Covid vaccine - opinions?

[Kieran]

Yup, gonna be massive amounts of people doing this via Belfast! Sorry yeah btw, I got mixed up on the test on the way out 'cos my wife is going to London for just 1 day on Saturday and she's vaxxed and is getting an antigen test before she leaves cos it's good for 48 hours and that saves her paying for more expensive PCR test from the UK and the hassle of having to get it done over there. So I mixed it up thinking you needed it leaving but her case is an exception since she's getting it done in a pharmacy here before she leaves cos it's only a 1 day trip.

Normally they let the many riddled vaxxed out there leave the country riddled to go as they please and infect the whole plane and the country they visit!

That’s a funny one but it’s true - you can do your antigen test in Ireland, then fly abroad, arrive home within 48 hours and present the result of the test you did before you left Ireland - is there anything more ridiculous and funny than that?


It goes to show how stupid our government are, how power crazy, that they’ll do things like this just to show their power. Idiots. I hope your missus enjoys London, one of my favourite places, tempted to go there after Christmas. Been looking at flights from Belfast, to see where they go to. The benefits they promised the vaccinated, eh? We have to sneak across the border…

 

[Front242]

That’s a funny one but it’s true - you can do your antigen test in Ireland, then fly abroad, arrive home within 48 hours and present the result of the test you did before you left Ireland - is there anything more ridiculous and funny than that?


It goes to show how stupid our government are, how power crazy, that they’ll do things like this just to show their power. Idiots. I hope your missus enjoys London, one of my favourite places, tempted to go there after Christmas. Been looking at flights from Belfast, to see where they go to. The benefits they promised the vaccinated, eh? We have to sneak across the border…

Right now the UK is one of the best places to go to. Able to just walk into any pub, restaurant or club no questions asked just the way it should be. If you're scared of covid then stay at home and hide under the bed while the rest of us get on with our lives and if you get a runny nose, blocked nose, fever, chills, headache or a cough or other such oh so scary things then so be it. I'm absolutely trembling with fear at the thought of catching any of those. NOT.

 

[Kieran]

Right now the UK is one of the best places to go to. Able to just walk into any pub, restaurant or club no questions asked just the way it should be. If you're scared of covid then stay at home and hide under the bed while the rest of us get on with our lives and if you get a runny nose, blocked nose, fever, chills, headache or a cough or other such oh so scary things then so be it. I'm absolutely trembling with fear at the thought of catching any of those. NOT.

Exactly. I have an Italian friend from Puglia but her and her husband decamped to Sweden for the last eight months and them stay there until sometime next year. Things are going well there, and people have their freedom, with few restrictions…

 

[Front242]

They said they won't here due to high vaccination levels but if they bring in mandatory vaccination and tell you can't work from home because we require you to go to the office 3 days a week then I'm selling the house and telling my wife I'm gone. Thinking it over in my head now cos I can see them doing this by March/April cos this EU president is an absolute pos and is gunning for this everywhere and there is no sense to any of it. The vaccines are not any use to healthy people, don't stop transmission and have no long term health studies and ppl getting boosters the rest of their lives will end up with their immune systems turned to sludge and end up with auto immune disease or worse. I have zero idea where I'd go or what I'd do but I won't stay here if they try this here. My health is more important than giving in to these evil pos.

 

[Moxie]

That's fair enough but the reality is also the majority willingly took something at the drop of a hat 'cos they were told to without doing much else other than trust crooked people and yet it's the very people who know better than to trust them are the ones being shamed globally.

Now all the reports such as the whistleblower and FDA debacles just back up what those who didn't take the vaccines knew all along.

The reality is also that the pro covid vaccine people call those against covid vaccines far, far worse so sheep is nothing by comparison.

The bolded above is FULL of loaded words and disdain for those who don't share your opinion. It's not a "reality," so much as your reality. You don't know what information people were getting their hands on, and what risks they were weighing, especially those who were in regular contact with folks with high risk factors, for example. You're still basically calling everyone who doesn't believe what you believe "saps."

I think he’s referring to those who haven’t done their research, those who just blindly trust “the science” which is presented to them by official government figures and who blindly do what they’re told and then attack others who won’t do the same.

I tend to agree with him on this, because I’ve seen it over here a lot, people screeching about “anti-vaxxers” killing granny, and generally using loaded terms to try make others feel guilty because they haven’t chosen to toe the line.

You're making broad assumptions same as Front about people not doing their research before "toeing the line."

I’m beginning to notice that with covid, that within the bigger scheme of things, there are two small but loud camps which are identical to each other, almost in the way the typically opposing tribes in politics actually are the same creature. They behave the same, albeit under different flags. And it’s this, that when covid came and everything changed, some people looked for an authority to tell them it’ll be okay. Some of these people looked to the government, and it’s health tsars, and they dutifully recite the official mantras as their reason for doing what they’re doing: “we’re helping others, to keep everyone safe, and The Science says this and so the effect will be this and it’s the people who aren’t doing what they’re told are causing all the trouble.”

The opposite tribe have gone a different direction, and believe nothing the government and the health tsars say, but this tribe take scepticism to an extreme, they see bad will everywhere, and most importantly, some even buy into the most bizarre conspiracies and find their sheltering authority there.

What makes these two small groups the same is that neither have done due diligence for themselves, they’re accepting what they’re told, or read, without question. They don’t seek out the opposing argument to their theory, to see if what they believe makes sense. So there are the same sheep-like unquestioning sort of people on both sides.

This I do agree with, that there are types on both sides that are following their tribe, not their own intelligence and information.

What’s good in this thread is that everyone is pulling up stats and querying everything they’re told, some finding good in government, others finding governments to be their usual unreliable selfs. I would tend towards violent scepticism of our governments, because I don’t see good leaders anywhere on the world stage, but I do see a lot of unelected career bureaucrats suddenly loving their moment in the limelight. I tend to put our ridiculous, farcical position in Ireland down to a fatal lack of talent, imagination, and integrity. Bad combo if you’re trying to lead, it causes bad faith among the people who you rely on to follow your orders. But I see governments repeating this everywhere across the western world.

The EU president yesterday complained that 150 million people in the EU aren’t vaccinated, and that we should consider mandatory vaccinations for them. But has she not wondered why they’re not vaccinated? Surely she can’t be so dull, and unaware that in a democracy we ask questions, that she’s forgotten to ask people why they’re not vaccinated? Does she really believe we want to live in a world where people are tyrannically forced to take a jab that their conscience swears blind is bad for them? 150 million people is a lot of people!

But she can be that dull, unfortunately, and she is. “People disobey me? Force them now!” We never thought we’d live in this world, but it’s coming. At the same time, it’s a difficult time to govern and get this right - we need better leaders, but we’re stuck with what we have..,

What surprises me is this arguing about what the politicians are saying. Of course, it's important what they say, and how they politicize it, or don't. And of course, they formulate policy. But I have been listening to lots of scientists and health care professionals. Granted, I've had some very good access over the past year+ for professional reasons, but there are also outlets for their information available to everyone, too. And I don't mean anyone that can be called self-aggrandizing. Just your more day-to-day that have public health as their interest. And those who know what it's like on the front-lines of this pandemic. And a lot of them see the difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated patients in this past several months. It's discouraging to them be re-running 2020 because of so many who refuse the vaccine. Yes, I appreciate this thread for the sharing of information, and the debating of the politics of it, sort of. Though I don't feel there's a lot of room for my opinion here.

Above, you call the EU president "dull" for her position on vaccinations. Or you ask if she really can be. But surely she is very well-informed. Likely more than the rest of us. You just don't agree with her conclusions. Which is your right, but it's rather hubristic to think she's under-informed, because she's drawn a different conclusion than you have.

 

[Kieran]

The bolded above is FULL of loaded words and disdain for those who don't share your opinion. It's not a "reality," so much as your reality. You don't know what information people were getting their hands on, and what risks they were weighing, especially those who were in regular contact with folks with high risk factors, for example. You're still basically calling everyone who doesn't believe what you believe "saps."

You're making broad assumptions same as Front about people not doing their research before "toeing the line."

This I do agree with, that there are types on both sides that are following their tribe, not their own intelligence and information.

What surprises me is this arguing about what the politicians are saying. Of course, it's important what they say, and how they politicize it, or don't. And of course, they formulate policy. But I have been listening to lots of scientists and health care professionals. Granted, I've had some very good access over the past year+ for professional reasons, but there are also outlets for their information available to everyone, too. And I don't mean anyone that can be called self-aggrandizing. Just your more day-to-day that have public health as their interest. And those who know what it's like on the front-lines of this pandemic. And a lot of them see the difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated patients in this past several months. It's discouraging to them be re-running 2020 because of so many who refuse the vaccine. Yes, I appreciate this thread for the sharing of information, and the debating of the politics of it, sort of. Though I don't feel there's a lot of room for my opinion here.

Above, you call the EU president "dull" for her position on vaccinations. Or you ask if she really can be. But surely she is very well-informed. Likely more than the rest of us. You just don't agree with her conclusions. Which is your right, but it's rather hubristic to think she's under-informed, because she's drawn a different conclusion than you have.

You think she’s well-informed enough of why 150 million people aren’t vaccinated in the EU? So well informed that she believes it’s okay to ride roughshod over their rights and force them to take the vaccine? I’d love to know why you think that, genuinely. When you live in the EU you quickly realise how detached the technocrats are from the people who have to endure them.

i don’t see why you don’t feel there’s room for your opinion here. We’re all basing our opinions on what we’ve experienced, learned and listened to. Everyone can have a different angle on this, and I’m certainly not hostile to anyone who disagrees with me. The politicising of the virus/vaccine is the worst and yet most inevitable thing that was going to happen. And once that happened, it was always going to be about politics first, and foremost. Remember last year in America, Biden saying he won’t take the vaccine, and of course he whistled a different tune once he won the election. Trump saying to ban flights from China and he was accused of racism, and now we see fights having to be banned from SA to some countries, and it’s sound policy. It’s not only in America that bad politics led to bad decisions, and led to mistrust. I have enough experience of Irish politics to know that they don’t lead, they follow, and that’s not what the country needs more. We don’t need unimaginative politicians making the same mistakes as they made before…

And by the way, when I said about some people not doing their research and just toeing the line, i was referring to the type of person who just parrots the party line and asks no questions. They exist everywhere. I wasn’t referring to posters here on this thread, which I thought was clear..

EDIT: sleepy here and brief but hopefully not sounding abrupt - going to sleep now!

 

[Moxie]

You think she’s well-informed enough of why 150 million people aren’t vaccinated in the EU? So well informed that she believes it’s okay to ride roughshod over their rights and force them to take the vaccine? I’d love to know why you think that, genuinely. When you live in the EU you quickly realise how detached the technocrats are from the people who have to endure them.

i don’t see why you don’t feel there’s room for your opinion here. We’re all basing our opinions on what we’ve experienced, learned and listened to. Everyone can have a different angle on this, and I’m certainly not hostile to anyone who disagrees with me. The politicising of the virus/vaccine is the worst and yet most inevitable thing that was going to happen. And once that happened, it was always going to be about politics first, and foremost. Remember last year in America, Biden saying he won’t take the vaccine, and of course he whistled a different tune once he won the election. Trump saying to ban flights from China and he was accused of racism, and now we see fights having to be banned from SA to some countries, and it’s sound policy. It’s not only in America that bad politics led to bad decisions, and led to mistrust. I have enough experience of Irish politics to know that they don’t lead, they follow, and that’s not what the country needs more. We don’t need unimaginative politicians making the same mistakes as they made before…

And by the way, when I said about some people not doing their research and just toeing the line, i was referring to the type of person who just parrots the party line and asks no questions. They exist everywhere. I wasn’t referring to posters here on this thread, which I thought was clear..

EDIT: sleepy here and brief but hopefully not sounding abrupt - going to sleep now!

I do suspect that the president of the EU is well informed, and I don't think calling her approach "riding rough-shod" over people is dispassionate.

And no, I don't feel there is much sympathy for my position here, therefore not much room for it. I make my pleas, but they fall on deaf ears. Not you, but others. Basically, they get ridden "rough-shod" over. Not so much response, so I give up, most of the time.

 

[the AntiPusher]

They said they won't here due to high vaccination levels but if they bring in mandatory vaccination and tell you can't work from home because we require you to go to the office 3 days a week then I'm selling the house and telling my wife I'm gone. Thinking it over in my head now cos I can see them doing this by March/April cos this EU president is an absolute pos and is gunning for this everywhere and there is no sense to any of it. The vaccines are not any use to healthy people, don't stop transmission and have no long term health studies and ppl getting boosters the rest of their lives will end up with their immune systems turned to sludge and end up with auto immune disease or worse. I have zero idea where I'd go or what I'd do but I won't stay here if they try this here. My health is more important than giving in to these evil pos.

Question .. Let's say that for example 70 percent (World wide) of the remaining non Covid vaccine vaccination support your decision to not to take the vaccine. When do you expect this pandemic to end or is just going to be the new" Norm?

 

[Front242]

Question .. Let's say that for example 70 percent (World wide) of the remaining non Covid vaccine vaccination support your decision to not to take the vaccine. When do you expect this pandemic to end or is just going to be the new" Norm?

The vaccines don't stop transmission and nor are healthy people dying from this. Based on this, then why in the name of hell should any government leader even think about making people take these? They are pushing hard for Agenda 2030 and money is the root of all evil and is what is controlling them all.

I won't go to hospital or die from this and if I got vaccinated I'd be able to catch it and pass it on just the same so where is the logic there? What benefit is there in taking it? ZERO. And every few months for life?! No thanks. When will this end? They should have only ever made the vulnerable and elderly take the vaccines as was originally the idea but this was all planned. Countries where most of the very elderly, vulnerable, obese/seriously unhealthy have died will see this leveling off as their death rates drop. They'll claim this is the amazing vaccines working when in reality these old and sick/unhealthy people just died and it will continue like this when there are the next batch of elderly and unhealthy getting closer to meeting the reaper.

 

[the AntiPusher]

The vaccines don't stop transmission and nor are healthy people dying from this. Based on this, then why in the name of hell should any government leader even think about making people take these? They are pushing hard for Agenda 2030 and money is the root of all evil and is what is controlling them all.

I won't go to hospital or die from this and if I got vaccinated I'd be able to catch it and pass it on just the same so where is the logic there? What benefit is there in taking it? ZERO. And every few months for life?! No thanks. When will this end? They should have only ever made the vulnerable and elderly take the vaccines as was originally the idea but this was all planned. Countries where most of the very elderly, vulnerable, obese/seriously unhealthy have died will see this leveling off as their death rates drop. They'll claim this is the amazing vaccines working when in reality these old and sick/unhealthy people just died and it will continue like this when there are the next batch of elderly and unhealthy getting closer to meeting the reaper.

No.no..This isnt about you not about if you get sick or die, you have established long beforehand that’s you are COVID-19 proof.Just address my question? If 70 percent who are unvaccinated remains unvaccinated when do you expect the pandemic to end ?

 

[Kieran]

I do suspect that the president of the EU is well informed, and I don't think calling her approach "riding rough-shod" over people is dispassionate.

And no, I don't feel there is much sympathy for my position here, therefore not much room for it. I make my pleas, but they fall on deaf ears. Not you, but others. Basically, they get ridden "rough-shod" over. Not so much response, so I give up, most of the time.

It’s riding roughshod over people if you disrespect their right to decide what they want to put into their body, and force them to take a vaccine that many of them most likely won’t need. One-third of the EU population, made up of all the nations, haven’t been vaccinated. It’s proper leadership to listen and to win the argument with logic and examples, rather than by force, which is the worst way to win any argument. It’s also the least compassionate way, and it’s also only going to buy trouble down the line.

People have genuine questions about the vaccine, and some think the vaccine is okay but they have a healthy, functioning immune system that they trust. They’re entitled to decide for themselves.

As for how well informed she is, I’m not so easily convinced. If she’s anything like the average politician who speaks about covid - and she seems to be - then she thinks the only solution is to restrict the population and vaccinated them. Nothing about taking personal responsibility for your life, your weight, your diet, the supplements you can take, and so much more.

EDIT for further detail: the EU has no legislation over its member states in this regard. Each state sets its own health policy, so even in this, she’s being highly inappropriate at best, but worse case scenario suggests that the EU are going to ramp up the pressure on member states by other means, to get them to comply. This is not unusual for the EU.

You shouldn’t feel your view has no sympathy here, I know I enjoy your posts and gain a lot from them, and I’m sure others do too. When I post about the vaccine, maybe I’m posting more negatively than positively, but that’s because it’s the prevailing culture and governments are digging themselves into a mono culture of treatment driven by the big pharma companies. So I’m obviously going to be totally opposed to this, given that I don’t take medicines unless they’re extremely necessary, preferring the natural route.

But only yesterday I did say that an obvious success for the vaccine is that if we’re catch covid when vaccinated, we’re statistically likely to have a much better time of it, than if we’re not vaccinated. This is shown by the hospital stats, which are the only ones that matter. It’s not all bad news, but until we know more about the vaccine - and that includes the people who are creating vaccines, and people like the EU President - we have no business trying to destroy peoples lives and livelihoods by forcing it on them…

 

[Kieran]

This is an interesting - and brief - article discussing the wisdom and necessity of booster shots:

Hang on a minute... – HART

On 15 November Boris Johnson gave a press conference urging everyone to get their booster shots. This has caused much confusion in the minds of the thus far ‘fully vaccinated’.

www.hartgroup.org

 

[Front242]

No.no..This isnt about you not about if you get sick or die, you have established long beforehand that’s you are COVID-19 proof.Just address my question? If 70 percent who are unvaccinated remains unvaccinated when do you expect the pandemic to end ?

Who says those 70% are old, unhealthy or in any way likely to die? Chances are they aren't so what difference will it make ? ZERO is the likely answer. If they catch it as a mild cold as most do (once again, see the global official stats which literally never deviate from between 99.4-99.6% of the whole planet in mild condition) then they end up with natural immunity 13x superior to 2 shots of Pfizer's muck as per studies from Israel. No one can predict when this will end. They generally say pandemics last 3-5 years but this isn't a pandemic.

If the Omicron/Moronic scariant ends up more transmissible and in all likelihood less deadly than delta which was also less deadly than alpha despite muppets saying otherwise then it may become the dominant strain in the near future and make this endemic. There should be zero need for any mandates for vaccines if it mutates to the extent it's absolutely nothing more than a cold...

 

[Kieran]

Yeah, I think the natural course for viruses of this sort is that they mutate themselves into oblivion over the course of a few seasons…

 

[Kieran]

Question .. Let's say that for example 70 percent (World wide) of the remaining non Covid vaccine vaccination support your decision to not to take the vaccine. When do you expect this pandemic to end or is just going to be the new" Norm?

I think this is the crux question regarding the vaccine, can it be the circuit breaker if enough people take it, and if so, for how long, given that boosters are now required. How often will they be required?

Do you think improved covid treatments might replace the vaccines in future, as a better option?

 

[Front242]

I think this is the crux question regarding the vaccine, can it be the circuit breaker if enough people take it, and if so, for how long, given that boosters are now required. How often will they be required?

Do you think improved covid treatments might replace the vaccines in future, as a better option?

This should be the way forward really. No vaccine mandates and, since the vaccines don't stop transmission, forcing them on people makes no sense and is just wrong both scientifically and morally. If people who are older or more vulnerable develop bad symptoms and get hospitalized then treat them or treat them before they reach hospital. The end.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Who says those 70% are old, unhealthy or in any way likely to die? Chances are they aren't so what difference will it make ? ZERO is the likely answer. If they catch it as a mild cold as most do (once again, see the global official stats which literally never deviate from between 99.4-99.6% of the whole planet in mild condition) then they end up with natural immunity 13x superior to 2 shots of Pfizer's muck as per studies from Israel. No one can predict when this will end. They generally say pandemics last 3-5 years but this isn't a pandemic.

If the Omicron/Moronic scariant ends up more transmissible and in all likelihood less deadly than delta which was also less deadly than alpha despite muppets saying otherwise then it may become the dominant strain in the near future and make this endemic. There should be zero need for any mandates for vaccines if it mutates to the extent it's absolutely nothing more than a cold...

Front ..(Kieran too since you are cosigner of his posts) Are you saying that the new Omnicron or some strains of Covid 19 virus to a healthy antibodies person is just a common cold ?

 

[the AntiPusher]

This should be the way forward really. No vaccine mandates and, since the vaccines don't stop transmission, forcing them on people makes no sense and is just wrong both scientifically and morally. If people who are older or more vulnerable develop bad symptoms and get hospitalized then treat them or treat them before they reach hospital. The end.

So you are saying in essence, just let the virus run it's course, no need for social distancing or masks ( mandates or not) ?

 

[Kieran]

Front ..(Kieran too since you are cosigner of his posts) Are you saying that the new Omnicron or some strains of Covid 19 virus to a healthy antibodies person is just a common cold ?

I’m not Co-signer of anyone’s posts, and no, it’s not a common cold. To some people, the effect of the virus might be even less than the effect of a common cold, but for people with co-morbidities, the virus could be a terrible tipping point. Common colds aren't like this…

 

[Front242]

So you are saying in essence, just let the virus run it's course, no need for social distancing or masks ( mandates or not) ?

I have no issue with social distancing and masks. Not convinced masks work at all but you've no choice but to wear them in shops anyway here and many other countries, at airports, public transport etc. But yes, I think they should have vaccinated those most at risk and no one else and let everyone who wasn't going to end up in hospital or die just get natural immunity. It's a massive global overreaction although that overreaction is fueled by greed with payoffs from Big Pharma.

They should also test everyone going indoors and on planes both going out and flying home in every country since vaxxed spread covid same as unvaxxed and therefore the two tier society banning of unvaxxed makes no sense and is bs discrimination with no scientific reason behind it. They simply want more unvaxxed to get vaxxed so they get paid even more by Big Pharma.