He is going to have to go. I don't see any other way. He already complains that is too hot in Greece to go there often to sort that mess out. What a politician.
Brexit
- Thread starter britbox
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He is going to have to go. I don't see any other way. He already complains that is too hot in Greece to go there often to sort that mess out. What a politician.
Moxie
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OK, then tell me what would be good and fruitful about the EU breaking up. You are forgetting that they became one of the world's strongest economic powers when they joined forces.
They are actually modern day facts Moxie of where the UK is in the modern world. Name one of those facts which is outdated... they are all up to date. If I had started talking about the Battle of Agincourt or Waterloo, then you'd be right.
I would always vote for self determination... under every circumstance.
EdbergsGhost
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But he is at the top of the bureaucracy that it so autocratic and detached from the countries they govern. That is the problem. He's just the face on it.
EdbergsGhost
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I am not going to go there. It will become a circular argument with both of us seeing it from a completely different angle. Let's agree that we see things differently and leave it at that. I'm not going to discuss it.
Moxie
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What have they done well? I lived in Europe when all countries were their own and had impact on their own economy. I am not naïve to think that EU was made to bring Europe together for the reasons you listed. More like it was created to mold and have a say so in so many countries by a select few. The way they've dealt with Greece alone is enough to make me shake my head at the concept.
Greece can never recover under the conditions set by the EU which are basically to protect German banks.
You don't seem to have any idea of what a mess the EU is in Moxie. Italy, Spain and Portugal are also walking a very fine line....even France could be in major trouble.
You don't seem to have any idea of what a mess the EU is in Moxie. Italy, Spain and Portugal are also walking a very fine line....even France could be in major trouble.
Moxie
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No, that's a cop-out. We haven't been so at odds that you can't make a statement of strong belief. If you have one. I'm not such a poor debater that there is nothing on option but circular argument. If you have a strong case, you should make it, and not shirk away.
Maybe if Greeks gave up their islands, their problems would be solved a bit easier.
Moxie
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EdbergsGhost
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Not shrinking at all, but a nice try at baiting me. I just don't care to discuss it with you. I've read your go rounds with others and it's not worth my time or energies.
Moxie
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Don't tell me I don't get it, bb. That's condescending. The difference of opinion is philosophical about whether the EU experiment is worth it, or not. We all agree it hasn't been handled well. It doesn't mean it's not worth making a large trading bloc.
EdbergsGhost
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Thought this was a very good analysis on events leading up to this vote.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/how-did-uk-end-up-voting-leave-european-union
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/how-did-uk-end-up-voting-leave-european-union
Trading Blocks are fine Moxie... the UK voted for that in the 70s... they ended up with something far bigger... and something that is evolving into a political European Superstate. If you are just talking about trading blocks then most would probably have just stayed in... that wasn't on offer.
EdbergsGhost
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Countries should have all been allowed to keep their currencies. As it stands now, Greece will never get out of the hole its in and Portugal is on that edge. Spain is not far behind.
But countries can trade for themselves with whomever they want. Or at least they should be able to. How do you think all the members can feel equal in this union when all these countries have different levels of economy, standards, culture? Yet they want them all to have the same standards and follow whatever very few determine is best for all of them? It's impossible. Maybe the concept is a bit idealistic and appealing for some but it is far from it for me. Especially when economy is not all that is part of EU, politics is even a bigger issue for them.
Because they can't keep up with European Union demands. And they are restricted to who they can trade and make deals, so it is no wonder that a lot of countries are barely holding their heads up above water.
DarthFed
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It's worried me most of my life. I can barely sleep tonight
. But most people can always be expected to be selfish and put themselves first. In this case they put their country first. This is going to be an awful thing for many European countries currently on our version of welfare but it figures to be great for the UK over the long haul. And you're seriously asking how the UK will survive without being in the EU?? Come on, don't be absurd.