Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Day 1

[nehmeth]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

So you reckon Ferrer finally learned how to beat Rafa. I doubt.

It wasn't the first time he beats him. And nobody is suggesting this is a turning point or anything.

And no one was suggesting Ralf was putting his normally herculean effort into winning either. Had Roger won the first semi, who knows? He might have done his usual dusting of David in anticipation of expanding his h2h with the "goat".

You think he's afraid of expanding his h2h with Nole?

:snigger Not at all, although he might have been thinking about his h2h lead dropping by one more

 

[Kieran]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

So you reckon Ferrer finally learned how to beat Rafa. I doubt.

It wasn't the first time he beats him. And nobody is suggesting this is a turning point or anything.

And no one was suggesting Ralf was putting his normally herculean effort into winning either. Had Roger won the first semi, who knows? He might have done his usual dusting of David in anticipation of expanding his h2h with the "goat".

You think he's afraid of expanding his h2h with Nole?

:snigger Not at all, although he might have been thinking about his h2h lead dropping by one more

You think it matters that much? He's more or less had his way with Nole on the big stage since Oz 2012. I think the days of fearing Nole have long since passed...

 

[nehmeth]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

Who mentioned the word "fearing" Novak? You did.

 

[Kieran]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

Who mentioned the word "fearing" Novak? You did.

Why else would he avoid him? Isn't that your suggestion? He'd have upped his effort if Roger had won. Your insinuation isn't that he was avoiding a chance to lose to Nole?

 

[nehmeth]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

Who mentioned the word "fearing" Novak? You did.

Why else would he avoid him? Isn't that your suggestion? He'd have upped his effort if Roger had won. Your insinuation isn't that he was avoiding a chance to lose to Nole?

I did not mention fearing Novak or even insinuate it. Would the outcome of the match been different if Roger was in the final - I wrote, "Who knows?"

I did say Rafa did not give his best effort and that we would see a difference when he plays Ferrer in London. If he loses to Ferrer the way he did yesterday I will happily eat my words.

 

[Kieran]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

Why would the outcome be different if Roger was in the final? You think Rafa's effort was contingent on whether or not he faces Nole?

 

[NADAL2005RG]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

With the World Tour Finals about to being, would Nadal have been more happy to play a quick final (Federer/Nadal play quick points) than long grinding rallies with Djokovic? Yes, he'd have been more happy to play Federer.

 

[nehmeth]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

Why would the outcome be different if Roger was in the final?

Quoted below is a post you previously responded to. The answer to your question is in there. I did not say the outcome would have been different, only that it might have been and why.

Had Roger won the first semi, who knows? He might have done his usual dusting of David in anticipation of expanding his h2h with the "goat".

 

[Kieran]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

I think it's moot either way, but Rafa has a healthy h2h against any of them. Hopefully he'll expand it in London...

 

[nehmeth]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

I think it's moot either way

Exactly.. Ralf will get his two wins in at London and be happy to check out as year end #1.

 

[Denis]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

I think it's moot either way

Exactly.. Ralf will get his two wins in at London and be happy to check out as year end #1.

Most likely yes. The surface in London is also slower than in Paris, which will help him.

But I need to see it first.

 

[DarthFed]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

The surface in London also has a dead bounce. Speed is secondary to Rafa, what is way more important is how the court takes his precious topspin. Either way had Roger gotten by Nole I'd have liked his chances vs. Rafa or Ferrer in the final. Same if he is to advance to the semis of London which I don't think he will. Momentum/confidence is a new feel for Roger this year but we already know if he plays anywhere near capabilities he won't lose indoors to anyone but Nole,

 

[Kieran]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

I think it's moot either way

Exactly.. Ralf will get his two wins in at London and be happy to check out as year end #1.

Most likely yes. The surface in London is also slower than in Paris, which will help him.

But I need to see it first.

You and me both, my friend! But it's been a great race either way. Kudos to Nole for revving it up since Flushing Meadows...

 

[huntingyou]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

The surface in London also has a dead bounce. Speed is secondary to Rafa, what is way more important is how the court takes his precious topspin. Either way had Roger gotten by Nole I'd have liked his chances vs. Rafa or Ferrer in the final. Same if he is to advance to the semis of London which I don't think he will. Momentum/confidence is a new feel for Roger this year but we already know if he plays anywhere near capabilities he won't lose indoors to anyone but Nole,

You are in for a rude awakening if you think Roger can beat Rafa next weekend. You talk about topspin as if that's all there is to it.

What's near capabilities? That's just baloney, why play matches then?....just do Dungeons and Dragons and give Roger the win. The fact is Rafa is HEALTHY and RESTED and when he is fit then he is capable of winning any tournament he enters regardless of surface and opponent.

The indoor narrative when it comes to Rafa it's exaggerated and misleading. Time of the year it's the bigger factor here. No doubt it's his worst surface but we are talking about an all time great here. Tennis is still tennis

In 2010 Rafa went toe to toe against Roger for 2 and half sets despite having a grueling battle against Murray the day prior. There is no Murray or Novak in his group.......a SF match between these two only has one outcome. Now, if he has to go through Novak in a SF match and somehow survives that.....then Roger as always, will be ready to pick up the carcass as he has done in the past quite successfully.

 

[NADAL2005RG]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

2013 is my favorite World Tour Finals of all-time. The most unpredictable in years, because Federer is sinking into oblivion, and the in-form indoorers (Djokovic/Del Potro) have overplayed. There could be some surprise semi-finalists.

 

[DarthFed]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

The surface in London also has a dead bounce. Speed is secondary to Rafa, what is way more important is how the court takes his precious topspin. Either way had Roger gotten by Nole I'd have liked his chances vs. Rafa or Ferrer in the final. Same if he is to advance to the semis of London which I don't think he will. Momentum/confidence is a new feel for Roger this year but we already know if he plays anywhere near capabilities he won't lose indoors to anyone but Nole,

You are in for a rude awakening if you think Roger can beat Rafa next weekend. You talk about topspin as if that's all there is to it.

What's near capabilities? That's just baloney, why play matches then?....just do Dungeons and Dragons and give Roger the win. The fact is Rafa is HEALTHY and RESTED and when he is fit then he is capable of winning any tournament he enters regardless of surface and opponent.

The indoor narrative when it comes to Rafa it's exaggerated and misleading. Time of the year it's the bigger factor here. No doubt it's his worst surface but we are talking about an all time great here. Tennis is still tennis

In 2010 Rafa went toe to toe against Roger for 2 and half sets despite having a grueling battle against Murray the day prior. There is no Murray or Novak in his group.......a SF match between these two only has one outcome. Now, if he has to go through Novak in a SF match and somehow survives that.....then Roger as always, will be ready to pick up the carcass as he has done in the past quite successfully.

It's the same old story with you, I could probably go back to every YEC thread the last 7 years and find the exact same response. The bounce of the ball is always the most important thing for Rafa because if the spin is not a factor he has no offensive ability. That backhand is not scaring anybody on a consistent basis and he will actually have to flatten out the forehand to end points. He will be fine vs. the cupcakes in his section but come the semis it is going to be a battle. You can call it harsh or underestimating him but it is the truth. If his forehand isn't bouncing high and exploding off the court he is mostly a pusher. Fatigue has never been a factor. They get a long break after USO and guys like Roger and Nole have often come into the Fall season having played more matches. You think if these matches were on clay or even a surface like USO he would still be playing like a scrub this time of year? Get real.

Roger at 32, 35, or whatever has a higher ceiling than Rafa on this surface, if he is actually playing good attacking tennis without missing one out of 2 balls he should beat Rafa at YEC just like he always does. And if he makes the semis that means he beat DP again and would have real confidence, we will talk in a week if it happens. The last set of 2010 was 6-1 by the way, not sure how that is hanging in for 2.5 sets.

 

[NADAL2005RG]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

Yeah but Nadal played one of the more grueling 3-setters of his career when he beat Murray in the semi, just before that Federer final. I definitely like Nadal's chances of eliminating Federer at this years World Tour Finals. Nadal is fresher than he's ever been heading into a World Tour Finals. He's played this year to perfection.

 

[DarthFed]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

Lol, it was a 3 set match vs. a Murray who wasn't even great yet. It was his fault for even needing to go that long in the first place and we are also talking about the most fit tennis player ever in Whafa. He was fine in that final. We can start bringing up how weakened Roger was in 2008 but I'm guessing no Rafa fans will want to talk about that.

 

[Kieran]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

We can start bringing up how weakened Roger was in 2008 but I'm guessing no Rafa fans will want to talk about that.

:snigger :lolz:

 

[DarthFed]

RE: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Nov. 4-11

We can start bringing up how weakened Roger was in 2008 but I'm guessing no Rafa fans will want to talk about that.

:snigger :lolz:

Just going with the flow of the conversation, the usual excuses for every Rafa loss. With Roger in 08 the weak results were his doing, I don't roll that way.