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Front242

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Not because of a lack of evidence, instead he paid her to make it go away.
Well I was the first here to say it was all about money I believe. Since she took the cash I was right. She's a gold digging bitch. It doesn't state anywhere that his team were behind the plan to pay her to go away. In fact, it seems the other way round and there's no evidence of guilt on his side.

 

Nadalfan2013

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Well I was the first here to say it was all about money I believe. Since she took the cash I was right. She's a gold digging bitch. It doesn't state anywhere that his team were behind the plan to pay her to go away. In fact, it seems the other way round and there's no evidence of guilt on his side.


We already saw the real Zverev and how when he gets angry he can get lose his temper and become violent towards a person... Stop defending him.

GIF-Zverev-smashes-racket.gif
 

Front242

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We already saw the real Zverev and how when he gets angry he can get lose his temper and become violent towards a person... Stop defending him.

GIF-Zverev-smashes-racket.gif
That umpire was beyond useless. He hit the chair, not the umpire.
 

Federberg

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We already saw the real Zverev and how when he gets angry he can get lose his temper and become violent towards a person... Stop defending him.

GIF-Zverev-smashes-racket.gif
I don't know if Zverev is violent towards women or not. There have been too many cases in recent history for me to make the mistake of being lazy with assumptions again. I've had to retreat from knee jerk credulity one too many times. What I will say is that. I think there's a big difference between aggression towards a man and being violent towards your girlfriend/wife. Let's not try make connections that don't exist
 
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kskate2

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I don't know if Zverev is violent towards women or not. There have been too many cases in recent history for me to make the mistake of being lazy with assumptions again. I've had to retreat from knee jerk credulity one too many times. What I will say is that. I think there's a big difference between aggression towards a man and being violent towards your girlfriend/wife. Let's not try make connections that don't exist
Agreed. I'll say this last thing, if he believed it to be all about the $$ and he hadn't done anything wrong, why settle and pay? Go ahead and have your day in court.
 

Sundaymorningguy

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Agreed. I'll say this last thing, if he believed it to be all about the $$ and he hadn't done anything wrong, why settle and pay? Go ahead and have your day in court.
This, if they do not have any evidence and you have been telling everyone you are innocent, then you shouldn’t be settling. I don’t know what happened, but I believe the truth is definitely somewhere in the middle.
 
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Moxie

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Well I was the first here to say it was all about money I believe. Since she took the cash I was right. She's a gold digging bitch. It doesn't state anywhere that his team were behind the plan to pay her to go away. In fact, it seems the other way round and there's no evidence of guilt on his side.

You and @kskate2 are both wrong...he didn't "pay her off." Did you even read the article that you posted? This is not easy to understand, but the government dropped the case, says there is nothing to say he's guilty, but they ordered him to pay 200K Euros, 150K of which goes to the state, and 50K to various charities. None of it went to the ex-girlfriend. She dropped her charges in a closed door testimony session...in an article I read the other day it said that she cited privacy concerns, and concern for the child. If she got money to do that, it was under the table, and you're never going to know about it.
 

Federberg

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Agreed. I'll say this last thing, if he believed it to be all about the $$ and he hadn't done anything wrong, why settle and pay? Go ahead and have your day in court.
I take your point, and personally I would want to clear my name, but I'm also mindful from recent cases that even if a defendant is successful in clearing their name the taint still remains. You only have to look online at the large number of Amber Heard supporters who continue to talk their talk. It's not unreasonable for some people to reduce the decision making process into a financial one. If they do that, settling and moving on with life is perfectly understandable
 

Moxie

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I take your point, and personally I would want to clear my name, but I'm also mindful from recent cases that even if a defendant is successful in clearing their name the taint still remains. You only have to look online at the large number of Amber Heard supporters who continue to talk their talk. It's not unreasonable for some people to reduce the decision making process into a financial one. If they do that, settling and moving on with life is perfectly understandable
In fairness to Zverev, I think that's what he did. When she brought the charges, he was ordered last winter to pay something over 400K euros. So, he contested it, which brings the consequence of a trial, which was 10 days ago. The plaintiff was interviewed by the judge and decided to drop the charge, or settle for what the court said. I don't know that he had an option to continue with the trial, if she withdrew. What I don't understand, because I know nothing about German law, and I doubt anyone here does, why he pays a fine if the court says there is no guilty verdict to be entered against him. He will have no criminal record, is what I read. In the US, if the state drops the case, you walk away. If you're guilty, you can be ordered to pay fines and court costs, but this hybrid is weird to me.

As to your comment above, about violence against men not translating to violence against women, did you make that up? Because it's not supported that I can find, and it doesn't really make logical sense. IMO, if you have tenuous control over violent impulses in one situation, you're more likely to be the same in another. That video above is after a friggin' doubles match in Mexico, which presumably a top 5-10 player plays for practice and pocket change. The incident got him thrown out of the tournament, including singles. I've never judged his private life here, because what do I know? But I know what I've seen from him on the tennis court, and that I can judge him on.
 
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Moxie

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That umpire was beyond useless. He hit the chair, not the umpire.
OMG, as if that's OK? Do you find that behavior acceptable? Plus, I don't think the umpire is the guy that throws him out of the tournament. It's the tournament director.
 

Federberg

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In fairness to Zverev, I think that's what he did. When she brought the charges, he was ordered last winter to pay something over 400K euros. So, he contested it, which brings the consequence of a trial, which was 10 days ago. The plaintiff was interviewed by the judge and decided to drop the charge, or settle for what the court said. I don't know that he had an option to continue with the trial, if she withdrew. What I don't understand, because I know nothing about German law, and I doubt anyone here does, why he pays a fine if the court says there is no guilty verdict to be entered against him. He will have no criminal record, is what I read. In the US, if the state drops the case, you walk away. If you're guilty, you can be ordered to pay fines and court costs, but this hybrid is weird to me.

As to your comment above, about violence against men not translating to violence against women, did you make that up? Because it's not supported that I can find, and it doesn't really make logical sense. IMO, if you have tenuous control over violent impulses in one situation, you're more likely to be the same in another. That video above is after a friggin' doubles match in Mexico, which presumably a top 5-10 player plays for practice and pocket change. The incident got him thrown out of the tournament, including singles. I've never judged his private life here, because what do I know? But I know what I've seen from him on the tennis court, and that I can judge him on.
re the first paragraph.. that's my understanding as well. There's a lot of nonsense on twitter implying he settled but that's not what this is as you've described it.

As for the 2nd paragraph, I've met a few men in real life who've been abusive towards women. Oddly, and this apparently is not unusual, seem to lose the aggression gene when faced with someone capable of responding in kind. A psychiatrist friend of mine once implied to me that a lot of men with those tendencies are like that - dominating who they can because of their inadequacies. Perhaps it doesn't apply as a rule, but it's certainly common enough to contradict the linkage between general violence and abuse of women. Heck the most aggressive fellas (in a male environment) I've known would be the first to go ape shit if they heard of a man being inappropriate with a woman
 
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kskate2

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In fairness to Zverev, I think that's what he did. When she brought the charges, he was ordered last winter to pay something over 400K euros. So, he contested it, which brings the consequence of a trial, which was 10 days ago. The plaintiff was interviewed by the judge and decided to drop the charge, or settle for what the court said. I don't know that he had an option to continue with the trial, if she withdrew. What I don't understand, because I know nothing about German law, and I doubt anyone here does, why he pays a fine if the court says there is no guilty verdict to be entered against him. He will have no criminal record, is what I read. In the US, if the state drops the case, you walk away. If you're guilty, you can be ordered to pay fines and court costs, but this hybrid is weird to me.

As to your comment above, about violence against men not translating to violence against women, did you make that up? Because it's not supported that I can find, and it doesn't really make logical sense. IMO, if you have tenuous control over violent impulses in one situation, you're more likely to be the same in another. That video above is after a friggin' doubles match in Mexico, which presumably a top 5-10 player plays for practice and pocket change. The incident got him thrown out of the tournament, including singles. I've never judged his private life here, because what do I know? But I know what I've seen from him on the tennis court, and that I can judge him on.
Mox, Thanks for unpacking that.
 
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Moxie

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re the first paragraph.. that's my understanding as well. There's a lot of nonsense on twitter implying he settled but that's not what this is as you've described it.

As for the 2nd paragraph, I've met a few men in real life who've been abusive towards women. Oddly, and this apparently is not unusual, seem to lose the aggression gene when faced with someone capable of responding in kind. A psychiatrist friend of mine once implied to me that a lot of men with those tendencies are like that - dominating who they can because of their inadequacies. Perhaps it doesn't apply as a rule, but it's certainly common enough to contradict the linkage between general violence and abuse of women. Heck the most aggressive fellas (in a male environment) I've known would be the first to go ape shit if they heard of a man being inappropriate with a woman
I understand the phenomenon of cowardly men beating up on women, because they can, because they need to feel powerful, where they feel powerless over other men. But I don't think the reverse is true. If they feel they have enough power to be aggressive towards men, what's to stop them behaving likewise to women? Look, I don't think most men are violent towards either men or women. And some men may peacock around with other men, and be very protective of behavior towards women. But we're talking about a lack of impulse control where aggression is concerned, leading to violent behavior, which does translate to domestic violence and sexual violence. There is a correlation.


The important section:

"Finally, there is substantial evidence that perpetrators of one type of physical violence are more likely to perpetrate other types of violence (O'Donnell et al., 2006; Ozer et al., 2004; Swahn et al., 2008). When considering the main risk factors for physical violence perpetration, we see that most risk factors are associated with more than one type of violence and those factors are typically more prevalent among males (Foshee et al., 2015; Wilkins, 2014)."

As I said above, it's not for me to judge Zverev and his behavior in his private life. Though, being accused more than once of domestic partner violence is does raise questions. As you say, though, the accusation leaves a stain, so it seems wise to keep one's opinions to one's self. It bothers me, though, when @Front242 dismisses them as "gold diggers," which he did a couple of weeks ago. There is no evidence to suggest that either woman was looking for "hush money," or that they received any. For myself, I judge him by his on-court behavior. In the incident in Mexico, they were right to throw him out of the tournament. I thought what he did was wholly inappropriate, poor sportsmanship, and abusive. I can also judge him on bratty behavior on court, and in terms of his game, which I'm not a fan of.
 

Federberg

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I understand the phenomenon of cowardly men beating up on women, because they can, because they need to feel powerful, where they feel powerless over other men. But I don't think the reverse is true. If they feel they have enough power to be aggressive towards men, what's to stop them behaving likewise to women? Look, I don't think most men are violent towards either men or women. And some men may peacock around with other men, and be very protective of behavior towards women. But we're talking about a lack of impulse control where aggression is concerned, leading to violent behavior, which does translate to domestic violence and sexual violence. There is a correlation.


The important section:

"Finally, there is substantial evidence that perpetrators of one type of physical violence are more likely to perpetrate other types of violence (O'Donnell et al., 2006; Ozer et al., 2004; Swahn et al., 2008). When considering the main risk factors for physical violence perpetration, we see that most risk factors are associated with more than one type of violence and those factors are typically more prevalent among males (Foshee et al., 2015; Wilkins, 2014)."

As I said above, it's not for me to judge Zverev and his behavior in his private life. Though, being accused more than once of domestic partner violence is does raise questions. As you say, though, the accusation leaves a stain, so it seems wise to keep one's opinions to one's self. It bothers me, though, when @Front242 dismisses them as "gold diggers," which he did a couple of weeks ago. There is no evidence to suggest that either woman was looking for "hush money," or that they received any. For myself, I judge him by his on-court behavior. In the incident in Mexico, they were right to throw him out of the tournament. I thought what he did was wholly inappropriate, poor sportsmanship, and abusive. I can also judge him on bratty behavior on court, and in terms of his game, which I'm not a fan of.
lol! I love the fact you went to the library over this :D Even if I take this research at face value, I still don't feel the need to take the intuitive leap that his behaviour in Mexico validates any domestic violence accusations against him. That seems as wrong headed as impugning his accusers. We simply don't know! That was my issue, and that's why I made my comment :) By the way, blame the likes of Amber Heard for many folks instantly distrusting accusations this days. The cats out of the bag. Sometimes accusations can be malicious, and worse still we've now seen cases where multiple accusations from different sources have been found to be false and malicious. I refer you to the case of Benjamin Mendy a football player formerly in the EPL. In my view, the right thing to do in this era, funnily enough is also the historically responsible thing, believe in due process and innocence until guilt is proven. That's all we can do, and keep it moving
 
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MargaretMcAleer

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Some grass news,

There were rumors regarding Carlos Alcaraz not defending his Queen ATP tournament, according to radio Marca, today, Alcaraz still plans to play Queens.
 
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Moxie

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lol! I love the fact you went to the library over this :D Even if I take this research at face value, I still don't feel the need to take the intuitive leap that his behaviour in Mexico validates any domestic violence accusations against him. That seems as wrong headed as impugning his accusers. We simply don't know! That was my issue, and that's why I made my comment :) By the way, blame the likes of Amber Heard for many folks instantly distrusting accusations this days. The cats out of the bag. Sometimes accusations can be malicious, and worse still we've now seen cases where multiple accusations from different sources have been found to be false and malicious. I refer you to the case of Benjamin Mendy a football player formerly in the EPL. In my view, the right thing to do in this era, funnily enough is also the historically responsible thing, believe in due process and innocence until guilt is proven. That's all we can do, and keep it moving
Make fun if you like. I basically said the same thing you're saying, as in I'm not judging his private life, at least not publicly. I was disputing your claim that one doesn't translate to the other. It does.

I know the Amber Heard thing bothers you, because you bring it up, rather often. I didn't follow it. I don't care.

These things are hard to prove and they're hard to disprove, because generally there are no witnesses. So we agree...best to judge what we can see with our own eyes, i.e., how they behave in the arena that we view these people. If they behave like jerks on, say, a tennis court, then decide for yourself if you can overlook it or not.
 

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Make fun if you like. I basically said the same thing you're saying, as in I'm not judging his private life, at least not publicly. I was disputing your claim that one doesn't translate to the other. It does.

I know the Amber Heard thing bothers you, because you bring it up, rather often. I didn't follow it. I don't care.

These things are hard to prove and they're hard to disprove, because generally there are no witnesses. So we agree...best to judge what we can see with our own eyes, i.e., how they behave in the arena that we view these people. If they behave like jerks on, say, a tennis court, then decide for yourself if you can overlook it or not.
wow! I think you're so prepared for hostility, you no longer recognise when no hostility is intended! I was simply explaining the reason for my initial response. I believe in due process. There was a time when I would rather naively have thought... why would anyone make such an accusation. I can no longer do that. Yes I bring up the Amber Heard case because it profoundly impacted how I view accusations, how people react to them and how the media disseminates information about them. To this day articles still occasionally appear in newspapers like the NYT, WP, Guardian and Independent which start off from the premise that Amber Heard is an abuse victim. From people who claim to have extensive exposure to the court case. I watched the case. I've listened to hours of recordings (they recorded their interactions as recommended by their counsellor). There is simply no way... NONE! That Amber Heard was a victim. In fact what becomes clear from the interactions, and the testimony in court, as well as pre- trial interviews, is that Depp was the victim. She even mocks him, telling him that no one would believe him. She characterises his refusal to even argue with her, his running away... as emotional violence. Why do I bring this up? Because either the journalists were ignorant, wilfully ignorant or outright liars pushing an agenda. You can't even trust the media on this stuff anymore. So I'll believe the decision of a jury. Not gossip on the inter web, or supposed journalists. I'm done!

As for your disputation. That's fine. I really don't mind if you disagree with me. It's not that deep :). The intuitive leap that because a person freaks out on court they might assault their spouse is in my opinion daft thinking (I'm not calling you daft so don't go there!). One might as well hypothesise that someone accused of murder is guilty because they were seen freaking in public. I need more evidence. Sorry! :)
 
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Moxie

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wow! I think you're so prepared for hostility, you no longer recognise when no hostility is intended! I was simply explaining the reason for my initial response. I believe in due process. There was a time when I would rather naively have thought... why would anyone make such an accusation. I can no longer do that. Yes I bring up the Amber Heard case because it profoundly impacted how I view accusations, how people react to them and how the media disseminates information about them. To this day articles still occasionally appear in newspapers like the NYT, WP, Guardian and Independent which start off from the premise that Amber Heard is an abuse victim. From people who claim to have extensive exposure to the court case. I watched the case. I've listened to hours of recordings (they recorded their interactions as recommended by their counsellor). There is simply no way... NONE! That Amber Heard was a victim. In fact what becomes clear from the interactions, and the testimony in court, as well as pre- trial interviews, is that Depp was the victim. She even mocks him, telling him that no one would believe him. She characterises his refusal to even argue with her, his running away... as emotional violence. Why do I bring this up? Because either the journalists were ignorant, wilfully ignorant or outright liars pushing an agenda. You can't even trust the media on this stuff anymore. So I'll believe the decision of a jury. Not gossip on the inter web, or supposed journalists. I'm done!

As for your disputation. That's fine. I really don't mind if you disagree with me. It's not that deep :). The intuitive leap that because a person freaks out on court they might assault their spouse is in my opinion daft thinking (I'm not calling you daft so don't go there!). One might as well hypothesise that someone accused of murder is guilty because they were seen freaking in public. I need more evidence. Sorry! :)
I didn't take anything you've said as hostile, nor did I intend my response as hostile, in any way. I said we agree. I've said I judge Zverev from what I see of him when he plays tennis. That's what I mean when I say people can judge for themselves, i.e., if they can still like him when he can be bratty, or worse, on court. I don't mean they can judge for themselves whether or not he beats up on women based on his behavior on court. If that came off that way, then that's why I'm clarifying.
 
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Moxie

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@Federberg: I wanted to say one more thing about these accusations, and possible motivations. You said you used to wonder, "Why would anyone make something like that up?" Front likes the gold digger answer, but I find that overly-simple, or a bit 1950's, esp. given the lack of any evidence that they got paid off, or even asked for money. (Though how would we really know?) Another possibility, which I don't think has come up around here, is vindictiveness. It is certain that the baby-mama's accusation was from well-after they were split. I don't really know the timeline of the other, nor who broke up with whom. But it's very possible that the women were both dumped. And, while this is a bit sexist on my part, in my many years on this planet, I would say that women can be the more vengeful after a breakup. (Yes, that's anecdotal. But I have lots of male friends, and I have a brother who went through a divorce with a child. It can get real ugly, esp. with children involved. And men can get the short end of the stick, as the mother tends to get preference, and holds the cards.) And there is something to the old adage of "Hell hath no fury...etc." Sascha isn't just rich, he's famous. Want revenge? Smear him publicly. One woman did it, and another woman decides to pile on. It could happen that way. I mean, if you want to be fair and say, "Just because there's smoke doesn't mean there's fire." Just because I don't find his public persona particularly warm and fuzzy, it doesn't mean he beats up on his girlfriends.

I buy revenge over gold digging, when I look for a way to think it might be invented. Which I have. I just don't think I ever mentioned this angle. As I said, I've tried to stay away from it.
 
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