Australian Open Final 2018: Federer v Cilic

[britbox]

Those 50 are probably starving atm....

Nah, i just stated the obvious, that we are still in a very primitive era of tennis where the person from one of the most corrupt ( and one of the richest) countries wins....

What rank is Gulbis? Doesn't he come from the richest family on the tour?

 

[Federberg]

What rank is Gulbis? Doesn't he come from the richest family on the tour?

I'm sure the Federer's would give them a run for their money!

 

[Moxie]

The most storied rivalry. Absolutely. But if you really think people are going to remember the H2H more than the number of slams, you really are living on an island.... and it ain't Manhattan

Oh, it's absolutely about the Slams. I don't deny that. But if you think the rivalry isn't going to remembered, you're living on an island, and it ain't Britain.

 

[I.Haychew]

You agree that Nadal is the clay GOAT, I'm guessing. And that no one has done what Laver has done, even in the Open Era. So how is there only "one?"

"Greatest", by definition = only one. If you want to limit it to clay, then fine...I'll concede that Folks is the GOAT.But I didn't realize that the So-called GOAT is limited to clay.

 

[Federberg]

Oh, it's absolutely about the Slams. I don't deny that. But if you think the rivalry isn't going to remembered, you're living on an island, and it ain't Britain.

I just said their rivalry is the most storied. Not sure why you would then think it wouldn't be remembered. People talk Borg-Mac for example. But few even remember who won that H2H. They do remember that Borg ended up with 4 more slams than Mac though...

 

[Moxie]

"Greatest", by definition = only one. If you want to limit it to clay, then fine...I'll concede that Folks is the GOAT.But I didn't realize that the So-called GOAT is limited to clay.

You miss the point. If Rafa can be the greatest on clay, how can someone else be just the greatest? In the same era? I'm not saying that Roger isn't fabulous and amazing. I'm saying there just isn't one GOAT. I don't really believe that things can be quantified that way. And even if you do, I think Rafa has been a governor on that, in their rivalry.

 

[britbox]

This. I think it started with Michael Jordan, too, and I've said so, before. It's a media construct. Then tennis needed one and golf and etc. When someone might have said Borg, for example, in his time, was the GOAT, and he was, arguably, at his zenith, it wasn't even a thing.

But if there is one....

 

[DarthFed]

I can honestly say Moxie that if Roger had been playing well and lost I would probably have enjoyed it more

I got to disagree there. An ugly win is still better than a beautiful loss if such a thing exists. You don't get any extra points for style. It certainly was a bizarre match, not a classic 5 setter by any means, but I will gladly take #20. The second set was just poor strategy, and I think the fourth set he got nervous when he saw the finish line and he also couldn't buy a first serve. In a way it's admirable that he still feels pressure after all he's accomplished. He stepped up the serve in the fifth and watched Cilic implode.

 

[Federberg]

I got to disagree there. An ugly win is still better than a beautiful loss if such a thing exists. You don't get any extra points for style. It certainly was a bizarre match, not a classic 5 setter by any means, but I will gladly take #20. The second set was just poor strategy, and I think the fourth set he got nervous when he saw the finish line and he also couldn't buy a first serve. In a way it's admirable that he still feels pressure after all he's accomplished. He stepped up the serve in the fifth and watched Cilic implode.

No you misunderstand. I would have enjoyed watching the match live as it was happening. Of course I would have hated the result. But this felt out of control to me. Didn't enjoy it much

 

[GameSetAndMath]

People often say Roger is very stoic on the court. Today, in the 5th set he let out huge scream after saving BPs and there were several come ons later on as well.

 

[Nekro]

What rank is Gulbis? Doesn't he come from the richest family on the tour?

In Gulbis' country the cultural atmosphere is totally different...

Anyway, all i wanted to say is that Roger's result would be more convincing if he wasn't from the most corrupt country in the world, where the standards of living are the highest in europe, where kids get the best tennis coaching easily, where financial security makes people's lives easy and stressless, where there's the best drug industry in the world, etc etc.....

 

[Moxie]

I got to disagree there. An ugly win is still better than a beautiful loss if such a thing exists. You don't get any extra points for style. It certainly was a bizarre match, not a classic 5 setter by any means, but I will gladly take #20. The second set was just poor strategy, and I think the fourth set he got nervous when he saw the finish line and he also couldn't buy a first serve. In a way it's admirable that he still feels pressure after all he's accomplished. He stepped up the serve in the fifth and watched Cilic implode.

It doesn't always have to be beautiful. Sometimes is just has to be clutch. It's not ballet, it's sport.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I got to disagree there. An ugly win is still better than a beautiful loss if such a thing exists. You don't get any extra points for style. It certainly was a bizarre match, not a classic 5 setter by any means, but I will gladly take #20. The second set was just poor strategy, and I think the fourth set he got nervous when he saw the finish line and he also couldn't buy a first serve. In a way it's admirable that he still feels pressure after all he's accomplished. He stepped up the serve in the fifth and watched Cilic implode.

Especially today, it would have been devastating to lose the match after being in a winning position and that too to a non-big four opponent.

Fed has lost GS finals 10 times, but 9 of them were to big four members (the lone exception being JMDP).

 

[Moxie]

People often say Roger is very stoic on the court. Today, in the 5th set he let out huge scream after saving BPs and there were several come ons later on as well.

No, he screams a lot.

 

[DarthFed]

No you misunderstand. I would have enjoyed watching the match live as it was happening. Of course I would have hated the result. But this felt out of control to me. Didn't enjoy it much

Yeah that's true. I guess it was in some ways the least entertaining five set match I can remember in quite some time. There weren't many good rallies but part of that is due to Cilic swinging for the fences.

 

[Moxie]

I just said their rivalry is the most storied. Not sure why you would then think it wouldn't be remembered. People talk Borg-Mac for example. But few even remember who won that H2H. They do remember that Borg ended up with 4 more slams than Mac though...

No they don't. They have to look it up. They don't even remember who won that '80 final. Mac has said that people come up and congratulate him for it, remembering only that he won the 4th set TB, not that he lost the match. What they remember is the rivalry and the drama of the matches.

 

[I.Haychew]

You miss the point. If Rafa can be the greatest on clay, how can someone else be just the greatest? In the same era? I'm not saying that Roger isn't fabulous and amazing. I'm saying there just isn't one GOAT. I don't really believe that things can be quantified that way. And even if you do, I think Rafa has been a governor on that, in their rivalry.

And round and round we go. Too many variables.

 

[Moxie]

And round and round we go. Too many variables.

That being my point.

 

[Federberg]

No they don't. They have to look it up. They don't even remember who won that '80 final. Mac has said that people come up and congratulate him for it, remembering only that he won the 4th set TB, not that he lost the match. What they remember is the rivalry and the drama of the matches.

exactly

 

[I.Haychew]

That being my point.

So, there can never be a GOAT?