Carlos Bernardes Withdrawn for Nadal Matches

Moxie

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GameSetAndMath said:
Moxie629 said:
I've done a little reading, what there is to find, and it basically comes to the Telegraph declaring it to be so, but citing no source. Not even background, unnamed ones. It also bears pointing out that the Telegraph headline is damning to Nadal: "Nadal Makes a Mockery of Rule Book," implying that Rafa had something to do with Bernardes being withdrawn as a potential chair ump for his matches, which we don't even know to be true. So I would caution for a little closer attention to facts and sources before passing a lot of judgement.

The article does say that the ATP, which doesn't control majors, says that, “a number of factors are taken into consideration in the [umpire] selection process, including badge qualifications, nationality, as well as any previous history or incidents”. The article also cites some precedents for the last part. I would think it possible, if it is true, that the ITF may choose not to pressure Nadal with an umpire that he has had a recent run-in with, especially at a tournament as important as Roland Garros.

Players can get frustrated in matches, and sometimes take it out on the chair. That's certainly not novel.
For the record, and @Carol35, I think Carlos Bernardes is an excellent umpire. One of the best, and most genial.

So, you think Telegraph is open for a libel suit form Rafa. :puzzled

What I'm asking is if anyone sees an actual citation for the basis of this story. Who put out some press release that Bernardes was out, in terms of officiating Nadal matches? No one. They imply that Nadal had a hand in it, in the headline, but didn't back it up in the body. When was the last time you saw any article describing how the ATP/ITF picks their umpires, or gives us much real insight into them at all? They make a sensational headline, a statement as if it were fact about an umpire, and yet their story has more holes than Belgian lace, if you're looking for facts and citations. It's more of a blog post than an act of journalism, and should be treated accordingly here, i.e., not debated as fact, but, at the outside, treated as rumor.
 

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Moxie629 said:
GameSetAndMath said:
Moxie629 said:
I've done a little reading, what there is to find, and it basically comes to the Telegraph declaring it to be so, but citing no source. Not even background, unnamed ones. It also bears pointing out that the Telegraph headline is damning to Nadal: "Nadal Makes a Mockery of Rule Book," implying that Rafa had something to do with Bernardes being withdrawn as a potential chair ump for his matches, which we don't even know to be true. So I would caution for a little closer attention to facts and sources before passing a lot of judgement.

The article does say that the ATP, which doesn't control majors, says that, “a number of factors are taken into consideration in the [umpire] selection process, including badge qualifications, nationality, as well as any previous history or incidents”. The article also cites some precedents for the last part. I would think it possible, if it is true, that the ITF may choose not to pressure Nadal with an umpire that he has had a recent run-in with, especially at a tournament as important as Roland Garros.

Players can get frustrated in matches, and sometimes take it out on the chair. That's certainly not novel.
For the record, and @Carol35, I think Carlos Bernardes is an excellent umpire. One of the best, and most genial.

So, you think Telegraph is open for a libel suit form Rafa. :puzzled

What I'm asking is if anyone sees an actual citation for the basis of this story. Who put out some press release that Bernardes was out, in terms of officiating Nadal matches? No one. They imply that Nadal had a hand in it, in the headline, but didn't back it up in the body. When was the last time you saw any article describing how the ATP/ITF picks their umpires, or gives us much real insight into them at all? They make a sensational headline, a statement as if it were fact about an umpire, and yet their story has more holes than Belgian lace, if you're looking for facts and citations. It's more of a blog post than an act of journalism.

Four pages of this crap and we don't even know if the original article is legit?
 

Moxie

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I. Haychew said:
Four pages of this crap and we don't even know if the original article is legit?

That would be my contention. You read the article yourself, and tell me if there is any indication of where any of it came from. Internet search makes it look like sea foam. I will blame Kirijax a bit for posting an article without analyzing it at all, but everyone else just bit, too. There well may be some truth in it, but there is no back-up that I can see, and so folks should not be taking big stands based on it. It can only be argued in the abstract, at best.
 

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DarthFed said:
God forbid the chair ump does his job and calls Rafa for taking forever and a day. Most chair umps do give warnings for smashing racquets and loud cussing. Not sure how that's related. The chair umps shouldn't have to cater to princess Nadal or any other player.

Do they allow a player to smash rackets and cuss for four sets and then call it?
 

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Moxie629 said:
I've done a little reading, what there is to find, and it basically comes to the Telegraph declaring it to be so, but citing no source. Not even background, unnamed ones. It also bears pointing out that the Telegraph headline is damning to Nadal: "Nadal Makes a Mockery of Rule Book," implying that Rafa had something to do with Bernardes being withdrawn as a potential chair ump for his matches, which we don't even know to be true. So I would caution for a little closer attention to facts and sources before passing a lot of judgement.

The article does say that the ATP, which doesn't control majors, says that, “a number of factors are taken into consideration in the [umpire] selection process, including badge qualifications, nationality, as well as any previous history or incidents”. The article also cites some precedents for the last part. I would think it possible, if it is true, that the ITF may choose not to pressure Nadal with an umpire that he has had a recent run-in with, especially at a tournament as important as Roland Garros.

Players can get frustrated in matches, and sometimes take it out on the chair. That's certainly not novel.
For the record, and @Carol35, I think Carlos Bernardes is an excellent umpire. One of the best, and most genial.

I said it in my first post, there's a lot of supposition goin' on. Then, because it's Rafa, you have the usual teaming up to damn him.

The article has nothing to do with Rafa, and 90% of posts since then have everything to do with Rafa, and nothing to do with the article....
 

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I must agree with Moxie's point that the original article is written with the clear intention to suggest that somehow Nadal is orchestrating something from behind the scenes against Bernardes. Maybe the only thing he did was to come out openly and say the he did not want him in his matches anymore, which is understandable.

The only thing that indicates me that this is not a "rumour" is the phrase "The Telegraph can reveal", somewhere inside the article, which indicate that they may have some actual source from some actual information. But, as Moxie said, they don't show anything.

I remember Nadal and Bernardes discussing exactly because of this in a match two or three years ago, in spanish if I am not mistaken. I do not remember the exact words, but Nadal's point was exactly the same, that he felt Bernardes was pressuring him more than the others. (and if I had to guess this time was in the first set). This is not a new issue.

Anyway I think Bernardes is right, and as others remembered he warns other players too. Since the last rift between the two, I am almost sure I saw Nadal being warned by other umpire (again I am not sure). Maybe Bernarde's actions shown other umpires that it could, and should, be done.

In a nutshell, this post with a lot of uncertain things from memory has one point: I do agree that Nadal breaks this rule a lot, and should be stoped from doing it (I even once did some statistical analysis of how many times per match he breaks the rule, based on his average time and some other minor informations), even if I think that it has happened "naturally" through the years. Umpires gave him space and it became an habit. He is to blame, maybe this helped him in a few key points here and there, but I won't demonize him for it. And Bernardes is right to try to stop it, he is probably trying to do it in the best possible way that he can.
 

Front242

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B1tch please!

Nadal-Bernardes.jpg


138826-large.jpg
 

Carol

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It seems a little weird that Telegraph is only source saying something about Bernardes withdraw
But again, if that's true it means that ITF is allowing it for a good reason
 

Front242

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Good reason for you and Nadal maybe. It's not a good reason for the sport that at least one umpire has the balls to enforce the rules and then this happens. The rest are cowards.
 

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Front242 said:
B1tch please!

Nadal-Bernardes.jpg


138826-large.jpg

Yep, that day Bernardes make a big mistake, he did screw up big time :cover
 

Front242

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Keep telling yourself that and you may even believe it.
 

Carol

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Front242 said:
Good reason for you and Nadal maybe. It's not a good reason for the sport that at least one umpire has the balls to enforce the rules and then this happens. The rest are cowards.

A good reason for the sport is that the umpire has to have balls to enforce the rules for everyone and not just for only one
 

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Carol35 said:
Front242 said:
Good reason for you and Nadal maybe. It's not a good reason for the sport that at least one umpire has the balls to enforce the rules and then this happens. The rest are cowards.

A good reason for the sport is that the umpire has to have balls to enforce the rules for everyone and not just for only one

Did you ever consider that maybe Nadal takes longer than everyone else so they don't have to? Isner and Del Potro are slow as hell too and Djokovic used to bounce the ball too much but has become way faster. Even Nadal has become faster but he still is the worst offender and that's why they enforce it on him. Others don't go over the time limit. Federer got warnings in Rome for hitting the ball out of the stadium in anger.
 

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Front242 said:
Keep telling yourself that and you may even believe it.

Instead to put those pictures and to add fuel to the fire like you usually do when there is something about Nadal, try to find the vid and see what really happened during that point, even the commentators talked about it
 

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Carol35 said:
Front242 said:
Keep telling yourself that and you may even believe it.

Instead to put those pictures and to add fuel to the fire like you usually do when there is something about Nadal, try to find the vid and see what really happened during that point, even the commentators talked about it

I watched the match. He took way too long as he has so often done on key points that have helped him win matches by p1$$1ng his opponent off. He deserves it. If he was faster it wouldn't happen so the ball is in his court.
 

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Front242 said:
Carol35 said:
Front242 said:
Keep telling yourself that and you may even believe it.

Instead to put those pictures and to add fuel to the fire like you usually do when there is something about Nadal, try to find the vid and see what really happened during that point, even the commentators talked about it

I watched the match. He took way too long as he has so often done on key points that have helped him win matches by p1$$1ng his opponent off. He deserves it. If he was faster it wouldn't happen so the ball is in his court.

I have not any idea why I argue with you, anyway you see whatever you want to see, never mind...
 

Front242

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I'm not arguing, nor is it a case of seeing what I want to see. There's a set time limit and if you exceed it you lose a first serve, etc. Others don't take so long besides mainly those I mentioned already so they don't get penalized. That's all there is to it. You're taking offense to Nadal being penalized for something they are right to penalize him for and luckily for him and his fans practically no other umpires have the balls to do so.
 

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Front242 said:
I'm not arguing, nor is it a case of seeing what I want to see. There's a set time limit and if you exceed it you lose a first serve, etc. Others don't take so long besides mainly those I mentioned already so they don't get penalized. That's all there is to it. You're taking offense to Nadal being penalized for something they are right to penalize him for and luckily for him and his fans practically no other umpires have the balls to do so.

That day the argument had nothing to do with the "time", try to watch it again and you'll see why
 

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Dmitry Tursunov was told he's taking too long. So they don't only go after Nadal and this is a different umpire. Nadal though as everyone knows is the worst offender.

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLQjNo8cqEA[/video]
 

Kieran

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See, this is my problem with posters here using nicknamed, no matter how clumsily. If you scramble the letters of "Carlos Bernardes", including all his middle names, you get "GameSetAndMath..." :snicker