Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Day 1

[huntingyou]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

It's the same old story with you, I could probably go back to every YEC thread the last 7 years and find the exact same response. The bounce of the ball is always the most important thing for Rafa because if the spin is not a factor he has no offensive ability. That backhand is not scaring anybody on a consistent basis and he will actually have to flatten out the forehand to end points. He will be fine vs. the cupcakes in his section but come the semis it is going to be a battle. You can call it harsh or underestimating him but it is the truth. If his forehand isn't bouncing high and exploding off the court he is mostly a pusher. Fatigue has never been a factor. They get a long break after USO and guys like Roger and Nole have often come into the Fall season having played more matches. You think if these matches were on clay or even a surface like USO he would still be playing like a scrub this time of year? Get real.

Roger at 32, 35, or whatever has a higher ceiling than Rafa on this surface, if he is actually playing good attacking tennis without missing one out of 2 balls he should beat Rafa at YEC just like he always does. And if he makes the semis that means he beat DP again and would have real confidence, we will talk in a week if it happens. The last set of 2010 was 6-1 by the way, not sure how that is hanging in for 2.5 sets.

Are you cali now? You are the broken record no pun intended and actually your posts throughout the years originated from the mind of a flake fan who understand very little what goes on a tennis court. According to you and your "should" logic, Rafa wouldn't have victories twice over Novak at the UO, and Olympics. Rafa shouldn't have never won Cincinnati.....damn, according to your insight, Roger should have never lost a match outside of clay to anybody let alone Rafa.

I could care what the "hypothetical" world "ceiling" means here. I speak from reality, players have to go out there and hit the tennis ball one more time over the net than their opponent. I make no excuse for Rafa.....the FACT is Rafa more often than not arrives spent, injured or miss the tournament altogether. You are one of the preachers of Rafa's "grinding" game but now pretends his grinding game have no effect to his results at the end of the year?

Since Rafa reached his peak and brushed Roger aside for good in 2008, he has miss the WTF a couple of times and other times have arrived with no form what so ever (2009). Listen, it's Rafa's fault but my point is not lack of ability but the reality of the schedule and his demanding style at that time of the year.

Finally, who is taking you seriously? You call Nadal a pusher due to the surface but ignore his 2010 results, dismiss Murray/Rafa titanic SF match because according to you Murray wasn't great and says Rafa it's never spent at this time of the year. Put the indoor season in the middle of the season and I will tell you about story about Rafa beating Roger yet again.

 

[brokenshoelace]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

We can start bringing up how weakened Roger was in 2008 but I'm guessing no Rafa fans will want to talk about that.

:snigger :lolz:

Just going with the flow of the conversation, the usual excuses for every Rafa loss. With Roger in 08 the weak results were his doing, I don't roll that way.

I'd sign up for that game. We only need to come up with 10 excuses...you need 21

 

[huntingyou]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

We can start bringing up how weakened Roger was in 2008 but I'm guessing no Rafa fans will want to talk about that.

:snigger :lolz:

Just going with the flow of the conversation, the usual excuses for every Rafa loss. With Roger in 08 the weak results were his doing, I don't roll that way.

Roger's weak results in 2008 were Rafa's undoing........and Novak at the AO. He was surpassed!

 

[brokenshoelace]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

I have made a basket of excuses to facilitate choosing:

- Clay, Clay, Clay, Choke, Mental, Old, Old Clay, Choke, Giant Choke, Played like Crap, Old, Old, Old...

- Too young, young, knees, knees, fatigue, knees AND fatigue, Indoors + knees + fatigue, indoors, indoors, knees, wind...

Let's go!

 

[Kieran]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

Let's just say that Roger was comparatively weak in 2008. Compared to Rafa, he was weak...

 

[DarthFed]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

It's the same old story with you, I could probably go back to every YEC thread the last 7 years and find the exact same response. The bounce of the ball is always the most important thing for Rafa because if the spin is not a factor he has no offensive ability. That backhand is not scaring anybody on a consistent basis and he will actually have to flatten out the forehand to end points. He will be fine vs. the cupcakes in his section but come the semis it is going to be a battle. You can call it harsh or underestimating him but it is the truth. If his forehand isn't bouncing high and exploding off the court he is mostly a pusher. Fatigue has never been a factor. They get a long break after USO and guys like Roger and Nole have often come into the Fall season having played more matches. You think if these matches were on clay or even a surface like USO he would still be playing like a scrub this time of year? Get real.

Roger at 32, 35, or whatever has a higher ceiling than Rafa on this surface, if he is actually playing good attacking tennis without missing one out of 2 balls he should beat Rafa at YEC just like he always does. And if he makes the semis that means he beat DP again and would have real confidence, we will talk in a week if it happens. The last set of 2010 was 6-1 by the way, not sure how that is hanging in for 2.5 sets.

Are you cali now? You are the broken record no pun intended and actually your posts throughout the years originated from the mind of a flake fan who understand very little what goes on a tennis court. According to you and your "should" logic, Rafa wouldn't have victories twice over Novak at the UO, and Olympics. Rafa shouldn't have never won Cincinnati.....damn, according to your insight, Roger should have never lost a match outside of clay to anybody let alone Rafa.




I could care what the "hypothetical" world "ceiling" means here. I speak from reality, players have to go out there and hit the tennis ball one more time over the net than their opponent. I make no excuse for Rafa.....the FACT is Rafa more often than not arrives spent, injured or miss the tournament altogether. You are one of the preachers of Rafa's "grinding" game but now pretends his grinding game have no effect to his results at the end of the year?

Since Rafa reached his peak and brushed Roger aside for good in 2008, he has miss the WTF a couple of times and other times have arrived with no form what so ever (2009). Listen, it's Rafa's fault but my point is not lack of ability but the reality of the schedule and his demanding style at that time of the year.

Finally, who is taking you seriously? You call Nadal a pusher due to the surface but ignore his 2010 results, dismiss Murray/Rafa titanic SF match because according to you Murray wasn't great and says Rafa it's never spent at this time of the year. Put the indoor season in the middle of the season and I will tell you about story about Rafa beating Roger yet again.

Lol it's now fact that Rafa was fatigued and that's why he did horrible at YEC throughout the years. I give up, you are the biggest fanboy out there.

When I talk if ceiling it is about probability, Roger has owned Rafa indoors because the matchup is best for him when the bounce is low. Of course he can lose to Rafa, he has been embarrassed by the guy everywhere else.

 

[huntingyou]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

Lol it's now fact that Rafa was fatigued and that's why he did horrible at YEC throughout the years. I give up, you are the biggest fanboy out there.

When I talk if ceiling it is about probability, Roger has owned Rafa indoors because the matchup is best for him when the bounce is low. Of course he can lose to Rafa, he has been embarrassed by the guy everywhere else.

you can't read...........

no, I said Rafa missed two YEC after reaching his prime (2008, 2012) and another he arrived with no form and confidence (2009). That leaves us 2010 and 2011. In 2010, Rafa played a grea tournament and challenged Roger shot for shot until the middle of the third set (he was fighting still after getting broken the first time). In 2011, he was utterly embarrassed by Roger......needless to say, Rafa needs to be ON to have a chance. I'm not denying the superiority of Roger, but in today in 2013....Rafa has excellent chances and Roger has very little chance according to what has transpired throughout the season including the fall season.

 

[NADAL2005RG]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

Lol, it was a 3 set match vs. a Murray who wasn't even great yet. It was his fault for even needing to go that long in the first place and we are also talking about the most fit tennis player ever in Whafa. He was fine in that final. We can start bringing up how weakened Roger was in 2008 but I'm guessing no Rafa fans will want to talk about that.

What's your point? It was a marathon semi vs the 5th best player in the world. 7-6(5), 3-6, 7-6(6), an extremely grueling match of long baseline exchanges. The next day, Nadal played Federer. Nadal has never been known for being fit for the entirety of a year. Even at age 30, from October 2011-early2012 Federer won 26 matches in a row. That's so fit it defies logic.

Not sure how Wimbledon 2008 is relevant, but are Federer's dreamy results:
R1: 6-3, 6-2, 6-2
R2: 6-3, 6-4, 7-6
R3: 6-3, 6-3, 6-1
R4: 7-6, 6-2, 6-4
QF: 6-1, 7-5, 6-4
SF: 6-3, 7-6, 6-4
F: Still lost....and blamed the darkness.

And then Federer won the 2008 US Open. Anyway, 2008 slam results are very off-topic. Case closed.

 

[Kieran]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

Ah, the old Fedal Wars! Them was the Days! Battling with the Djokolites just isn't the same!

 

[DarthFed]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

Lol it's now fact that Rafa was fatigued and that's why he did horrible at YEC throughout the years. I give up, you are the biggest fanboy out there.

When I talk if ceiling it is about probability, Roger has owned Rafa indoors because the matchup is best for him when the bounce is low. Of course he can lose to Rafa, he has been embarrassed by the guy everywhere else.

you can't read...........

no, I said Rafa missed two YEC after reaching his prime (2008, 2012) and another he arrived with no form and confidence (2009). That leaves us 2010 and 2011. In 2010, Rafa played a grea tournament and challenged Roger shot for shot until the middle of the third set (he was fighting still after getting broken the first time). In 2011, he was utterly embarrassed by Roger......needless to say, Rafa needs to be ON to have a chance. I'm not denying the superiority of Roger, but in today in 2013....Rafa has excellent chances and Roger has very little chance according to what has transpired throughout the season including the fall season.

I can read fine, aside from the 2 he missed he still hasn't done crap there and the fatigue excuse is out there. Rogers fall season has been just as mediocre as Rafa's, we will see how it goes this week. If Roger actually plays decent enough to get to the semis I like his chances vs anyone but Djoker.

 

[DarthFed]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

Lol, it was a 3 set match vs. a Murray who wasn't even great yet. It was his fault for even needing to go that long in the first place and we are also talking about the most fit tennis player ever in Whafa. He was fine in that final. We can start bringing up how weakened Roger was in 2008 but I'm guessing no Rafa fans will want to talk about that.

What's your point? It was a marathon semi vs the 5th best player in the world. 7-6(5), 3-6, 7-6(6), an extremely grueling match of long baseline exchanges. The next day, Nadal played Federer. Nadal has never been known for being fit for the entirety of a year. Even at age 30, from October 2011-early2012 Federer won 26 matches in a row. That's so fit it defies logic.

Not sure how Wimbledon 2008 is relevant, but are Federer's dreamy results:
R1: 6-3, 6-2, 6-2
R2: 6-3, 6-4, 7-6
R3: 6-3, 6-3, 6-1
R4: 7-6, 6-2, 6-4
QF: 6-1, 7-5, 6-4
SF: 6-3, 7-6, 6-4
F: Still lost....and blamed the darkness.

And then Federer won the 2008 US Open. Anyway, 2008 slam results are very off-topic. Case closed.

It isn't logic defying, he was the best player indoors by a country mile until last year.

2008 is for the Rafs fans who excuse every loss of his, they then get defensive when it's brought up how weak Roger played in 2008 after mono. Including the deified Wimbledon. 08 final where Roger was supposedly heroic in failure!

 

[Denis]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

I must say I am not happy with the scheduling. There putting up the two finalists today on Tuesday against the toughest opponent. Lets hope David is fully recovered for his match against Nadal. Djokovic needs to defeat Federer. Again. Indoors.... Well let's hope for the best.

 

[nehmeth]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

I must say I am not happy with the scheduling. There putting up the two finalists today on Tuesday against the toughest opponent. Lets hope David is fully recovered for his match against Nadal. Djokovic needs to defeat Federer. Again. Indoors.... Well let's hope for the best.

Ferrer was able knock off Ralf in 2 at Bercy. No reason why he won't do it again. :snigger

Novak playing Fed in London... it will be loudly for Fed. If Nole doesn't take the first set, I wonder if he kills himself to win or if he focuses on winning the next two.

 

[Denis]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

I hope he does. A little extra pain is okay considering it might help for the year end no 1. Also, h2h against Federer will improve to 15 -16 if he wins.

 

[Mastoor]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

I must say I am not happy with the scheduling. There putting up the two finalists today on Tuesday against the toughest opponent. Lets hope David is fully recovered for his match against Nadal. Djokovic needs to defeat Federer. Again. Indoors.... Well let's hope for the best.

That

 

[Kieran]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

Yeah, Federer will end his career with the worst h2h of any great player against his supposedly inferior rivals...

 

[Mastoor]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

I must say I am not happy with the scheduling. There putting up the two finalists today on Tuesday against the toughest opponent. Lets hope David is fully recovered for his match against Nadal. Djokovic needs to defeat Federer. Again. Indoors.... Well let's hope for the best.

Ferrer was able knock off Ralf in 2 at Bercy. No reason why he won't do it again. :snigger

Novak playing Fed in London... it will be loudly for Fed. If Nole doesn't take the first set, I wonder if he kills himself to win or if he focuses on winning the next two.

He should kill himself to win, tank Delpo and beat Gasquet.

 

[Kieran]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

All this talk about tanking. :nono

Rafa tanked, Tipsy should tank a DC match to help Nole, Nole should tank a match against DP. Is this gonna be the new thing we cheer? "Yeah, Rafa didn't win, he tanked, so we congratulate him first - then his fans, of course - and then his opponent for being so naive as to actually win. And by the way, did you see Nole's tank? Such an obvious one!"

It's getting a bit silly. They're professionals - they should be banned if they tank. People don't pay good money to watch brats throw tennis matches...

EDIT: And fans shouldn't want their player to tank! It's tantamount to encouraging them to cheat. Stand up for the paying fans who want to see competitive matches!

 

[nehmeth]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

I must say I am not happy with the scheduling. There putting up the two finalists today on Tuesday against the toughest opponent. Lets hope David is fully recovered for his match against Nadal. Djokovic needs to defeat Federer. Again. Indoors.... Well let's hope for the best.

Ferrer was able knock off Ralf in 2 at Bercy. No reason why he won't do it again. :snigger

Novak playing Fed in London... it will be loudly for Fed. If Nole doesn't take the first set, I wonder if he kills himself to win or if he focuses on winning the next two.

He should kill himself to win, tank Delpo and beat Gasquet.

Doesn't he have to win all his matches to even have a chance at #1?

 

[nehmeth]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

They're professionals - they should be banned if they tank.

:lolz:

There would be a lot of professionals banned from tennis over the years.
(not saying that it's okay or that I even like the idea, just that it's been happening for some time now)