Covid vaccine - opinions?

[Kieran]

Kieran.. I not going that silly rabbit hole with you in regards to the Science and you damn well I don't EVER agree with you about having the right of choice when your one choice can eventually affect thousands and ruin households. Don't ask open ended questions with zero merit. I find it very careless to try to politicize a vaccine with a right or choice because your issues with big Pharma and government mandates. I see you avoided my post about the lady with cancer which I assume you agree with me.

Those 3 questions are not political questions, nor do they politicise Covid - they’re basic questions relating to the effect of covid, based upon science.

I’m trying to figure out why you’re avoiding answering them. I’ve provided statistics from the CDC, WHO, Johns Hopkins, which are the basis for the questions.

If you trust the science, your answer is “yes” to all three questions.

Am I to take it that your answer is “yes?”

If you evade the questions once more, then I’ll have to categorise you as somebody who doesn’t trust the science, and I’ll be curious as to why not..,

 

[Front242]

So your solution is for people to quit smoking, exercise and eat healthy but no vaccine or mask mandates. So the pandemic will end 2022. 23, 24 or later in the decade? You are Kieran's residence MD and this should be something you are prepared to address very swiftly.

I said already yesterday I've no issue at all wearing masks where I'm told I have to. As for the rest of your posts, it's yet another wtf moment. I said healthy people for the most don't need any vaccines and it's up to them if they want to take it but it really isn't making any difference to them if they do as covid would neither put most in hospital or kill them. So, no, my solution said nothing about no vaccines. The only people who are likely to go to hospital or die from covid are the ones who need the vaccines in my opinion and that's also what we were told from the beginning before this turned to shit globally and money and corruption took over from common sense. Clearly though if there were more healthy people out there then less would die. It's not rocket science, man.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I said already yesterday I've no issue at all wearing masks where I'm told I have to. As for the rest of your posts, it's yet another wtf moment. I said healthy people for the most don't need any vaccines and it's up to them if they want to take it but it really isn't making any difference to them if they do as covid would neither put most in hospital or kill them. So, no, my solution said nothing about no vaccines.

But it doesn't make sense " The only people who are likely to go to hospital or die from covid are the ones who need the vaccines in my opinion and that's also what we were told from the beginning before".
You are only talking about reacting to a virus not preventing it. You have NO plan "but this turned to shit globally and money and corruption took over from common sense. Clearly though if there were more healthy people out there then less would die. It's not rocket science, man."

This is an airborne pathogen and your plan is to eat healthy and exercise. Wear masks but don't have mask mandates. Good Grief. And this is from a person who has done in his mind more research than the average "bear".

 

[the AntiPusher]

Those 3 questions are not political questions, nor do they politicise Covid - they’re basic questions relating to the effect of covid, based upon science.

I’m trying to figure out why you’re avoiding answering them. I’ve provided statistics from the CDC, WHO, Johns Hopkins, which are the basis for the questions.

If you trust the science, your answer is “yes” to all three questions.

Am I to take it that your answer is “yes?”

If you evade the questions once more, then I’ll have to categorise you as somebody who doesn’t trust the science, and I’ll be curious as to why not..,

No.. its not being evasive but rather not entertaining these open ended question that have zero merit. Everyone knows my stance. But again you have got to be the smartest person in the room and constantly trying to put words in my posts. Yet, your bloke wants us to eat healthy, take vitamins, exercise and if someone dies, they were going to succumb to something eventually. Good Grief

 

[Kieran]

No.. its not being evasive but rather not entertaining these open ended question that have zero merit. Everyone knows my stance. But again you have got to be the smartest person in the room and constantly trying to put words in my posts. Yet, your bloke wants us to eat healthy, take vitamins, exercise and if someone dies, they were going to succumb to something eventually. Good Grief

You’re the one who was putting words into Front’s mouth, so it’s ironic you say I’m doing that.

These are not “open ended questions” - they’re questions based on covid statistics, for which I’ve provided links from reputable sources.

You want to avoid them for a reason, but the problem is, the reason can only make you look like a bad faith player.

“Do you trust the science on covid, as presented by the CDC, the WHO, Johns Hopkins University?”

“I refuse to the question in case it incriminates me.”

But your refusal incriminates you, because if you don’t trust the CDC, the WHO and Johns Hopkins, then what science do you trust?

 

[Front242]

But it doesn't make sense " The only people who are likely to go to hospital or die from covid are the ones who need the vaccines in my opinion and that's also what we were told from the beginning before".
You are only talking about reacting to a virus not preventing it. You have NO plan "but this turned to shit globally and money and corruption took over from common sense. Clearly though if there were more healthy people out there then less would die. It's not rocket science, man."

This is an airborne pathogen and your plan is to eat healthy and exercise. Wear masks but don't have mask mandates. Good Grief. And this is from a person who has done in his mind more research than the average "bear".

Wtf is this nonsense ? We HAVE mask mandates over where I live. I haven't a clue what you're on about. Vaccines mandates on the other hand are a complete joke. I have NO plan you say? Well funnily enough, even if I did have some super duper idea, I'm not exactly able to do anything about it am I ? Do you think I'm Bill Gates' cousin or what?! What difference does it being airborne make to eating healthy and exercising ? The key to exercise and eating well is so that if you catch it you will brush it off easily like the 99.6% below. Once again, the official stats don't lie. This is from just now and I guess I have a black heart or I'm heartless for pointing out that 99.6% of the current global cases are in mild condition...

Active Cases

21,012,054
Currently Infected Patients
20,925,357 (99.6%)
in Mild Condition
86,697 (0.4%)
Serious or Critical

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

[Front242]

But it doesn't make sense " The only people who are likely to go to hospital or die from covid are the ones who need the vaccines in my opinion and that's also what we were told from the beginning before".
You are only talking about reacting to a virus not preventing it. You have NO plan "but this turned to shit globally and money and corruption took over from common sense. Clearly though if there were more healthy people out there then less would die. It's not rocket science, man."

This is an airborne pathogen and your plan is to eat healthy and exercise. Wear masks but don't have mask mandates. Good Grief. And this is from a person who has done in his mind more research than the average "bear".

Clearly you have NO plan either since there is no way to prevent a virus that's already present and since the vaccines don't stop transmission. They need proper ones not the leaky crap out there currently. It's not going away. It will and hopefully is getting weaker with this latest strain, however and then less people will die. I have plenty of plans btw and mostly it involves treatment when people get seriously sick instead of hoping the vaccine saves them and then sticking them on ventilators.

 

[the AntiPusher]

You’re the one who was putting words into Front’s mouth, so it’s ironic you say I’m doing that.

These are not “open ended questions” - they’re questions based on covid statistics, for which I’ve provided links from reputable sources.

You want to avoid them for a reason, but the problem is, the reason can only make you look like a bad faith player.

“Do you trust the science on covid, as presented by the CDC, the WHO, Johns Hopkins University?”

“I refuse to the question in case it incriminates me.”

But your refusal incriminates you, because if you don’t trust the CDC, the WHO and Johns Hopkins, then what science do you trust?

CDC and Tony Fauci.. Now answer my post regarding your catching covid. Are you scared or you agree with what I wrote

 

[Kieran]

CDC and Tony Fauci.. Now answer my post regarding your catching covid. Are you scared or you agree with what I wrote

No I’m not scared. I’ve never been scared of Covid, nor have I been scared of the vaccines.

But you agree with the CDC regarding the science?

Good. So then you answer “yes” to these two questions:

Do you accept that the older we get, the more in danger we are from covid?

Do you accept that a person with co-morbities and compromised immunity is more likely to be in danger from covid than one who is much more healthy?

It took a while, but we got there. I believe that you and Front and I are finally on the same page.

Thank you…

 

[the AntiPusher]

Clearly you have NO plan either since there is no way to prevent a virus that's already present and since the vaccines don't stop transmission. It's not going away. It will and hopefully is getting weaker with this latest strain, however and then less people will die. I have plenty of plans btw and mostly it involves treatment when people get seriously sick instead of hoping the vaccine saves them and then sticking them on ventilators.

My plan is hopefully either someone like yourself go get the vaccine vaccination shot because " you have a concern of infecting someone u give a fuck about " or that is you have been infected that you have built up antibodies to fight the virus. Either way, some sought of herd immunity will be achieved to eventually prevent the spread of the virus to a minimum. That's a plan.

However, What you have in place is a path for the virus to continue to grow and more variants will mutates because that what virus do doing a pandemic.

 

[Front242]

My plan is hopefully either someone like yourself go get the vaccine vaccination shot because " you have a concern of infecting someone u give a fuck about " or that is you have been infected that you have built up antibodies to fight the virus. Either way, some sought of herd immunity will be achieved to eventually prevent the spread of the virus to a minimum. That's a plan.

However, What you have in place is a path for the virus to continue to grow and more variants will mutates because that what virus do doing a pandemic.

Wrong. Mass vaccination during a so called pandemic is what is causing the variants. Seeing as the vaxxed can catch and transit covid it will mutate with them also. Many top scientists say herd immunity is impossible since delta so we'll see what happens if Omicron takes over.

We've been over this a ton of times, vaxxed catch and transit covid also and the vaccines don't even stop you catching it so me not being vaccinated makes zero difference to anyone but me and I'm not one bit scared of covid. My mum who is fit as a fiddle and 74 was up talking to me for 2 hours today and guess what, 2 years after covid came along I haven't killed her yet so enough with the nonsense and don't believe all the crap you see on lamestream media. It's unvaxxed who should be worried about vaxxed and not the other way round but the world is full of clueless people who can't grasp this.

 

[Moxie]

Your take on facts (old people and immunocompromised) leaves a lot to be desired. YOU'RE implying they got what they deserved and not me. I'm not being judgmental in the slightest, again this is YOUR interpretation and misinterpretation at that. You should go check the stats for the average ages of people dying. You don't like that facts and there's nothing I or anyone else can do to change that but, yes, it is mostly very old and/or immunocompromised dying from covid.

As for making this a race thing, get some help please. Covid deaths being in the elderly and immunocompromised suddenly turned into black lives matter? ALL LIVES MATTER. What a load of crap. Give yourself a giant pat on the back there. In 99% of cases people are overweight or unhealthy due to lifestyle choices. If you eat crap every day and don't exercise you get fat and potentially heart disease and diabetes. If you drink heavily you get cirrhosis. If you smoke a ton you get lung cancer. This is choice.

Once again, I never said they would have died anyway, it's a contributing factor obviously to get covid but being very old and/or extremely unhealthy by choice is the precursor to many of these deaths. You can't help being old, but you CAN help being massively overweight through proper diet and exercise and you can stop smoking and drinking. Unhealthy people changing their lifestyles re diet, exercise, smoking, drugs, drinking would be a lot more beneficial to them than getting jabbed 3 times a year with a new vaccine. Then there would be less covid deaths and you wouldn't have to be moaning about me supposedly being cynical and heartless which I'm not. I'm being realistic.

You may not realize that, here in the US, the rate of Covid deaths are disproportionate in the Black, Latino, Indigenous and Pacific Islander groups based on proportion of overall population. You are forgiven for not knowing that. (I don't ask that you read this, but if you're interested in some supporting date, you can find it here. It's from last March.) I think that you and Kieran lean rather heavily on the factors of age and obesity, and what I would characterize as "life-style" choices, or those who are otherwise compromised. In Ireland where you have a more homogenous admixture of population, perhaps that makes more sense. It should be considered, in many countries, that poverty and socio-economic disadvantage are also contributing factors to ill-health, in general, and Covid-19, in particular.

If you re-read your last paragraph above, to me it DOES sound judgmental and unsympathetic. Of course I know that the elderly have been dying in far larger numbers, and that various comorbities are greater risk factors, but I think you should recheck your facts on the age and relative health of more recent cases, in that both are coming down.

 

[Moxie]

Ha, ha. Be careful what you wished for. I'll put it together tomorrow.

Yikes! I was hoping for a few short sentences, such as I gave you. If you make it full of homework videos, I can't promise to watch.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Wrong. Mass vaccination during a so called pandemic is what is causing the variants. Seeing as the vaxxed can catch and transit covid it will mutate with them also. Many top scientists say herd immunity is impossible since delta so we'll see what happens if Omicron takes over.

We've been over this a ton of times, vaxxed catch and transit covid also and the vaccines don't even stop you catching it so me not being vaccinated makes zero difference to anyone but me and I'm not one bit scared of covid. My mum who is fit as a fiddle and 74 was up talking to me for 2 hours today and guess what, 2 years after covid came along I haven't killed her yet so enough with the nonsense and don't believe all the crap you see on lamestream media. It's unvaxxed who should be worried about vaxxed and not the other way round but the world is full of clueless people who can't grasp this.

I totally disagree. You have no earthly knowledge of what you are talking about. I will leave this thread to you and the others who want to continue in this useless gibberish.

 

[Moxie]

It’s a couple of times you used the word “uninformed” in quotes when replying to me, in relation to politicians, but I’m not sure I used that word. You used it first about the EU President, and my argument is that she’s not listening to people if she decides to force them to take a vaccine. Now as we know, legally she can’t do this, but the EU is a slippery institution and it isn’t beyond them to introduce penalties and restrictions to errant nations who won’t obey them.

OK, you never use such prosaic language, but you did call her "dull." If I misinterpreted that as "uniformed," my bad.

What happens over here unfortunately is that although they have access to a lot of information, they only recite a list of treatments and approaches that are not necessarily suited to everyone, and are largely driven by big pharma (vaccines) and social restrictions. So they maybe very well informed, but they’re not sharing the full extent of information that will help us combat covid on a personal level, which I’ll come to in a second because I’m going to give a little defence of the official approach before I argue against myself and this defence.

It’s understandable, if you have to lead hundreds of millions of people, that they should take this approach. How can they afford to treat everyone as an exception - which we all are - when the disease is spreading? I can forgive them for saying, “look, we don’t have time to listen to everyone, this virus is rampant!

So let’s issue the vaccines rapidly, keep your distance, follow the restrictions, we’re firefighting, FFS!”

I can accept this and sympathise with it, to a large extent. They don’t have many other practical options. Although with imaginative and bright politicians and they can still do this better. The Irish experience of the last 20 months is that they instantly reach for the blunt force instrument of severe restriction and this festers huge resentment, and resistance. They don’t think, perhaps restrict regions differently according to their population differences, for example but we have many areas of complaint over here, when we factor in incompetence and hypocrisy in our leaders, and we don’t have all day.

But never, not once, in their broadcasts do they ever mention personal responsibility for your health, to exercise more, to get out and get some vitamin d, build your immune system through better diet, supplements, exercise etc. Give yourself a better chance. They’re selling this mono culture of ideas and it’s just wrong. We don’t only have to rely on drugs and restrictions, we have an immune system that is largely beating the virus without assistance. This is statistical. Most people by far who catch covid are okay, with only mild symptoms.

This is all very well-said, and thought out. I agree that the politicians in much of the world, by following the news and anecdotal intel here, have been egregiously poor at communicating with the public. Here is where I think we need to also maybe disentangle two ideas that are being worked out on this thread. One is the actual lethality of the Covid 19 pandemic, and the usefulness of a vaccine to combat it; and the other is how far governments ought to go in enforcing mandates, such as closures and vaccine enforcement. I understand that they're rather intertwined, but I can also see them as separation ethical questions.

So this is where we come to the dying from or dying with part. It’s a tricky one, because it’s a bit like the chicken and egg. Would a 90 year old career-smoker have died on that same day if they hasn’t had Covid? Who can tell, but it seems unlikely. But it seems equally unlikely that they’d have died with covid if they were twenty years young and healthy.

This is always an emotional topic, and everyone knows for example that among the most vulnerable in our society are those in nursing homes. My own dad was in one, and it was heartbreaking to visit him, while at the same time it was the best part of my week. In Ireland, our health honcho suggested last year that it would be “heartless” to stop the residents from having visitors during the pandemic, going against the advice and wishes and fears of the nursing homes, who wanted to restrict visits for a while.

The result was inevitable, and so covid got into the homes and the largest percent of fatalities in Ireland came from the nursing homes. Now, it’s a brutal and tragic fact, but had the residents all been young and healthy the result would be different. This is just the awful truth. This is why the nursing homes wanted to restrict visitors, because they knew this. My dad was in his nursing home because he had Alzheimers and we couldn’t look after him at home. He clung on for a year in the home, and for a long time he was just lying there, barely able to draw breath, but alive. Had he caught covid, or had he overheard a car backfiring and got a fright, there would be no difference. The problem was that he was already dying.

Most people in nursing homes are old and frail and with fewer immunity weapons than the young buck on the football team and we’d be negligent and dishonest if we pretended that Covid affects everyone equally.

Covid is largely a disease which is killing people with co-morbidities and compromised immunity. Most deaths are occurring in countries with larger obesity rates. This isn’t being judgmental. In America you have that ideas that it’s “fat shaming” to say that being fat is unhealthy. But unfortunately it’s an indicator for getting a worse dose of covid.

The CDC said that “Adults with excess weight are at even greater risk during the COVID-19 pandemic.”

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/obesity-and-covid-19.html

Johns Hopkins university and WHO show that most deaths are occurring in countries with the highest obesity rates:


https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n623


It may sound heartless but this is also The Science, and I hope that since covid hit, we all tried to see how we can improve our own health to give us a better chance, because it matters.

As I said to Front, I think you're leaning too hard on obesity. And while I understand that the very old have been hit hard, I think going to care homes is not the most dispassionate model, if you're going to argue the with/of question. That one's a bit shooting fish in a barrel. I have cited this example on these forums before, and I think it's worth hearing again: a friend here had her 97-year-old mother in England, who was of sound mind and health, but she had a brief health issue, in March of 2020. Against my friend's wishes, she was taken to hospital, where she contracted Covid and died of it. Yes, she was 97, but otherwise had some good time ahead of her, and I rather resent folks who dismiss age as an inevitability in Covid.

Poverty is a factor that you don't account for, and I think that is a mistake. This from a website that you cite above:

Covid-19: Adults in poorest areas are almost four times more likely to die, inquiry finds

Working age adults in England’s poorest areas were almost four times more likely to die from covid-19 than those in the wealthiest areas, a landmark report has found.1 The report, which followed a nine month investigation by the Health Foundation, showed that pre-existing differences in health...

www.bmj.com

There's actually a lot in there worth discussing, but I'll leave it at that for now.

Unfortunately, I can’t open the link, it’s behind a paywall, but I see the data isn’t too comprehensive.

Sorry, I forgot about the paywall. It isn't full of stats, just commentary, but I do think that going on about the aged is a bit behind the curve on data.

Well, like I say, it’s the prevailing culture so it has to be questioned, especially when it’s affecting so many lives. Like I said above, I can see good reason for a one-size-fits-all approach, but it doesn’t necessarily fly in societies with so much information available (not always a good thing), and which are used to more freedom in their choices.

We’re venting here but it’s good we can. And we’re not only sharing the official line that we’re being hammered with daily on the news, but hopefully sharing equally expert opinions that we’ve sourced in good faith. I don’t always believe that governments act in good faith, or honesty, with regards to this disease.


I agree with this approach, that we use the data available and make our own choices, based on what’s good for us, and others. We’d hope that everyone does due process on this thing and arrives at a place where they’re similarly taking responsibility for themselves, even if it’s not all in the same way. I know people in my close circle who are terrified of covid, they do everything the government suggests without question, they get angry at others who ask questions - and they continue with their own old bad habits of too much alcohol, bad diet, no exercise, and cigarettes, and I shake my head. Especially smoking, given that the virus targets the lungs, but maybe among heavy smokers the damage is already done. However, I believe that psychologically we give ourselves a boost when we take responsibility for ourselves, healthwise.

I have always been in favor of taking positive action in terms of health, though it's rare that we're all perfect practitioners. We are all flawed, and I'm still in favor of protecting those who need it. Especially in that many are not completely in control of their health issues, or their socio-economic conditions and the contributing negative factors that those imply.

I didn’t know that the vaccine reduces transmission, but I haven’t read anything that contradicts this either. I was curious about it. That’s a good thing.

I'm not sure how much we can be assured about that, yet, but there does seem to be some evidence that when you have a case, including a breakthrough one, where everyone else is vaccinated, and protocols are observed, no one else gets it. I know it's anecdotal, and I'm talking about the film business. But, last year, before the vaccine, when someone got it on a show, others got it, and they had to shut down. Now, we keep testing, and no one else gets it. It IS something.

Yes, though we’re both Irish and love many of the same films, I had hoped that long ago people had realised that me and Front are not the same person

Those who have been paying attention know the best thing to come out of Cork.

 

[Kieran]

This is all very well-said, and thought out. I agree that the politicians in much of the world, by following the news and anecdotal intel here, have been egregiously poor at communicating with the public. Here is where I think we need to also maybe disentangle two ideas that are being worked out on this thread. One is the actual lethality of the Covid 19 pandemic, and the usefulness of a vaccine to combat it; and the other is how far governments ought to go in enforcing mandates, such as closures and vaccine enforcement. I understand that they're rather intertwined, but I can also see them as separation ethical questions.

Well, as pandemics go, it’s hardly the most lethal, and I haven’t given any argument that’s overly hostile to the vaccine in principle, I have some caveats which I’ve written about earlier but I definitely agree there are Ethical issues around making vaccines mandatory.

As I said to Front, I think you're leaning too hard on obesity. And while I understand that the very old have been hit hard, I think going to care homes is not the most dispassionate model, if you're going to argue the with/of question. That one's a bit shooting fish in a barrel. I have cited this example on these forums before, and I think it's worth hearing again: a friend here had her 97-year-old mother in England, who was of sound mind and health, but she had a brief health issue, in March of 2020. Against my friend's wishes, she was taken to hospital, where she contracted Covid and died of it. Yes, she was 97, but otherwise had some good time ahead of her, and I rather resent folks who dismiss age as an inevitability in Covid.

Both age and obesity are major factors in covids deaths, hospitalisation etc. That’s not me and Front making it an issue, that’s statistical, CDC and WHO stats, which I’ve quoted in this thread with links to show just how big a factor they are.

Poverty is a factor that you don't account for, and I think that is a mistake. This from a website that you cite above:

I don’t dismiss poverty as a factor, but we’re talking in this thread fairly broadly.

.


I have always been in favor of taking positive action in terms of health, though it's rare that we're all perfect practitioners. We are all flawed, and I'm still in favor of protecting those who need it. Especially in that many are not completely in control of their health issues, or their socio-economic conditions and the contributing negative factors that those imply.

I agree with you largely here, when it comes to personal responsibility. Everyone can do more, but for various we can tend not to.

I'm not sure how much we can be assured about that, yet, but there does seem to be some evidence that when you have a case, including a breakthrough one, where everyone else is vaccinated, and protocols are observed, no one else gets it. I know it's anecdotal, and I'm talking about the film business. But, last year, before the vaccine, when someone got it on a show, others got it, and they had to shut down. Now, we keep testing, and no one else gets it. It IS something.

Stop saying things I agree with. Anti-pusher won’t talk to you again.

Those who have been paying attention know the best thing to come out of Cork.

The people from Cork wish he’d come out of Cork too!

 

[Moxie]

Well, as pandemics go, it’s hardly the most lethal, and I haven’t given any argument that’s overly hostile to the vaccine in principle, I have some caveats which I’ve written about earlier but I definitely agree there are Ethical issues around making vaccines mandatory.

It's no Spanish flu, or even AIDS, but it's up there. 5 Million+ deaths is a lot, even if you want to debate some of the death certificates.

Both age and obesity are major factors in covids deaths, hospitalisation etc. That’s not me and Front making it an issue, that’s statistical, CDC and WHO stats, which I’ve quoted in this thread with links to show just how big a factor they are.

I don’t dismiss poverty as a factor, but we’re talking in this thread fairly broadly.

Age, obesity, diabetes, cancer, HIV status, Hep C, asthma, etc. There are lots of co-concurring conditions besides age and obesity, which is why I object to you two for hitting age and obesity so hard. And I don't really understand the bolded above. Sure, this thread is "broad," but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't take poverty into account.

Stop saying things I agree with. Anti-pusher won’t talk to you again.

The people from Cork wish he’d come out of Cork too!

You're terrible.

 

[Kieran]

It's no Spanish flu, or even AIDS, but it's up there. 5 Million+ deaths is a lot, even if you want to debate some of the death certificates.

5 million from 7 billion is minuscule, and we should never make light of the fact that the majority of people who catch covid will have an easy time of it.

Age, obesity, diabetes, cancer, HIV status, Hep C, asthma, etc. There are lots of co-concurring conditions besides age and obesity, which is why I object to you two for hitting age and obesity so hard. And I don't really understand the bolded above. Sure, this thread is "broad," but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't take poverty into account.

I’m not hitting age and obesity at all. There are a lot co-morbidities at play here. But look at that mortality figures in your country, and mine, and anywhere else, the older the age group, the more chance of death, unfortunately. But even here it isn’t all bad news, Covid isn’t a certain fatality for even the very old. They still have a good chance of surviving. As for the other co-morbidities, some of them are things which should inspire people to look deeply at their lifestyles and see if they can help themselves a bit more. We can’t always say that people are victims, and are unable to make changes, no matter how small. We all have our own immune system and we have to make efforts to help it fight this thing. The vaccine alone isn’t sufficient.

You're terrible.

Why try change me now?

 

[Front242]

You may not realize that, here in the US, the rate of Covid deaths are disproportionate in the Black, Latino, Indigenous and Pacific Islander groups based on proportion of overall population. You are forgiven for not knowing that. (I don't ask that you read this, but if you're interested in some supporting date, you can find it here. It's from last March.) I think that you and Kieran lean rather heavily on the factors of age and obesity, and what I would characterize as "life-style" choices, or those who are otherwise compromised. In Ireland where you have a more homogenous admixture of population, perhaps that makes more sense. It should be considered, in many countries, that poverty and socio-economic disadvantage are also contributing factors to ill-health, in general, and Covid-19, in particular.

If you re-read your last paragraph above, to me it DOES sound judgmental and unsympathetic. Of course I know that the elderly have been dying in far larger numbers, and that various comorbities are greater risk factors, but I think you should recheck your facts on the age and relative health of more recent cases, in that both are coming down.

No, I realize the disproportionate deaths in the US by race but poverty and socio-economic disadvantage doesn't mean you have to eat really badly and not exercise. There are tons of cheap and healthy foods and walking or running is free. No matter what the circumstances, these two are easily managed. There will always be exceptions and obviously some younger and healthier people are affected by covid but by and large the stats don't lie it remains mostly a virus affecting the elderly and immunocompromised.

 

[Front242]

I totally disagree. You have no earthly knowledge of what you are talking about. I will leave this thread to you and the others who want to continue in this useless gibberish.

No part of that post was useless gibberish to anyone who knows what they're talking about.