Brexit

[Moxie]

It's worried me most of my life. I can barely sleep tonight .

But most people can always be expected to be selfish and put themselves first. In this case they put their country first. This is going to be an awful thing for many European countries currently on our version of welfare but it figures to be great for the UK over the long haul. And you're seriously asking how the UK will survive without being in the EU?? Come on, don't be absurd.

I didn't ask "how the UK could survive" without the EU. Careful about the reading in, my friend. It's a question of the economically most beneficial. In this particular case I was quoting Paul Krugman. If "leave" has won, then I hope he's wrong.

 

[britbox]

I didn't ask "how the UK could survive" without the EU. Careful about the reading in, my friend. It's a question of the economically most beneficial. In this particular case I was quoting Paul Krugman. If "leave" has won, then I hope he's wrong.

Leave has won. All votes in and official. Britain will do fine. Initially it will be a rocky road particularly in the financial sector. Other than that, there are lot of opportunities to aim for.

 

[Federberg]

On a personal level I made a lot of money out of this, but somehow I feel like I've had a spectacular one night stand, and my wife has walked in and caught me in the aftermath. Doesn't feel worth it at all... sigh

 

[britbox]

On a personal level I made a lot of money out of this, but somehow I feel like I've had a spectacular one night stand, and my wife has walked in and caught me in the aftermath. Doesn't feel worth it at all... sigh

Astonishing result Federberg... Fortunately it was daytime here and I followed the whole thing from start to finish. Stunned really... but happy

When I saw the counts for Newcastle and Sunderland... it was "wait a minute... this might not be a done deal"... and then Swansea was game on. Then REMAIN overtook LEAVE again with some big Scotland and London results... but then the rest of the England and Welsh votes came flooding in like a tidal wave... Incredible events.

Cameron has announced he is standing down as PM - to be effective as of October time... I think the Tories will regroup but it needs to be behind the right man. I think Boris and Gove are too divisive to be PM. Like you said earlier, Boris has been a bit of an opportunist in this. I think someone like David Davis would be a great pick actually... smart, pragmatic and a Brexiter. A safe pair of hands is needed at this stage.

 

[Federberg]

Astonishing result Federberg... Fortunately it was daytime here and I followed the whole thing from start to finish. Stunned really... but happy

When I saw the counts for Newcastle and Sunderland... it was "wait a minute... this might not be a done deal"... and then Swansea was game on. Then REMAIN overtook LEAVE again with some big Scotland and London results... but then the rest of the England and Welsh votes came flooding in like a tidal wave... Incredible events.

Cameron has announced he is standing down as PM - to be effective as of October time... I think the Tories will regroup but it needs to be behind the right man. I think Boris and Gove are too divisive to be PM. Like you said earlier, Boris has been a bit of an opportunist in this. I think someone like David Davis would be a great pick actually... smart, pragmatic and a Brexiter. A safe pair of hands is needed at this stage.

Oh man! I would love David Davis to be PM, I'm a huge fan. My favourite Tory. I was woken up at around 3am here, friends in Asia and North America kept texting me, and I knew it was going to be ugly. Been up ever since. Had a coffee, and drove in to work. Been manic so far. A good day for my business, but I feel a bit hollow! Let's see what happens. I think Corbyn should go as well. It seems like the Labour vote was the clincher. If that's a precursor to a general election then he has to go surely. He was absolutely useless on the campaign

 

[britbox]

I think Corbyn privately voted OUT - he's been a Brexiter all his life until the last few months... of course, if he ever admits that then he's automatically toast. Nobody would countenance a leader that tells people to vote one way and does the opposite themselves. He's pretty ineffectual anyway.

 

[Federberg]

It wouldn't surprise me at all if he voted 'Out'. I don't blame him, I just absolute contempt for the Labour party. Didn't learn their lesson electing the wrong Milliband

 

[Federberg]

Lol! That s.o.b Farage has now retracted the 'Leave' claims that they would be able to put more money in the NHS. That was an important pledge. It's practically electoral fraud. The spiteful part of me wants these Brexiters to suffer the consequences

 

[britbox]

He's not in a position to make that pledge. He's not in government.

 

[Federberg]

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/b...on-a-week-for-nhs-was-a-mistake-a3279831.html

 

[britbox]

... and we'll see if Osbourne carries out the punitive budget he pledged to make. I doubt it.

 

[Federberg]

He's not in a position to make that pledge. He's not in government.

it was a 'Leave' campaign pledge not specifically Farage

 

[britbox]

... and we'll see if Osbourne carries out the punitive budget he pledged to make. I doubt it.

 

[Federberg]

... and we'll see if Osbourne carries out the punitive budget he pledged to make. I doubt it.

I doubt he'll be in government long enough to do that. With Cameron gone, he's toast. It will be up to the next Chancellor

 

[britbox]

No pledges on either side could be carried out. There is no "Leave Party" or "Remain Party" - the vote isn't an election.

 

[britbox]

Farage wasn't part of the Official Leave campaign either, he was operating under a separate campaign altogether.

 

[Federberg]

No pledges on either side could be carried out. There is no "Leave Party" or "Remain Party" - the vote isn't an election.

That might be so, but I know for a fact that many people were swayed by claims the NHS would get more money. Anyway.. it's done. They'll have to live with it. All this stuff is actually great for my business so I can console myself monetarily

 

[britbox]

That might be so, but I know for a fact that many people were swayed by claims the NHS would get more money. Anyway.. it's done. They'll have to live with it. All this stuff is actually great for my business so I can console myself monetarily

Maybe they will, maybe they won't... It's a wishlist item. I happen to think the money back will be used to offset money lost, at least initially. I don't know a single person who was swayed by that argument personally. Most wanted self determination or had issues with immigration. I think they were the biggest factors... I think the IN campaign probably won the economic argument but it wasn't enough.

 

[britbox]

I didn't ask "how the UK could survive" without the EU. Careful about the reading in, my friend. It's a question of the economically most beneficial. In this particular case I was quoting Paul Krugman. If "leave" has won, then I hope he's wrong.

@Moxie - It's not as simple a question of "which is most economically beneficial" - Most Brexiters would probably admit that at least in the short term, it's not the most economically beneficial choice. I happen to believe it will be in the long term but the main reasons for people I spoke with were self-determination (i.e. being able to remove people who were governing you) or issues with uncontrolled immigration and the open door policy. My main reason was based on self-determination and sovereignty... people should be able to remove governments... and I am also in favour of decentralised government as a rule of thumb.

 

[Mary]

@Moxie - It's not as simple a question of "which is most economically beneficial" - Most Brexiters would probably admit that at least in the short term, it's not the most economically beneficial choice. I happen to believe it will be in the long term but the main reasons for people I spoke with were self-determination (i.e. being able to remove people who were governing you) or issues with uncontrolled immigration and the open door policy. My main reason was based on self-determination and sovereignty... people should be able to remove governments... and I am also in favour of decentralised government as a rule of thumb.

I've been hesitant to join this discussion as everyone seems so well informed and on the ball with the issues. But this morning feels like a T shirt I once saw which said "Armageddon was yesterday. Today we have a serious problem" So here are my views and fears.

I truly think a major part of the reason behind this vote was that so many people feel alienated from our electoral system. We feel our vote doesn't count unless we are in a marginal constituency. We don't feel we can vote a government out - or in for that matter. The system is not democratic because of the way the electoral boundaries are drawn. The referendum was a rare opportunity to express dissatisfaction with the present system outside of these boundaries and this was an anti austerity vote from the most impoverished areas of the UK.

I have mixed views on the EEC as do so many people. A strong UK could of course survive although hard times would come first. But we are not a strong UK and I am sure Scotland will go for Independence now and Ireland for Unification. The referendum has done untold social and economic damage - the nation is bitterly divided by religious, political and economic views now in addition to the long standing "Have and Have not" and North/South Divisions. And the referendum has given voice to a level of racism that is unbelievable. Some think we have reclaimed sovereignty. I think we are handing the country to the extreme right wing and as an older person living on a limited income it frightens me. I am remembering the words of a politician I deeply respected many years ago.

"I warn you that you will have pain – when healing and relief depend upon payment. I warn you that you will have ignorance – when talents are untended and wits are wasted, when learning is a privilege and not a right. I warn you that you will have poverty – when pensions slip and benefits are whittled away by a government that won’t pay in an economy that can't pay. I warn you that you will be cold – when fuel charges are used as a tax system that the rich don't notice and the poor can't afford.

I warn you that you must not expect work – when many cannot spend, more will not be able to earn. When they don't earn, they don't spend. When they don't spend, work dies. I warn you not to go into the streets alone after dark or into the streets in large crowds of protest in the light. I warn you that you will be quiet – when the curfew of fear and the gibbet of unemployment make you obedient. I warn you that you will have defence of a sort – with a risk and at a price that passes all understanding. I warn you that you will be home-bound – when fares and transport bills kill leisure and lock you up. I warn you that you will borrow less – when credit, loans, mortgages and easy payments are refused to people on your melting income.

I warn you not to be ordinary. I warn you not to be young. I warn you not to fall ill. And I warn you not to grow old."