Covid vaccine - opinions?

[the AntiPusher]

I’m not Co-signer of anyone’s posts, and no, it’s not a common cold. To some people, the effect of the virus might be even less than the effect of a common cold, but for people with co-morbidities, the virus could be a terrible tipping point. Common colds aren't like this…

That's what Front is implying..these virus are no more than a common cold...read his posts..

 

[Kieran]

That's what Front is implying..these virus are no more than a common cold...read his posts..

I don't think I've seen him imply that it's no more than a common cold, you'd need to show me where, but we don't cosign each others posts, bro. We definitely have areas of agreement though, about the handling of the crisis.

 

[Front242]

That's what Front is implying..these virus are no more than a common cold...read his posts..

I didn't say that, I said the official stats are always 99.4% - 99.6% in mild condition and the symptoms of delta are mostly runny/blocked nose, sore throat, headache, fever/chills and a cough. There are others of course such as temporary loss of taste and smell but does any of that sound particularly life threatening to you unless of course you're 85 and overweight or have comorbidities? I did say though that this new Omicron/Moronic scariant if it turns out more transmissible and even less deadly could render this endemic and like a common cold if it takes over from delta and obviously we'd all be happy if this is how it pans out.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I didn't say that, I said the official stats are always 99.4% - 99.6% in mild condition and the symptoms of delta are mostly runny/blocked nose, headache, fever/chills and a cough. There are others of course such as temporary loss of taste and smell but does any of that sound particularly life threatening to you unless of course you're 85 and overweight or have comorbidities? I did say though that this new Omicron/Moronic scariant if it turns out more transmissible and even less deadly could render this endemic and like a common cold if it takes over from delta and obviously we'd all be happy if this is how it pans out.

99.4-99.6 is close enough to 100 percent to me..all the symptoms you just described were of the common cold..isn't that correct?

 

[the AntiPusher]

I don't think I've seen him imply that it's no more than a common cold, you'd need to show me where, but we don't cosign each others posts, bro. We definitely have areas of agreement though, about the handling of the crisis.

Re-read his posts including the last one where's he is saying mild symptoms " running nose, headache, chills and etc for the Delta virus . That's the common cold, isn't it

 

[Front242]

Re-read his posts including the last one where's he is saying mild symptoms " running nose, headache, chills and etc for the Delta virus . That's the common cold, isn't it

Man, have you done any research on what you took these vaccines for or just asking myself and Kieran ? The reason so many globally don't need any vaccine is 'cos the symptoms are very mild. I posted Delta variant symptoms, not common cold although they're hardly scary enough to warrant scum governments, so called "health" advisors and policians to be mandating a vaccine for though are they?! Mandating a vaccine and firing people for not taking something for this is a fucking joke when they clearly don't need it in 99+ % of cases and especially since they do fuck all to stop transmission even when vaxxed. They even say it's like a common cold here...

Most common symptoms of Delta are sore throat, cough and nasal congestion ​

Research suggests Delta may be presenting similar to a cold, with headaches, sore throats and runny noses more frequently seen symptoms

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ire...e-throat-cough-and-nasal-congestion-1.4618347

I've had it up to here with clowns on local forums freaking out over what is basically nothing and claiming they were lucky they took the vaccine or they may have ended up in hospital/ICU or died and then blaming the unvaxxed while they go out and drink themselves silly in pubs and clubs full of riddled vaxxed mingling in packed venues with no checks on entry except scan their phone app or piece of paper. Laughable. And they say we're the supposed loons for not taking a vaccine that in essence serves no purpose for the majority. The irony! I mean, seriously, how many people do you know die from those symptoms ? Those vaccines are helping a VERY SMALL proportion of people from dying 'cos most have practically ZERO chance of dying from covid.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Man, have you done any research on what you took these vaccines for or just asking myself and Kieran ? The reason so many globally don't need any vaccine is 'cos the symptoms are very mild. I posted Delta variant symptoms, not common cold although they're hardly scary enough to warrant scum governments, so called "health" advisors and policians to be mandating a vaccine for though are they?! Mandating a vaccine and firing people for not taking something for this is a fucking joke when they clearly don't need it in 99+ % of cases and especially since they do fuck all to stop transmission even when vaxxed. They even say it's like a common cold here...

Most common symptoms of Delta are sore throat, cough and nasal congestion ​

Research suggests Delta may be presenting similar to a cold, with headaches, sore throats and runny noses more frequently seen symptoms

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ire...e-throat-cough-and-nasal-congestion-1.4618347

I've had it up to here with clowns on local forums freaking out over what is basically nothing and claiming they were lucky they took the vaccine or they may have ended up in hospital/ICU or died and then blaming the unvaxxed while they go out and drink themselves silly in pubs and clubs full of riddled vaxxed mingling in packed venues with no checks on entry except scan their phone app or piece of paper. Laughable. And they say we're the supposed loons for not taking a vaccine that in essence serves no purpose for the majority. The irony! I mean, seriously, how many people do you know die from those symptoms ? Those vaccines are helping a VERY SMALL proportion of people from dying 'cos most have practically ZERO chance of dying from covid.

Come on. You know someone with my tennis IQ has done my homework. So let's stick to my question? You are implying that people are really dying from other health related issues non Covid related..this is correct. ? No ( this is a Rafa's No which means YES)..

 

[Front242]

Come on. You know someone with my tennis IQ has done my homework. So let's stick to my question? You are implying that people are really dying from other health related issues non Covid related..this is correct. ? No ( this is a Rafa's No which means YES)..

Yes, they are dying with covid not from covid. Iz the true, no ?

 

[Moxie]

It’s riding roughshod over people if you disrespect their right to decide what they want to put into their body, and force them to take a vaccine that many of them most likely won’t need. One-third of the EU population, made up of all the nations, haven’t been vaccinated. It’s proper leadership to listen and to win the argument with logic and examples, rather than by force, which is the worst way to win any argument. It’s also the least compassionate way, and it’s also only going to buy trouble down the line.

People have genuine questions about the vaccine, and some think the vaccine is okay but they have a healthy, functioning immune system that they trust. They’re entitled to decide for themselves.

I agree that vaccine mandates are extreme, and can seem draconian, to some, but to assume that others, especially those in power and with great access to information are "uninformed" is stacking the deck in your favor. And I think it's overly simple. Where we absolutely agree is in that there should be much more transparency. And it's criminal that this has been so politicized, but that horse left the barn long ago.

As for how well informed she is, I’m not so easily convinced. If she’s anything like the average politician who speaks about covid - and she seems to be - then she thinks the only solution is to restrict the population and vaccinated them. Nothing about taking personal responsibility for your life, your weight, your diet, the supplements you can take, and so much more.

This borders on the judgmental. Front has been hitting the age/overweight thing pretty hard. It's also kind of old news. You do realize that new variants have also been hitting younger, healthier populations. Could be many factors, but it is true.

Is the Delta Variant Making Younger Adults ‘Sicker, Quicker’? (Published 2021)

Many doctors on the front lines say unvaccinated patients in their 20s and 30s are becoming more severely ill, and more quickly. But comprehensive data is lacking.

www.nytimes.com

EDIT for further detail: the EU has no legislation over its member states in this regard. Each state sets its own health policy, so even in this, she’s being highly inappropriate at best, but worse case scenario suggests that the EU are going to ramp up the pressure on member states by other means, to get them to comply. This is not unusual for the EU.

Understood.

You shouldn’t feel your view has no sympathy here, I know I enjoy your posts and gain a lot from them, and I’m sure others do too. When I post about the vaccine, maybe I’m posting more negatively than positively, but that’s because it’s the prevailing culture and governments are digging themselves into a mono culture of treatment driven by the big pharma companies. So I’m obviously going to be totally opposed to this, given that I don’t take medicines unless they’re extremely necessary, preferring the natural route.

But only yesterday I did say that an obvious success for the vaccine is that if we’re catch covid when vaccinated, we’re statistically likely to have a much better time of it, than if we’re not vaccinated. This is shown by the hospital stats, which are the only ones that matter. It’s not all bad news, but until we know more about the vaccine - and that includes the people who are creating vaccines, and people like the EU President - we have no business trying to destroy peoples lives and livelihoods by forcing it on them…

I did say it wasn't you that has no interest in my POV. It's basically everyone else. Occasionally I get a nod, but mostly this is a thread for the vaccine hesitant, and those that think the governments and big Pharma are shoving something poisonous down everyone's throat/arm. I will just pick my battles.

Like you, I'm lucky enough to take no medicines, and I avoid them at all option. I trust a lot in my own healthy body, a good diet, etc. However, for example, I take a flu shot every year. Not because I'm afraid that I will get the flu, but to protect those who are more vulnerable to it, and could die from catching it: the very old, the very young, and the immune-compromised. Same with the Covid vaccine. I'm not afraid for myself, but I'm willing to protect others.

You're right to say that the vaccinated have a statistically better chance of having a lighter case, and also, (not sure if you said this, but I will,) statistically are less likely too spread it. (Something I don't think @Front242 believes.) Even in the presence of virus, it tends to fall off faster in the vaccinated, thereby limiting the spread. Vaccination will, I believe, mitigate the disease and limit it down to another strain of flu. I don't believe that leaving it to "run its course" will.

I realize that you and Front are not one person, and I will take up some of my issues with him.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Yes, they are dying with covid not from covid. Iz the true, no ?

Explain Please what exactly you are saying Front

 

[Moxie]

Yes, they are dying with covid not from covid. Iz the true, no ?

This becomes a trope for you, and others here. You're implying that Covid is a side-effect death of people who are already rather unwell, and you also imply that they deserve what they get. Or, at least that they would have died anyway. But you pay no heed to the "when."

Don't try to say you haven't been pretty judgmental about people who die of Covid: fat, old, immune-compromised. But, two things here: a) the recent intel is that younger, healthier people are also getting very sick and even dying of it, so your version is outdated. And b) I have always found your idea that only old and/or immune-compromised people are dying from it (or "next to it,") to be completely heartless and arrogant. How nice to be young and healthy. How nice to be white and middle-class. How ill-considered of so many to be Brown or Black, and lower-class, and thereby much more susceptible to obesity, diabetes, heart disease, based on historically undermining circumstances. Not to mention having to carry on in jobs that exposed them to the virus. How wrong of my mother to be in a care home during Covid, when I couldn't be there to tend better to her. How wrong of her just to be old. How wrong of so many to have had cancer in the past, or present, that made them more vulnerable. And how wrong of their families to think that they might have lived longer, but for Covid. The time we have with our loved ones is precious. For you to toss off the notion that they would have died anyway, not "from" but "with" Covid, is cynical and heartless.

 

[Front242]

This becomes a trope for you, and others here. You're implying that Covid is a side-effect death of people who are already rather unwell, and you also imply that they deserve what they get. Or, at least that they would have died anyway. But you pay no heed to the "when."

Don't try to say you haven't been pretty judgmental about people who die of Covid: fat, old, immune-compromised. But, two things here: a) the recent intel is that younger, healthier people are also getting very sick and even dying of it, so your version is outdated. And b) I have always found your idea that only old and/or immune-compromised people are dying from it (or "next to it,") to be completely heartless and arrogant. How nice to be young and healthy. How nice to be white and middle-class. How ill-considered of so many to be Brown or Black, and lower-class, and thereby much more susceptible to obesity, diabetes, heart disease, based on historically undermining circumstances. Not to mention having to carry on in jobs that exposed them to the virus. How wrong of my mother to be in a care home during Covid, when I couldn't be there to tend better to her. How wrong of her just to be old. How wrong of so many to have had cancer in the past, or present, that made them more vulnerable. And how wrong of their families to think that they might have lived longer, but for Covid. The time we have with our loved ones is precious. For you to toss off the notion that they would have died anyway, not "from" but "with" Covid, is cynical and heartless.

Your take on facts (old people and immunocompromised) leaves a lot to be desired. YOU'RE implying they got what they deserved and not me. I'm not being judgmental in the slightest, again this is YOUR interpretation and misinterpretation at that. You should go check the stats for the average ages of people dying. You don't like that facts and there's nothing I or anyone else can do to change that but, yes, it is mostly very old and/or immunocompromised dying from covid.

As for making this a race thing, get some help please. Covid deaths being in the elderly and immunocompromised suddenly turned into black lives matter? ALL LIVES MATTER. What a load of crap. Give yourself a giant pat on the back there. In 99% of cases people are overweight or unhealthy due to lifestyle choices. If you eat crap every day and don't exercise you get fat and potentially heart disease and diabetes. If you drink heavily you get cirrhosis. If you smoke a ton you get lung cancer. This is choice.

Once again, I never said they would have died anyway, it's a contributing factor obviously to get covid but being very old and/or extremely unhealthy by choice is the precursor to many of these deaths. You can't help being old, but you CAN help being massively overweight through proper diet and exercise and you can stop smoking and drinking. Unhealthy people changing their lifestyles re diet, exercise, smoking, drugs, drinking would be a lot more beneficial to them than getting jabbed 3 times a year with a new vaccine. Then there would be less covid deaths and you wouldn't have to be moaning about me supposedly being cynical and heartless which I'm not. I'm being realistic.

 

[the AntiPusher]

This becomes a trope for you, and others here. You're implying that Covid is a side-effect death of people who are already rather unwell, and you also imply that they deserve what they get. Or, at least that they would have died anyway. But you pay no heed to the "when."

Don't try to say you haven't been pretty judgmental about people who die of Covid: fat, old, immune-compromised. But, two things here: a) the recent intel is that younger, healthier people are also getting very sick and even dying of it, so your version is outdated. And b) I have always found your idea that only old and/or immune-compromised people are dying from it (or "next to it,") to be completely heartless and arrogant. How nice to be young and healthy. How nice to be white and middle-class. How ill-considered of so many to be Brown or Black, and lower-class, and thereby much more susceptible to obesity, diabetes, heart disease, based on historically undermining circumstances. Not to mention having to carry on in jobs that exposed them to the virus. How wrong of my mother to be in a care home during Covid, when I couldn't be there to tend better to her. How wrong of her just to be old. How wrong of so many to have had cancer in the past, or present, that made them more vulnerable. And how wrong of their families to think that they might have lived longer, but for Covid. The time we have with our loved ones is precious. For you to toss off the notion that they would have died anyway, not "from" but "with" Covid, is cynical and heartless.

Yes. That's exactly what I was alluding to, it's a pure cold blackheart to be so dismissive towards those who has lost their lives and love ones during this pandemic.

 

[Front242]

Yes. That's exactly what I was alluding to, it's a pure cold blackheart to be so dismissive towards those who has lost their lives and love ones during this pandemic.

So that's 2 misinterpreting facts. Well done to you both.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Your take on facts (old people and immunocompromised) leaves a lot to be desired. YOU'RE implying they got what they deserved and not me. I'm not being judgmental in the slightest, again this is YOUR interpretation and misinterpretation at that. You should go check the stats for the average ages of people dying. You don't like that facts and there's nothing I or anyone else can do to change that but, yes, it is mostly very old and/or immunocompromised dying from covid.

As for making this a race thing, get some help please. Covid deaths being in the elderly and immunocompromised suddenly turned into black lives matter?

What Moxie said was this virus really had taken a toll on those (people of color which includes Asian, Latin and other people of color) who most likely don't have the proper health care that have been impacted by COVID. Front you are the one who said Black Lives Matter.

ALL LIVES MATTER.

Well Front we know how you truly feel and your limited understanding of what Black Lives Matter truly means.

What a load of crap. Give yourself a giant pat on the back there. In 99% of cases people are overweight or unhealthy due to lifestyle choices. If you eat crap every day and don't exercise you get fat and potentially heart disease and diabetes. If you drink heavily you get cirrhosis. If you smoke a ton you get lung cancer. This is choice.

This is just having again a black heart. Front , Have you EVER considered that maybe some people have "reasons " for having vices like smoking, drinking, non and prescription drug addiction. That's doesn't make them LOSERS.

Once again, I never said they would have died anyway, it's a contributing factor obviously to get covid but being very old and/or extremely unhealthy by choice is the precursor to many of these deaths.

Again, another cold black heart. Front, Have you EVER considered that people didn't make themselves. If you know any religion, God made These individuals. No one human being EVER asked to be in this world. People have to come into the world with "the cards they have been dealt'. "

You can't help being old, but you CAN help being massively overweight through proper diet and exercise and you can stop smoking and drinking. Unhealthy people changing their lifestyles re diet, exercise, smoking, drugs, drinking would be a lot more beneficial to them than getting jabbed 3 times a year with a new vaccine.

What about if a person has a unknown defective heart valve or something degenerative with their body's immune system. Do you really think that this will prevent them from getting Covid. If this is the case, why have so many top athletes are still catching Covid.

Then there would be less covid deaths and you wouldn't have to be moaning about me supposedly being cynical and heartless which I'm not. I'm being realistic.

No you are not being realistic, you are having a black heart. One day, the eyes that you have looked down upon might do the same thing to you.

 

[Front242]

Wrong again. It's called being realistic. Do you even know why I'm telling you it's mostly old and unhealthy people dying 'cos it seems both you and Moxie have completely missed the point?! The point is that since it's by and large very old and unhealthy people dying, the vaccines are useless for the majority since they don't stop transmission and since most will not end up in hospital or die from covid and will brush it off as a mild illness. That's why and, yes, that's 100% realistic and has absolutely sfa do with me supposedly having a black heart which I do not. The massive push to vaccinate the planet is fueled by greed and not science or common sense since they aren't reducing transmission much at all and only select groups are dying. That again is called being realistic unless you want to point to stats showing millions of healthy people dying from covid and that they desperately need these vaccines or they'll die...

We were told this was to protect the vulnerable. Well they're protected so why the lies? Why the need to vaccinate the whole planet? Herd immunity is impossible for covid although India where delta originated from have largely eradicated it for now through natural immunity for the most part and treatment rather than vaccines proving the vaccinate everyone plan is the wrong approach.

 

[Kieran]

I agree that vaccine mandates are extreme, and can seem draconian, to some, but to assume that others, especially those in power and with great access to information are "uninformed" is stacking the deck in your favor. And I think it's overly simple. Where we absolutely agree is in that there should be much more transparency. And it's criminal that this has been so politicized, but that horse left the barn long ago.

It’s a couple of times you used the word “uninformed” in quotes when replying to me, in relation to politicians, but I’m not sure I used that word. You used it first about the EU President, and my argument is that she’s not listening to people if she decides to force them to take a vaccine. Now as we know, legally she can’t do this, but the EU is a slippery institution and it isn’t beyond them to introduce penalties and restrictions to errant nations who won’t obey them.

What happens over here unfortunately is that although they have access to a lot of information, they only recite a list of treatments and approaches that are not necessarily suited to everyone, and are largely driven by big pharma (vaccines) and social restrictions. So they maybe very well informed, but they’re not sharing the full extent of information that will help us combat covid on a personal level, which I’ll come to in a second because I’m going to give a little defence of the official approach before I argue against myself and this defence.

It’s understandable, if you have to lead hundreds of millions of people, that they should take this approach. How can they afford to treat everyone as an exception - which we all are - when the disease is spreading? I can forgive them for saying, “look, we don’t have time to listen to everyone, this virus is rampant!

So let’s issue the vaccines rapidly, keep your distance, follow the restrictions, we’re firefighting, FFS!”

I can accept this and sympathise with it, to a large extent. They don’t have many other practical options. Although with imaginative and bright politicians and they can still do this better. The Irish experience of the last 20 months is that they instantly reach for the blunt force instrument of severe restriction and this festers huge resentment, and resistance. They don’t think, perhaps restrict regions differently according to their population differences, for example but we have many areas of complaint over here, when we factor in incompetence and hypocrisy in our leaders, and we don’t have all day.

But never, not once, in their broadcasts do they ever mention personal responsibility for your health, to exercise more, to get out and get some vitamin d, build your immune system through better diet, supplements, exercise etc. Give yourself a better chance. They’re selling this mono culture of ideas and it’s just wrong. We don’t only have to rely on drugs and restrictions, we have an immune system that is largely beating the virus without assistance. This is statistical. Most people by far who catch covid are okay, with only mild symptoms.

This borders on the judgmental. Front has been hitting the age/overweight thing pretty hard. It's also kind of old news. You do realize that new variants have also been hitting younger, healthier populations. Could be many factors, but it is true.

So this is where we come to the dying from or dying with part. It’s a tricky one, because it’s a bit like the chicken and egg. Would a 90 year old career-smoker have died on that same day if they hasn’t had Covid? Who can tell, but it seems unlikely. But it seems equally unlikely that they’d have died with covid if they were twenty years young and healthy.

This is always an emotional topic, and everyone knows for example that among the most vulnerable in our society are those in nursing homes. My own dad was in one, and it was heartbreaking to visit him, while at the same time it was the best part of my week. In Ireland, our health honcho suggested last year that it would be “heartless” to stop the residents from having visitors during the pandemic, going against the advice and wishes and fears of the nursing homes, who wanted to restrict visits for a while.

The result was inevitable, and so covid got into the homes and the largest percent of fatalities in Ireland came from the nursing homes. Now, it’s a brutal and tragic fact, but had the residents all been young and healthy the result would be different. This is just the awful truth. This is why the nursing homes wanted to restrict visitors, because they knew this. My dad was in his nursing home because he had Alzheimers and we couldn’t look after him at home. He clung on for a year in the home, and for a long time he was just lying there, barely able to draw breath, but alive. Had he caught covid, or had he overheard a car backfiring and got a fright, there would be no difference. The problem was that he was already dying.

Most people in nursing homes are old and frail and with fewer immunity weapons than the young buck on the football team and we’d be negligent and dishonest if we pretended that Covid affects everyone equally.

Covid is largely a disease which is killing people with co-morbidities and compromised immunity. Most deaths are occurring in countries with larger obesity rates. This isn’t being judgmental. In America you have that ideas that it’s “fat shaming” to say that being fat is unhealthy. But unfortunately it’s an indicator for getting a worse dose of covid.

The CDC said that “Adults with excess weight are at even greater risk during the COVID-19 pandemic.”

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/obesity-and-covid-19.html

Johns Hopkins university and WHO show that most deaths are occurring in countries with the highest obesity rates:

Taking data from over 160 countries, the report found linear correlations between a country’s covid-19 mortality and the proportion of adults that are overweight. There is not a single example of a country with less than 40% of the population overweight that has high death rates (over 10 per 100 000), the report said. Similarly, no country with a death rate over 100 per 100 000 had less than 50% of their population overweight.

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n623


It may sound heartless but this is also The Science, and I hope that since covid hit, we all tried to see how we can improve our own health to give us a better chance, because it matters.

Is the Delta Variant Making Younger Adults ‘Sicker, Quicker’? (Published 2021)

Many doctors on the front lines say unvaccinated patients in their 20s and 30s are becoming more severely ill, and more quickly. But comprehensive data is lacking.

www.nytimes.com

Unfortunately, I can’t open the link, it’s behind a paywall, but I see the data isn’t too comprehensive.

I did say it wasn't you that has no interest in my POV. It's basically everyone else. Occasionally I get a nod, but mostly this is a thread for the vaccine hesitant, and those that think the governments and big Pharma are shoving something poisonous down everyone's throat/arm. I will just pick my battles.

Well, like I say, it’s the prevailing culture so it has to be questioned, especially when it’s affecting so many lives. Like I said above, I can see good reason for a one-size-fits-all approach, but it doesn’t necessarily fly in societies with so much information available (not always a good thing), and which are used to more freedom in their choices.

We’re venting here but it’s good we can. And we’re not only sharing the official line that we’re being hammered with daily on the news, but hopefully sharing equally expert opinions that we’ve sourced in good faith. I don’t always believe that governments act in good faith, or honesty, with regards to this disease.

Like you, I'm lucky enough to take no medicines, and I avoid them at all option. I trust a lot in my own healthy body, a good diet, etc. However, for example, I take a flu shot every year. Not because I'm afraid that I will get the flu, but to protect those who are more vulnerable to it, and could die from catching it: the very old, the very young, and the immune-compromised. Same with the Covid vaccine. I'm not afraid for myself, but I'm willing to protect others.

I agree with this approach, that we use the data available and make our own choices, based on what’s good for us, and others. We’d hope that everyone does due process on this thing and arrives at a place where they’re similarly taking responsibility for themselves, even if it’s not all in the same way. I know people in my close circle who are terrified of covid, they do everything the government suggests without question, they get angry at others who ask questions - and they continue with their own old bad habits of too much alcohol, bad diet, no exercise, and cigarettes, and I shake my head. Especially smoking, given that the virus targets the lungs, but maybe among heavy smokers the damage is already done. However, I believe that psychologically we give ourselves a boost when we take responsibility for ourselves, healthwise.

You're right to say that the vaccinated have a statistically better chance of having a lighter case, and also, (not sure if you said this, but I will,) statistically are less likely too spread it.
(Something I don't think @Front242 believes.) Even in the presence of virus, it tends to fall off faster in the vaccinated, thereby limiting the spread.

I didn’t know that the vaccine reduces transmission, but I haven’t read anything that contradicts this either. I was curious about it. That’s a good thing.

I realize that you and Front are not one person, and I will take up some of my issues with him.

Yes, though we’re both Irish and love many of the same films, I had hoped that long ago people had realised that me and Front are not the same person

But I do share a huge amount of his concerns about governments approaches to this, the reliance and insistence on big pharma, especially the growing feebleness of the vaccine over short periods, and the downplaying of the role of taking personal responsibility for our health.

 

[Front242]

The vaccines do very little to reduce transmission since delta appeared and the problem is compounded even more now given that whatever little reduction they give is already waning badly from 3 months with the Pfizer vaccine and the Janssen one being so poor they recommend a booster after just 3 months. Globally now we have people who were vaccinated towards the start of this year or summer time who now are practically unvaccinated so they're catching and transmitting covid at a far higher rate and hence why the covid pass/vaccine passports are complete bs cos no one tests anyone going indoors in most countries and many are riddled. Our clown government then and equally clown NPHET health advisors extend the use of covid passes to gyms which is hilarious given that most people were vaccinated months ago and are transmitting it till the cows come home. But stay home you unvaccinated lepers! Hilarious clowns in power here.

I knew they'd close night clubs pretty soon after they reopened and, again, utterly hilarious given that unvaccinated people aren't allowed in so this is a very tacit acknowledgement that it's largely the vaxxed are spreading covid since the unvaxxed aren't allowed into pubs, clubs, restaurants and now gyms (?!) but they haven't got the balls to admit that...

Not allowing access to gyms. Good one, let the fat get fatter and let the fit people become unfit thereby making things worse. Very clever guys in NPHET. Not a single brain cell between them.

 

[Kieran]

It’s difficult to quote your post, AP, because you posted it without noticing that you’d gotten stuck in the quotations. But it’s not helpful or true to describe Front as having a black heart, I think don’t any of us here are acting in bad faith, and using that provocatively isn’t a substitute for cogent argument. For instance, while we’d all agree ‘that maybe some people have "reasons " for having vices like smoking, drinking, non and prescription drug addiction. That's doesn't make them LOSERS,’ we should all also agree that many people fall into vice gleefully and are therefore the cause of their own misery.

But the main point isn’t whether or not they’re at fault or whether they’re victims of how God made them - the main point is that The Science too has located Co-morbidities with regards to the dangers of covid, so people are armed with choices in how to combat this - if we’re lucky.

There’s no point in being fatalistic and absolving ourselves of personal responsibility for our health by saying, “ahh well, it’s not my fault I don’t exercise, I eat shit and drink a chunk every night in front of the telly, somebody else has to keep me safe “

Of course, there are people who have no choice in the physical ailments they have and I bet you any amount of money that Front knows this, but these are the issues we face with covid, and the fewer health problems we already have, the stronger our immunity, the better armed we are to face this.

I think it’s better if we remove the personal and emotional from the discussion as best we can, difficult as that can be, and deal only with what we know, and what we think we know..

 

[Kieran]

The vaccines do very little to reduce transmission since delta appeared and the problem is compounded even more now given that whatever little reduction they give is already waning badly from 3 months with the Pfizer vaccine and the Janssen one being so poor they recommend a booster after just 3 months. Globally now we have people who were vaccinated towards the start of this year or summer time who now are practically unvaccinated so they're catching and transmitting covid at a far higher rate and hence why the covid pass/vaccine passports are complete bs cos no one tests anyone going indoors in most countries and many are riddled. Our clown government then and equally clown NPHET health advisors extend the use of covid passes to gyms which is hilarious given that most people were vaccinated months ago and are transmitting it till the cows come home. But stay home you unvaccinated lepers! Hilarious clowns in power here.

I knew they'd close night clubs pretty soon after they reopened and, again, utterly hilarious given that unvaccinated people aren't allowed in so this is a very tacit acknowledgement that it's largely the vaxxed are spreading covid since the unvaxxed aren't allowed into pubs, clubs, restaurants and now gyms (?!) but they haven't got the balls to admit that...

Not allowing access to gyms. Good one, let the fat get fatter and let the fit people become unfit thereby making things worse. Very clever guys in NPHET. Not a single brain cell between them.

I haven’t noticed over here that any government officials or NPHET have addressed the waning power of the vaccines. They haven’t mentioned that they promised one thing, but were unable to deliver through no fault of their own. I think it would be appreciated if they were more humble in this regard and reminded us that they’re not infallible and they may not get everything right. Most of us would understand this. But they continue to push every restriction as if they know what they’re doing, and never acknowledge that they did this with things that were subsequently proven to be wrong, and sometimes fatally wrong.

Even now, forcing masks onto infants contradicts their own instructions with regards to masks. “Not suitable for under 13s”.

By the way, I was under the impression that NPHET was disbanding, but who turns down a cushy number? I’ve always said that we shouldn’t be getting threatening messages from career civil servants who aren’t elected to make choices for us. They should advise the government and the government can outline their policy and reasons. But having divisive figures like the same people who were responsible for the cervical cancer catastrophe, and its attempted cover up, putting the fear in us daily on the mainstream media is truly galling…