Cincinnati Masters 2019, Ohio, US, ATP Masters 1000

[MikeOne]

1. IDK WTF you people are talking about! Nadal "CAN" be a very offensive player, but for the most part he isn't and doesn't play like that! Why are players outside the top 50 keeping him on court for so long, making him go the distance all too often? Ridiculous! What era of tennis have you guys been watching? If so offensive, why the need to pull out his bag of "gamesmanship" tricks; stalling, challenging every close call, & mysterious MTO's? Come on guys; we've all been around here too long to try and have temporary amnesia just to make a point! :whistle: :cuckoo:

   
   wrong. All you have to to do is observe. I dare you to find a match where Nadal simply just rallies when he's not being attacked. Hewitt, Murray were way more defensive than Nadal. Medvedev, who just won Cincy, is the purest form of counterpunching i have seen since Hewitt. Notice how during neutral's rallies today, Medvedev wasn't even trying to hit winners or even place it in the corners, he was deliberately just putting ball back in play, oftentimes back in the middle of the court. Next time you watch Nadal. observe how Nadal almost never does this, Rafa, when given anything he can attack, ATTACKS, ALL THE TIME. Don't take it from me, just observe yourself.
   
   People tend to be confused when talking about whether a player is offensive or not. They think it's about hitting flat, hitting aces and hitting winners. In theory, a purely defensive player can hit aces, hit flat and hit winners. Hewitt, for instance, would sometimes hit many winners but by re-directing opponents pace, basically using counterpunching.
   
   Nadal is the worst counterpuncher in the top 10, he is a terrible counterpuncher. This is why pace to his fh side works, he is unable to re-direct the opponent's pace like Novak, Murray, Medvedev can. The people who say he is defensive is because they are thoroughly confused. Opponents red line vs Rafa so they are constantly attacking him, so Rafa is forced to play defense. This is not what a defensive player is about, a defensive player deliberately just put ball back in play during neutral rallies, again, look at Medvedev. Nadal attacks almost every ball he can attack, he goes for winners, goes for the lines and plays ultra aggressive. Nadal has great defense but he only uses it when forced to do so, when the rally is neutral, Nadal is one of the most aggressive baseliners you will ever see. He doesn't hit flat, he doesn't hit many aces but he is nonetheless very offensive minded, he even comes in to net often.
   
   The reason Medvedev had trouble with nadal was because he didn't attack Nadal, you cannot counterpunch Nadal, he will tear you up. Just look at how Nadal had Medvedev from side to side, non-stop and crushed him... it was all offense. Since Medvedev's defensive game didn't pressure Nadal or force him to play defense, Nadal was able to dictate play by constantly attacking Medvedev. Medvedev will need to play him differently next time, he will have to attack Nadal a lot more, to stop Nadal from dictating so much. One of the reasons players attack Nadal is because if they don't, Nadal takes control and brutalizes them. Very few players are as aggressive as Nadal during a neutral rally.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

1. 
   
   wrong. All you have to to do is observe. I dare you to find a match where Nadal simply just rallies when he's not being attacked. Hewitt, Murray were way more defensive than Nadal. Medvedev, who just won Cincy, is the purest form of counterpunching i have seen since Hewitt. Notice how during neutral's rallies today, Medvedev wasn't even trying to hit winners or even place it in the corners, he was deliberately just putting ball back in play, oftentimes back in the middle of the court. Next time you watch Nadal. observe how Nadal almost never does this, Rafa, when given anything he can attack, ATTACKS, ALL THE TIME. Don't take it from me, just observe yourself.
   
   People tend to be confused when talking about whether a player is offensive or not. They think it's about hitting flat, hitting aces and hitting winners. In theory, a purely defensive player can hit aces, hit flat and hit winners. Hewitt, for instance, would sometimes hit many winners but by re-directing opponents pace, basically using counterpunching.
   
   Nadal is the worst counterpuncher in the top 10, he is a terrible counterpuncher. This is why pace to his fh side works, he is unable to re-direct the opponent's pace like Novak, Murray, Medvedev can. The people who say he is defensive is because they are thoroughly confused. Opponents red line vs Rafa so they are constantly attacking him, so Rafa is forced to play defense. This is not what a defensive player is about, a defensive player deliberately just put ball back in play during neutral rallies, again, look at Medvedev. Nadal attacks almost every ball he can attack, he goes for winners, goes for the lines and plays ultra aggressive. Nadal has great defense but he only uses it when forced to do so, when the rally is neutral, Nadal is one of the most aggressive baseliners you will ever see. He doesn't hit flat, he doesn't hit many aces but he is nonetheless very offensive minded, he even comes in to net often.
   
   The reason Medvedev had trouble with nadal was because he didn't attack Nadal, you cannot counterpunch Nadal, he will tear you up. Just look at how Nadal had Medvedev from side to side, non-stop and crushed him... it was all offense. Since Medvedev's defensive game didn't pressure Nadal or force him to play defense, Nadal was able to dictate play by constantly attacking Medvedev. Medvedev will need to play him differently next time, he will have to attack Nadal a lot more, to stop Nadal from dictating so much. One of the reasons players attack Nadal is because if they don't, Nadal takes control and brutalizes them. Very few players are as aggressive as Nadal during a neutral rally.

And he's beautiful too. The complete package!

 

[herios]

Congrats to Danny on winning Cincy. We definitely needed some fresh blood.

Recent first time Masters winners include the next genners Sasha, Khachanov, Thiem and Medvedev and the lost genners JMDP and Isner.

He became the 13th non-big-four player to win a Masters - others not named above are Tsonga, Berdych, Ferrer, Robredo, Cilic, Grigor and Sock.

It appears that Cincy is becoming a good place for first time winners - Cilic in 2016, Grigor in 2017 and now Med in 2019.

Bercy still holds the record for this. As many five different players - Berdych, Tsonga, Ferrer, Sock and Khachanov - won their first Masters title there. But, Cincy is coming very close.

Now, I hope one of the newbies win USO.

A few omissions in your review:
You forgot to mention the very last non big 4 master winner Fognini.
Bercy was also won by Soderling his lone master.
On another note, Delpo and Isner are not lost gen. players, they are Nadovic generation.

 

[mrzz]

Just to give credit to Goffin, he did -- or is doing -- something that is not that straight forward. After being as high as #7, had a few misfortunes including a ball hitting his eye, fell back to 33, and now is clawing back, being #15 in the live rankings (#11 in the race). Probably he will be a constant feature at the top 10 in the next few years.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Just to give credit to Goffin, he did -- or is doing -- something that is not that straight forward. After being as high as #7, had a few misfortunes including a ball hitting his eye, fell back to 33, and now is clawing back, being #15 in the live rankings (#11 in the race). Probably he will be a constant feature at the top 10 in the next few years.

Exactly. Same for Nadal. He has been so unlucky with injuries throughout his career and should have been sitting on 30 slams and 400 weeks at no.1 by now. Nice to see them both playing some great tennis right now...

 

[monfed]

fakervic getting fried by a nobody is always hilarious

I think faker should retire from tennis and teach his younger brother Marky Markovic to play tennis.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

fakervic getting fried by a nobody is always hilarious

I think faker should retire from tennis and teach his younger brother Marky Markovic to play tennis.

Medvedev is not a nobody...

Spoiler

However Rublev is...

 

[don_fabio]

Just to give credit to Goffin, he did -- or is doing -- something that is not that straight forward. After being as high as #7, had a few misfortunes including a ball hitting his eye, fell back to 33, and now is clawing back, being #15 in the live rankings (#11 in the race). Probably he will be a constant feature at the top 10 in the next few years.

I am really happy for David, he's been fighting Goliaths for years already and he hasn't given up. As you said he really clawed his way back and looks like he is doing something really good with Johansson too. I won't be surprised if some of his best results come in the next few years if he avoids injuries. He always had a game, it's just a self belief sometimes that prevents players like him to take it up a notch.

 

[don_fabio]

You know what's going to happen; with Daniil's current success, he's bound to be upset in the 1st or 2nd round of the USO! Others like FAA might just WD like he did in Europe over the summer! It seems as if only the Big 3 can win week in and week out, but not suffer the after-affects of that success; sans Nadal on HC I guess! He did WD from both Semi's when down in AO and USO last season! :whistle:

I understand your concerns, but it's hard for me to see Medvedev falling quick in US Open. He seems so confident now and is putting balls where he wants almost with his eyes closed. Anything less than QF should be a disaster for him. The rest depends on the draw, but wherever he is drawn he should have a chance.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Kudos to Medvedev. No one will want him in their quarter at the Open !
I do see more of an attacking mentality in him then some others though, it is just very selective. I look at the break points he converted against Nole and I see that the guy is looking for his chances to attack but he is very patient. Nightmare for a lot of players.

 

[Front242]

Medvedev is not a nobody...

Spoiler

However Rublev is...

You're an idiot. Rublev played great to his credit.

 

[Moxie]

You're an idiot. Rublev played great to his credit.

Come on...I thought that was actually funny. It was Darth who was slagging Rublev. (Called him a "garbage opponent.") As we know, by way of trashing Roger for losing.

 

[Front242]

Come on...I thought that was actually funny. It was Darth who was slagging Rublev. (Called him a "garbage opponent.") As we know, by way of trashing Roger for losing.

He may have been in the past but I watched the highlights of that and, to his credit, Rublev played very well. Hard to get back on level terms after falling behind on a fast court.

 

[Moxie]

He may have been in the past but I watched the highlights of that and, to his credit, Rublev played very well. Hard to get back on level terms after falling behind on a fast court.

I get that...I just thought the joke was funny, with the little "spoiler." I don't think anyone really didn't give Rublev the credit. Darth was just being Darth.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Kudos to Medvedev. No one will want him in their quarter at the Open !
I do see more of an attacking mentality in him then some others though, it is just very selective. I look at the break points he converted against Nole and I see that the guy is looking for his chances to attack but he is very patient. Nightmare for a lot of players.

I don’t think Rafa will fear him. I watched Medvedev up close on Saturday’s evening match vs Novak. DM likes the ball low to his swing zone which is very low to be a tall guy. Novak was on his game and tried numerous drops shots but DM road Novak’s pace to stay in rhythm. Novak balls were somewhat flat which feed into DM’s rhythm. I didn’t see the final between Rafa and DM but I would gather Rafa kept the ball high to DM’s fh to produce the UFEs.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Federer fans being upset that Rublev was called a nobody while one of them called Medvedev a nobody and the rest of them ignored it...

 

[Moxie]

I don’t think Rafa will fear him. I watched Medvedev up close on Saturday’s evening match vs Novak. DM likes the ball low to his swing zone which is very low to be a tall guy. Novak was on his game and tried numerous drops shots but DM road Novak’s pace to stay in rhythm. Novak balls were somewhat flat which feed into DM’s rhythm. I didn’t see the final between Rafa and DM but I would gather Rafa kept the ball high to DM’s fh to produce the UFEs.

Interesting scouting report on the match-ups. Still, I think Murat's not wrong that, with DM now at #5, and having the hot hand over the summer, none of the 4 guys above him would esp. welcome the sight of him in their quarter, though Rafa would have less reason to worry than Novak, for example.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

I don’t think Rafa will fear him. I watched Medvedev up close on Saturday’s evening match vs Novak. DM likes the ball low to his swing zone which is very low to be a tall guy. Novak was on his game and tried numerous drops shots but DM road Novak’s pace to stay in rhythm. Novak balls were somewhat flat which feed into DM’s rhythm. I didn’t see the final between Rafa and DM but I would gather Rafa kept the ball high to DM’s fh to produce the UFEs.

You may be right. Maybe that is one of those match ups that just does not work out for DM, but I am not so sure if pulling the trigger on that idea after one match is the right way to go. DM seems to be a cerebral player . He may have some ideas next time those two play. May or may not work but the Montreal score line is not enough sample size for me about the future of that match up. It may well turn out to be but I would rather wait and see another couple of matches between them.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

A few omissions in your review:
You forgot to mention the very last non big 4 master winner Fognini.
Bercy was also won by Soderling his lone master.
On another note, Delpo and Isner are not lost gen. players, they are Nadovic generation.

Actually, I forgot Jack Sock also. But, managed to fix it before anyone found it.

Forgetting Fog is unforgivable. At least, Soderling's Bercy win came long ago.

 

[Moxie]

You may be right. Maybe that is one of those match ups that just does not work out for DM, but I am not so sure if pulling the trigger on that idea after one match is the right way to go. DM seems to be a cerebral player . He may have some ideas next time those two play. May or may not work but the Montreal score line is not enough sample size for me about the future of that match up. It may well turn out to be but I would rather wait and see another couple of matches between them.

I thought A-P made an interesting point about where DM's strike zone is, and the difference between him playing Rafa, v. playing Novak. That said, I don't think that Rafa is going to take him lightly the next time they play. I expect Medvedev to do better. (He could hardly do worse.) Facing Rafa for the first time ever in what is also your first time MS final is a very bad formula. It's tempting to think that, had the situations been reversed, and DM played Djokovic in the Montreal final and Nadal in the Cincy SF, he might likely have lost to Djokovic, and at least have done better v. Nadal. Some of it is match-up and some of it is circumstances and growth. However, the score lines were miles apart, so there is probably something in AP's assessment.