Biogenesis / Troicki / Cilic / Doping in Tennis

[britbox]

RE: World No. 15 Cilic Quietly Serving Doping Ban

I guess, we are jumping the gun both with respect to the ban being
silent and the three month length of the ban. Perhaps, the board is
just trying to decide what should be the length of the ban.

As these bans are usually applied from the date of the test,
if a player expects that he is going to be banned it is prudent for
him not to play (as any way he will lose all the points and prize
money gained during the period) until the punishment is announced.
Umag is home tourney for Cilic. He not playing it definitely indicates
that he is expecting a ban of at least three months. Also, this
(not playing in Umag) might have led to the press finding the
story and hence the timing of the release of the story.

I think it depends if the player appeals or not. If they appeal - they won't be named or banned until that process is over.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

RE: Viktor Troicki banned for 18 months

maybe he just took some recreational drug and did not want anybody to know.

Actually, Martina Hingis got caught for precisely the same thing
(viz. recreational drugs) and she was banned despite everybody
agreeing what she took cannot possibly enhance performance.
I don't exactly remember what it was. It was something like
marijuana, heroin, cocaine.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

RE: World No. 15 Cilic Quietly Serving Doping Ban

I think it depends if the player appeals or not. If they appeal - they won't be named or banned until that process is over.

There may be a minimum mandatory punishment of 3 months
for a positive test independent of excuse and/or appeal.

 

[britbox]

RE: Viktor Troicki banned for 18 months

maybe he just took some recreational drug and did not want anybody to know.

Actually, Martina Hingis got caught for precisely the same thing
(viz. recreational drugs) and she was banned despite everybody
agreeing what she took cannot possibly enhance performance.
I don't exactly remember what it was. It was something like
marijuana, heroin, cocaine.

Martina was cocaine. Agassi also flunked a test for meth and they covered up the failed test on the basis he said his drink was spiked. (He admitted in his book, that wasn't really the case but the authorities just accepted the explanation and let him off).

You can't really have the same body involved in promoting the sport and testing for doping at the same time - it's a conflict of interest.

 

[britbox]

RE: World No. 15 Cilic Quietly Serving Doping Ban

I think it depends if the player appeals or not. If they appeal - they won't be named or banned until that process is over.

There may be a minimum mandatory punishment of 3 months
for a positive test independent of excuse and/or appeal.

Ah right... Do you think that's what happened with Cilic?

 

[GameSetAndMath]

RE: Viktor Troicki banned for 18 months

maybe he just took some recreational drug and did not want anybody to know.

Actually, Martina Hingis got caught for precisely the same thing
(viz. recreational drugs) and she was banned despite everybody
agreeing what she took cannot possibly enhance performance.
I don't exactly remember what it was. It was something like
marijuana, heroin, cocaine.

Martina was cocaine. Agassi also flunked a test for meth and they covered up the failed test on the basis he said his drink was spiked. (He admitted in his book, that wasn't really the case but the authorities just accepted the explanation and let him off).

You can't really have the same body involved in promoting the sport and testing for doping at the same time - it's a conflict of interest.

Apparently, Cocaine acts as a stimulant and helps increases the
heart rate and thus is considered a banned substance as it can
aid in performance.

It is interesting to note that Martina was inducted into the
Hall of Fame despite facing a serious 2-year anti-doping ban.
What does this say aboutTennis establishment?

 

[isabelle]

RE: World No. 15 Cilic Quietly Serving Doping Ban

Nalby disqualified in Queen's....then, champ Clic banned....2 cheaters in 2012 Queen's final....what a beautiful sport tennis is !!!

 

[Front242]

RE: World No. 15 Cilic Quietly Serving Doping Ban

Nalby disqualified in Queen's....then, champ Clic banned....2 cheaters in 2012 Queen's final....what a beautiful sport tennis is !!!

Seeing as you're a big Nalbandian fan (I really like him too) I find it strange you consider that incident by Nalbandian cheating? What has kicking a wooden stand under a seat got to do with cheating? As a result of that fit of rage he lost the match, all the ranking points and prize money from the tournament. Hardly what I'd consider cheating.

 

[Front242]

RE: Viktor Troicki banned for 18 months

maybe he just took some recreational drug and did not want anybody to know.

Actually, Martina Hingis got caught for precisely the same thing
(viz. recreational drugs) and she was banned despite everybody
agreeing what she took cannot possibly enhance performance.
I don't exactly remember what it was. It was something like
marijuana, heroin, cocaine.

Martina was cocaine. Agassi also flunked a test for meth and they covered up the failed test on the basis he said his drink was spiked. (He admitted in his book, that wasn't really the case but the authorities just accepted the explanation and let him off).

You can't really have the same body involved in promoting the sport and testing for doping at the same time - it's a conflict of interest.

Apparently, Cocaine acts as a stimulant and helps increases the
heart rate and thus is considered a banned substance as it can
aid in performance.

It is interesting to note that Martina was inducted into the
Hall of Fame despite facing a serious 2-year anti-doping ban.
What does this say aboutTennis establishment?

And there are rumours (unconfirmed as yet) she's planning a full singles comeback. Again. After the ban. And the HOF induction. Probably gonna be broke after her upcoming divorce and sees the mess the WTA is in and fancies her chances.

 

[Moxie]

RE: Biogenesis Scandal - Tennis Players on the books

Seems the doping saga of events will continue with the Biogenesis scandal where tennis players are said to be among the clientele.

http://tennis.si.com/2013/07/26/daily-bagel-tennis-players-biogenesis/

I don't think this was a useful "article" to have quoted, and putting "tennis players on the books" in the thread title seems an over-statement. The SI piece is just bullet points about a lot of things, and also mentions that Fognini is about to win his 3rd title in 3 weeks, which makes an unfortunate, and I'm sure unintended, association. The imbedded article which is more germane is here. Tennis is mentioned in passing.

I still maintain that our sport is quite clean.

huge problem still exists in the following sports:

1. baseball
2. basketball
3. NFL (American football)
4. cycling
5. track and field

perhaps swimming too but I am just guessing.

How does "guessing" even count? It doesn't seem fair to be so convinced about tennis, and then just slander swimming. I'd like to think that tennis is mostly clean, too. And there's little to argue with about your list, (maybe basketball,) but you can't just make other stuff up.

 

[Front242]

RE: Biogenesis Scandal - Tennis Players on the books

Miami is one of the main doping centres in the world right now so hopefully some of the dirty cheating scum will get exposed at some stage. For top players though it may take years.

---

they have to be very low level players. nobody gives a damn about them.


they are not the ones who are driving the sport.

I would never suspect the top guns in a million years. they have too much to lose.

and besides they are too damn good anyway.



that being said, the public will still be curious now. who are these low level players?

---

I still maintain that our sport is quite clean.

huge problem still exists in the following sports:

1. baseball
2. basketball
3. NFL (American football)
4. cycling
5. track and field


perhaps swimming too but I am just guessing.

---

I'm guessing also a huge problem exists in tennis and you should ask yourself why exactly are the top players so dominant and fitter than everyone else. Gone through this already. They have tons to lose but more to gain (money, fame, records) than the lower ranked players can ever hope to achieve. Again, think of our friend Lance. He was at the top for years and in the end guilty as hell and stripped of everything. The public aren't curious about the lower players as most suspect the higher ranked players and with good reason. You think the public suspected nobodies over Armstrong? Surely the people winning everything in sight stick out more in every sport.

 

[Moxie]

RE: Viktor Troicki banned for 18 months

A few tennis sites and journalists are tweeting this link. re: Cilic

http://www.changeovertennis.com/report-marin-cilic-failed-doping-test-in-munich/

Cheers for posting this but what the hell is so bad about glucose lol? Carb loading for energy isn't a crime?!

Yeah, but you're assuming Team Cilic are telling the truth. It's probably as likely a story as Alberto Contador eating a contaminated steak. If you look at the excuses made by dopers most of the boil down to one of the following three:

a) Asthma medication
b) Medication for a cold
c) Badly labelled over the counter supplements.

I doubt the story.

But what about the fact that all of those things can contaminate a sample? Back when Djokovic's fitness issue was widely believed to be due to asthma, it was understood that he couldn't take medication for it, which seemed cruel. And a lot of cold medications DO contain "ephedrines" which are on the controlled list. Keep in mind that tennis players travel the world, and, if they get sick, they need to get OTC medications in countries where they can't necessarily read the labels. Even if a player is rich enough to travel with a physio, those people aren't linguists, or "brain surgeons," so some mistakes actually can be made.

I realize that not every failed test can be put down to a simple mistake, but it must be possible that some can. Since the WADA list of controlled substances is strict, and contains a fair number of things that are widely available over the counter, and since "OTC" varies country-to-country, at least the jury of the internet ought to be a little open-minded. Presumably, the ITF has more information than we do.

 

[Moxie]

RE: Biogenesis Scandal - Tennis Players on the books

^ Front, if you believe this, then why do you even follow tennis? Or, (let's just say it,) is it that you think Roger is sterling, and squeaky clean, and Rafa, and perhaps the other 2 dope? Or do you even suspect Federer? If you're going to make the Armstrong analogy, and talk about players "winning everything in sight" then you do imply TMF. So, how far do you think it extends?

For my own part, I do wonder why anyone would follow cycling, at this point.

 

[britbox]

RE: Biogenesis Scandal - Tennis Players on the books

Right now is probably the best time to follow cycling, because the scandals are forcing them clean house.

Now, I don't think for a minute that Tennis has the same ingrained doping problem as cycling, but it needs a wake up call to get the house in order and prevent this becoming a major issue. The French Senate released a report this week that criticised the level of testing in tennis, tennis players have been named as clients for Fuentes, Garcia del Moral and now this clinic in Miami.

I would rather see tennis take a small step backward to take two giant strides forward.

These issues are mainstream news Moxie and tennis has been mentioned in all of them. There is obviously an issue with doping and/or the testing process. Better that the sport gets to grips with it and sorts it out now rather than becoming engrossed in far more damaging larger scandals further down the line.

 

[Moxie]

RE: Biogenesis Scandal - Tennis Players on the books

I agree, and we've discussed why proving and not just hoping the sport is clean is important, and ways of moving forward on that, all of which I agree with. My argument is against a "hair-on-fire" approach to every article on the internet. Of the sports that are dirty, I doubt tennis is amongst the dirtiest, and I've stated my reasons why I don't think doping really helps that much in tennis. Cilic and Troicki have been called out recently, and I would only say that we should proceed with caution, particularly when potentially damaging a specific player. What I most object to is innuendo, of which there is all too much. However, why should it be hard to make the testing process and the results more universal and less opaque?

 

[Srini]

RE: Viktor Troicki banned for 18 months

18 months is a long time, especially when you are 26/27. I find Troicki's version fishy. I am not saying he is guilty but being on tour you have to know that you will be in trouble for refusing to take blood test. Also I think the doctor in charge would have conveyed it to him in some way. He has a phobia for needles but its very naive to say the doctor assured him its ok not to take the blood test and he believed her. Its common sense that if its not on record, it never happened - you could be right but it doesnt matter. If it was just a miscalculation or carelessness by him, it will turn out to be a very costly mistake.

 

[britbox]

RE: Biogenesis Scandal - Tennis Players on the books

I think that's all it needs - transparency. Having an independent body doing the testing rather than the ITF (who are involved in promoting the sport). Putting more money into testing (particularly blood testing) and finally storing random samples for future testing years down the line.

I think that would solve the problem as in giving the fans peace of mind. That won't eradicate doping (nothing ever will) but it's about as good as it will get.

 

[Grossefavourite]

RE: World No. 15 Cilic Quietly Serving Doping Ban

The plot thickens. Apparently he had passed a doping control in Monte Carlo only 2 weeks prior. Perhaps he thought he would not have been controlled again so soon? Anyway, a glucose supplement? Sugar pills? Is this serious? Is glucose a masking agent?

Cilic's positive test shows though that you don't have to be muscular to be on drugs, as cyclists had already shown.

 

[Srini]

RE: World No. 15 Cilic Quietly Serving Doping Ban

Very shocking. I really like Cilic. If he did fail the doping test, you got to wonder if he has been doing it all along. And not sure how many out there were doing it, its just disappointing as a tennis fan. But I guess I should be happy the authorities are taking the doping issue seriously.

 

[britbox]

RE: Viktor Troicki banned for 18 months

A few tennis sites and journalists are tweeting this link. re: Cilic

http://www.changeovertennis.com/report-marin-cilic-failed-doping-test-in-munich/

Cheers for posting this but what the hell is so bad about glucose lol? Carb loading for energy isn't a crime?!

Yeah, but you're assuming Team Cilic are telling the truth. It's probably as likely a story as Alberto Contador eating a contaminated steak. If you look at the excuses made by dopers most of the boil down to one of the following three:

a) Asthma medication
b) Medication for a cold
c) Badly labelled over the counter supplements.

I doubt the story.

But what about the fact that all of those things can contaminate a sample? Back when Djokovic's fitness issue was widely believed to be due to asthma, it was understood that he couldn't take medication for it, which seemed cruel. And a lot of cold medications DO contain "ephedrines" which are on the controlled list. Keep in mind that tennis players travel the world, and, if they get sick, they need to get OTC medications in countries where they can't necessarily read the labels. Even if a player is rich enough to travel with a physio, those people aren't linguists, or "brain surgeons," so some mistakes actually can be made.

I realize that not every failed test can be put down to a simple mistake, but it must be possible that some can. Since the WADA list of controlled substances is strict, and contains a fair number of things that are widely available over the counter, and since "OTC" varies country-to-country, at least the jury of the internet ought to be a little open-minded. Presumably, the ITF has more information than we do.

You can usually get an exemption certificate for certain medical conditions - you can in cycling at least and they are both signed up to the same WADA code.

The things I mentioned above are usually excuses made AFTER an athlete has been caught and where they haven't advised the authorities of the condition beforehand.