oirish charm…

 

[TheSicilian]

Absolutely, and every word rings true. I know Novak fanboys accuse his critics of being fanboys and there’s some truth in this, but there are objective realities too, and one of them is that Novak fans insist he had a valid medical exemption to get into Australia whereas the evidence is wholly against this, from the Australian governments own website. This, they ignore.

I’m not simply referring to fans here on the forum but on social media, a lot his fans seem unwilling to concede that he played a devious role in all this, to the extent that even the validity of his covid test results were questioned by the BBC, on the basis of inconsistent test numbers.

This maybe because the tests were faked, but more likely it’s because he’s considered to be wholly unreliable a witness to his own actions during the pandemic, to the extent of putting others health in danger by acting so irresponsibly - and actually criminally - when he caught it.

Novak is a great and special athlete, he’s no victim, and he’d be better off not personalising the application of any country’s laws. They apply them to everybody the same. They applied to me, I recently was offered a freebie trip to NYC and couldn’t go because I didn’t get the booster. I didn’t try to bully my way in with lies, dodgy paperwork and my trademark Oirish charm…

Agree 100% with the points you make.

Shame you couldn't go to NYC. Djokovic should learn from you... But I expect over the coming weeks we will have article after article about Djokovic trying every trick in the book to enter the USA

 

[Kieran]

Agree 100% with the points you make.

Shame you couldn't go to NYC. Djokovic should learn from you... But I expect over the coming weeks we will have article after article about Djokovic trying every trick in the book to enter the USA

It was a pity but I got over it fast once I knew it was impossible. Novak isn’t helped in this by McEnroe and other ill-informed tennis commentators. I actually hope America changes it’s laws soon - it will have to change them inevitably - but as they stand, Novak has a stark choice. Get jabbed or don’t go.

As you said above, it would have been admirable if Novak had actually stood by his principles in Australia but he chose not to…

 

[kskate2]

It was a pity but I got over it fast once I knew it was impossible. Novak isn’t helped in this by McEnroe and other ill-informed tennis commentators. I actually hope America changes it’s laws soon - it will have to change them inevitably - but as they stand, Novak has a stark choice. Get jabbed or don’t go.

As you said above, it would have been admirable if Novak had actually stood by his principles in Australia but he chose not to…

Yeah, I heard Mac on the replay saying "there's got to be a way around the rule". What! Is he sniffing some of Djoke's stuff? On national TV advocating for someone to try an end run around your own country's DHS (Dept of Homeland Security) policies. As if! Did they not learn anything from AO debacle?

I'm sorry you didn't get to come here. I went on a cruise last weekend and the whole sailing was vaxx. In fact, if you aren't boosted, you had to take your test within 2 days. Boosted passengers could take their test within 3 days. I had to wait until 2 days before.