Carlos Bernardes Withdrawn for Nadal Matches

[Kieran]

Except when Bernardes holds him to it. Then the ump get's sh*t-can kicked to the curb. :snicker

The problem isn't that he pulls him up on it, it's when he does. That sends a wrong signal to players. He should enforce it within the first three service games of the match, not deep in a fourth set, which we've seen...

GameSetandMath responded to that earlier.

"I agree that this situation (4-4 30-40) happens. But, for a good reason though.

1. If they really start enforcing from the beginning in a strict manner, Rafa would lose about
20 points/first serves. Just be careful what you wish for.

2. Even though Rafa might take, say 5 seconds extra on a normal point, he tends to take
25 seconds extra at 4-4 30-40. Even fairly liberal umpires are thus forced to take action
at that time."

To which I responded.

To which you responded, then I responded to you, and now you're quoting his response and I should quote my response to him. :laydownlaughing

Rafa can speed up. I dunno if this is still an issue with Novak, remember how long he'd take before he'd serve, but these men aren't dummies. If the umps enforced the rules from the start, there wouldn't be an issue. From the players perspective, the issue isn't the rule, it's inconsistency in how and when they enforce it.

And as I've said many times, they should enforce it...

 

[nehmeth]

And as I've said many times, they should enforce it...

You mean they should enforce it uniformly throughout the match rather than at a key point in a match.

Nadal shouldn't blame the umpire for his losing. It was his poor response to the umpire rightly applying the rules that led to the loss. He didn't like the timing of it, took umbrage, lost focus and lost the match. Then he went on to make sure the umpire never works his matches again.

The ATP remains at the beck and call of their elite players and it has been thus from the earliest days. And while what Rafa did is less than admirable, the real culprit is the ATP that enables the behavior.

 

[Kieran]

And as I've said many times, they should enforce it...

You mean they should enforce it uniformly throughout the match rather than at a key point in a match.

Nadal shouldn't blame the umpire for his losing. It was his poor response to the umpire rightly applying the rules that led to the loss. He didn't like the timing of it, took umbrage, lost focus and lost the match. Then he went on to make sure the umpire never works his matches again.

The ATP remains at the beck and call of their elite players and it has been thus from the earliest days. And while what Rafa did is less than admirable, the real culprit is the ATP that enables the behavior.

No, the real culprit is the ATP which don't tell umpires, "hey, you been letting him do that for so long, and now you pull him up on it? Did he not break the same rule three hours ago, and go unpunished? Why'd you act now?"

The rules are already in place. Why an umpire should ignore them, and therefore let a player continue to break them, is down to the umpire. The player is entitled to expect consistency in this. The ATP should make the umpires enforce the rules - and not just when it suits the umpire...

 

[Riotbeard]

And as I've said many times, they should enforce it...

You mean they should enforce it uniformly throughout the match rather than at a key point in a match.

Nadal shouldn't blame the umpire for his losing. It was his poor response to the umpire rightly applying the rules that led to the loss. He didn't like the timing of it, took umbrage, lost focus and lost the match. Then he went on to make sure the umpire never works his matches again.

The ATP remains at the beck and call of their elite players and it has been thus from the earliest days. And while what Rafa did is less than admirable, the real culprit is the ATP that enables the behavior.

No, the real culprit is the ATP which don't tell umpires, "hey, you been letting him do that for so long, and now you pull him up on it? Did he not break the same rule three hours ago, and go unpunished? Why'd you act now?"

The rules are already in place. Why an umpire should ignore them, and therefore let a player continue to break them, is down to the umpire. The player is entitled to expect consistency in this. The ATP should make the umpires enforce the rules - and not just when it suits the umpire...

To be fair, Rafa shouldn't take too much time, and he is at his worst on big points. I agree it should be enforced from point one, but most umps don't even enforce it on the big points. The ATP should be applauding bernadas as the only ump who occasionally calls this crap on the big players.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

And as I've said many times, they should enforce it...

You mean they should enforce it uniformly throughout the match rather than at a key point in a match.

Nadal shouldn't blame the umpire for his losing. It was his poor response to the umpire rightly applying the rules that led to the loss. He didn't like the timing of it, took umbrage, lost focus and lost the match. Then he went on to make sure the umpire never works his matches again.

The ATP remains at the beck and call of their elite players and it has been thus from the earliest days. And while what Rafa did is less than admirable, the real culprit is the ATP that enables the behavior.

No, the real culprit is the ATP which don't tell umpires, "hey, you been letting him do that for so long, and now you pull him up on it? Did he not break the same rule three hours ago, and go unpunished? Why'd you act now?"

The rules are already in place. Why an umpire should ignore them, and therefore let a player continue to break them, is down to the umpire. The player is entitled to expect consistency in this. The ATP should make the umpires enforce the rules - and not just when it suits the umpire...

This is no argument.

1. If you get pulled up for driving 80 mph in a 65 mph zone, you cannot
tell the cop that "Hey, I drove 80 on the same road yesterday and nobody pulled me up".

2. Also, you cannot say, you pull me up only when I am going for my own wedding or an
important meeting at the office; you never pull me up when I am driving leisurely in a
summer vacation trip. After all, you are not going to speed when you are taking a leisurely
trip.

 

[Kieran]

You mean they should enforce it uniformly throughout the match rather than at a key point in a match.

Nadal shouldn't blame the umpire for his losing. It was his poor response to the umpire rightly applying the rules that led to the loss. He didn't like the timing of it, took umbrage, lost focus and lost the match. Then he went on to make sure the umpire never works his matches again.

The ATP remains at the beck and call of their elite players and it has been thus from the earliest days. And while what Rafa did is less than admirable, the real culprit is the ATP that enables the behavior.

No, the real culprit is the ATP which don't tell umpires, "hey, you been letting him do that for so long, and now you pull him up on it? Did he not break the same rule three hours ago, and go unpunished? Why'd you act now?"

The rules are already in place. Why an umpire should ignore them, and therefore let a player continue to break them, is down to the umpire. The player is entitled to expect consistency in this. The ATP should make the umpires enforce the rules - and not just when it suits the umpire...

This is no argument.

1. If you get pulled up for driving 80 mph in a 65 mph zone, you cannot
tell the cop that "Hey, I drove 80 on the same road yesterday and nobody pulled me up".

2. Also, you cannot say, you pull me up only when I am going for my own wedding or an
important meeting at the office; you never pull me up when I am driving leisurely in a
summer vacation trip. After all, you are not going to speed when you are taking a leisurely
trip.

Thankfully, there's none of them driving a speeding car.

The argument is that the umps should be consistent, not that they shouldn't enforce the rules. Using your analogy, it would be quite right for me to argue with a cop and ask him why he didn't enforce the law earlier. Is he acting in a capricious way, uninterested in the law, but just out to make a name for himself.

The umpires aren't there to be a part of the story. They're there to officiate. And that means from the start. Don't give players mixed signals when they're scrapping like dogs out there, and then expect them to be nice about it when you suddenly decide to make an impact...

 

[DarthFed]

I think Riotbeard has it right. When Nadal does get called for time violations it's usually on big points and everyone knows he takes even longer when he is facing BP's. So while he breaks the time limit on darn near every serve, it is the bigger points that are really egregious.

 

[I.Haychew]

I wonder how many warnings Bernardes gives before he finally tells the player that he's gonna pull the trigger next time.

 

[Fiero425]

I wonder how many warnings Bernardes gives before he finally tells the player that he's gonna pull the trigger next time.

Why bother? In all facets of life, rules, laws, and punishments are rarely meted out equitably! Going back to Wimbledon allowing McEnroe to berate that umpire without getting tossed proved some can get away with murder while others are punished harshly for the least little offense! :cover uzzled :nono :blush:

 

[the AntiPusher]

Much to do about nothing.. nobody will pay to watch him umpire a match or ever should. yes Rafa is slow to get into his service motion but this guy is just a distraction.

 

[atttomole]

The idea of withdrawing an umpire from a particular player is silly. It sets a bad precedent. Does it mean that the other players can also ask for the exclusion of certain umpires from their matches? And Nadal is well known for time wasting, and he is being rewarded for it.

 

[Fiero425]

The idea of withdrawing an umpire from a particular player is silly. It sets a bad precedent. Does it mean that the other players can also ask for the exclusion of certain umpires from their matches? And Nadal is well known for time wasting, and he is being rewarded for it.

Rafa's the main reason there is a time clock rule being enforced! That 6 hour marathon in Australia back in 2012 proved they needed to address the issue! I've never blamed Nole for taking his time, but I think it's in retaliation for Rafa abusing the clock for so many years! He's stolen many a match and championship; esp. at the FO against Federer in a few of those finals! It's one of the reasons Nadal's never been a fave; even as a kid! His whole act is so offensive, it's hard to describe! :cover :speechless:

 

[August]

The ATP should stop pleasing their stars all possible ways.

But they won't, they want the stars to succeed as it's better for their business.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Fair, but Rafa's argument is crap overall. Dude you know you're slow, and you're lucky you only got docked a 1st serve. I can't imagine Rafa only went over the time limit twice.

Of course, and they should enforce it earlier in the first set, rather than maybe deep in the fourth set. I find it ridiculous that they don't...

I agree that this situation (4-4 30-40) happens. But, for a good reason though.

1. If they really start enforcing from the beginning in a strict manner, Rafa would lose about
20 points/first serves. Just be careful what you wish for.

2. Even though Rafa might take, say 5 seconds extra on a normal point, he tends to take
25 seconds extra at 4-4 30-40. Even fairly liberal umpires are thus forced to take action
at that time.

I'd like to think Nadal is a fast learner, and that, upon losing the 5th point, he'll speed it up, instead of losing 15 more. Just a thought.

 

[brokenshoelace]

You mean they should enforce it uniformly throughout the match rather than at a key point in a match.

Nadal shouldn't blame the umpire for his losing. It was his poor response to the umpire rightly applying the rules that led to the loss. He didn't like the timing of it, took umbrage, lost focus and lost the match. Then he went on to make sure the umpire never works his matches again.

The ATP remains at the beck and call of their elite players and it has been thus from the earliest days. And while what Rafa did is less than admirable, the real culprit is the ATP that enables the behavior.

No, the real culprit is the ATP which don't tell umpires, "hey, you been letting him do that for so long, and now you pull him up on it? Did he not break the same rule three hours ago, and go unpunished? Why'd you act now?"

The rules are already in place. Why an umpire should ignore them, and therefore let a player continue to break them, is down to the umpire. The player is entitled to expect consistency in this. The ATP should make the umpires enforce the rules - and not just when it suits the umpire...

This is no argument.

1. If you get pulled up for driving 80 mph in a 65 mph zone, you cannot
tell the cop that "Hey, I drove 80 on the same road yesterday and nobody pulled me up".

2. Also, you cannot say, you pull me up only when I am going for my own wedding or an
important meeting at the office; you never pull me up when I am driving leisurely in a
summer vacation trip. After all, you are not going to speed when you are taking a leisurely
trip.

This is actually false. Legally speaking, you are perfectly within your right to question why a law that hasn't been applied to sanction a repeated behavior is all of a sudden being applied.

 

[Billie]

I wonder how many warnings Bernardes gives before he finally tells the player that he's gonna pull the trigger next time.

Great point. Umps usually give little warnings during changeovers and it should be a clue to players to speed up after that. However if they keep going over the time limit, then they should call them on it. Nole was once upset with Bernardes about giving him a time violation and he was wrong. Maybe sometimes players don't realize that they go over the limit so I am not against a bit of leniency but when it is flat out disrespect of the rule and it keeps happening in a match, and after the said player was reminded about it without much success, then all umps should be strict about applying it to all evenly. If the crowds get involved, the players should not be penalized for that, maybe break points, some pressure moments, other than that...time limit should be respected.

 

[Fiero425]

I wonder how many warnings Bernardes gives before he finally tells the player that he's gonna pull the trigger next time.

Great point. Umps usually give little warnings during changeovers and it should be a clue to players to speed up after that. However if they keep going over the time limit, then they should call them on it. Nole was once upset with Bernardes about giving him a time violation and he was wrong. Maybe sometimes players don't realize that they go over the limit so I am not against a bit of leniency but when it is flat out disrespect of the rule and it keeps happening in a match, and after the said player was reminded about it without much success, then all umps should be strict about applying it to all evenly. If the crowds get involved, the players should not be penalized for that, maybe break points, some pressure moments, other than that...time limit should be respected.

One time Bernardes literally gave a warning or time violation in the middle of Nole's service motion! I'd be PO'd too! :snicker :lolz: :laydownlaughing :angel:

 

[Billie]

I wonder how many warnings Bernardes gives before he finally tells the player that he's gonna pull the trigger next time.

Great point. Umps usually give little warnings during changeovers and it should be a clue to players to speed up after that. However if they keep going over the time limit, then they should call them on it. Nole was once upset with Bernardes about giving him a time violation and he was wrong. Maybe sometimes players don't realize that they go over the limit so I am not against a bit of leniency but when it is flat out disrespect of the rule and it keeps happening in a match, and after the said player was reminded about it without much success, then all umps should be strict about applying it to all evenly. If the crowds get involved, the players should not be penalized for that, maybe break points, some pressure moments, other than that...time limit should be respected.

One time Bernardes literally gave a warning or time violation in the middle of Nole's service motion! I'd be PO'd too! :snicker :lolz: :laydownlaughing :angel:

It's ok to be upset for a moment, nobody likes to be called on it, BUT, if you are told repeatedly then you are just looking for trouble. Nole has done a great job on speeding up, yet sometimes he does take his time. Carlos just couldn't wait for the 10th ball bounce.:lolz:

 

[Front242]

^ 10th bounce? He did 29 before lol!

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I72qi_tAwL4[/video]

 

[Fiero425]

^ 10th bounce? He did 29 before lol!

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I72qi_tAwL4[/video]

Well that was match point and Nole was trying to close out Murray 6-0! :clap :snicker :laydownlaughing :lolz: