2023 ATP General News

[MargaretMcAleer]

To say that claycourt line judging must continue solely for someone to become an umpire begs the issue; the majority of tournaments are played on HC these days, where automated line judging has already been implemented, and as I understand it, it has already been implemented on grass tournaments too.

So clearly, another way to train future umpires has to happen.

I'm not always thrilled when humans are replaced by machinery/technology; unfortunately this has been going on since the start of the industrial revolution. See many elevator attendants these days?

It has been already widely discussed that human line calling on red clay courts is far from flawless or automatically reliable. Even deciding on which is the specific mark, if the ball skidded somewhat, or if the chair deigns to even get out of the chair if he/she thinks it's clearly proven when the understandably biased player looking at the mark screams "come see how you are wrong!!", or if a crazy bounce derives from more than hitting a line, etc, etc. are what devolves into some of arguments that bog down a match on the terre bateurre.

So IMO the player will probably reconcile themselves to a automatic line calling on claycourts simply because there will be a consistent standard applied for every point. They used it in Madrid Masters already, no? Again, nobody claims that any system implemented will be 100 % reliable or accurate.I just said how are lines people now going to get experience if the ELO comes full time? to become an umpire? I think I have a valid point?

There will be always Human error on any system BTW. I said how are lines poeple going to get the experience as a umpire, when ELO comes in? I know the system and how it works to become an umpire, lines people are a stepping stone
Clay is not your usual surface compared to the other surfaces there are too many variables, on different clay courts in Europe, you cannot compare Madrid, to MC or Rome or RG for starters? Madird is a HC not a real clay court so the bounce and marks will be different compared to Rome or MC, and RG where the bounce is different? that is what I mean 'variables on clay'?
When I get the chance I will again post my interview with the umpire who comes from Europe and has had enough experience on clay .Maybe then you can understand the reasons why.if not well that is your opinion not mine and others,

 

[Jelenafan]

There will be always Human error on any system BTW. I said how are lines poeple going to get the experience as a umpire, when ELO comes in? I know the system and how it works to become an umpire, lines people are a stepping stone
Clay is not your usual surface compared to the other surfaces there are too many variables, on different clay courts in Europe, you cannot compare Madrid, to MC or Rome or RG for starters? Madird is a HC not a real clay court so the bounce and marks will be different compared to Rome or MC, and RG where the bounce is different? that is what I mean 'variables on clay'?
When I get the chance I will again post my interview with the umpire who comes from Europe and has had enough experience on clay .Maybe then you can understand the reasons why.if not well that is your opinion not mine and others,

We are BOTH posting our opinions, I've never stated otherwise. If you speak for others, might be best to name them specifically, otherwise I welcome all posters to pipe in and give their individual opinions on different subjects. Highly doubt there is universal consensus on such a sensitive topic. If someone agrees with you fine, if you find an article an article that espouses your stance, that's OK too, we are all giving our opinions.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

We are BOTH posting our opinions, I've never stated otherwise. If you speak for others, might be best to name them specifically, otherwise I welcome all posters to pipe in and give their individual opinions on different subjects. Highly doubt there is universal consensus on such a sensitive topic. If someone agrees with you fine, if you find an article an article that espouses your stance, that's OK too, we are all giving our opinions.

Just ignore my posts for now on I over responding to you, I have put you on Ignore for a purpose a few years ago here, trying to 'be little my posts at TF, Kskate agrees with me. Go and find another poster to respond to on this subject ! Enough Is Enough from you.Thanks!~!

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

For other posters I am still trying to find my interview with the umpire regarding why there should not be ELO on clay surfaces
I have to take a phone call from work

 

[Moxie]

That is why I think it's probably the best for the players to have one standard on all surfaces, have a hawk eye and remove the possibility of players arguing with umpires. Every year on clay season is the same, sometimes players argue if the umpire is checking a correct mark.

I think it is time for electric line-calling on all surfaces, but, at the very least, why don't they sweep the lines on clay at the change of ends?

 

[Moxie]

To say that claycourt line judging must continue solely for someone to become an umpire begs the issue; the majority of tournaments are played on HC these days, where automated line judging has already been implemented, and as I understand it, it has already been implemented on grass tournaments too.

So clearly, another way to train future umpires has to happen.

I'm not always thrilled when humans are replaced by machinery/technology; unfortunately this has been going on since the start of the industrial revolution. See many elevator attendants these days?

It has been already widely discussed that human line calling on red clay courts is far from flawless or automatically reliable. Even deciding on which is the specific mark, if the ball skidded somewhat, or if the chair deigns to even get out of the chair if he/she thinks it's clearly proven when the understandably biased player looking at the mark screams "come see how you are wrong!!", or if a crazy bounce derives from more than hitting a line, etc, etc. are what devolves into some of arguments that bog down a match on the terre bateurre.

So IMO the player will probably reconcile themselves to a automatic line calling on claycourts simply because there will be a consistent standard applied for every point. They used it in Madrid Masters already, no? Again, nobody claims that any system implemented will be 100 % reliable or accurate.

Love the point about elevator attendants! When we got hawkeye, it made everyone calm about decisions, even though it had a margin for error. Everyone accepted it. It's time for clay to join it, too. Surely the technology is close enough, now.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Back from lunch I am still trying to find the interview I did with the Umpire and his reasons for not liking Electronic Line Calling On Clay, which I totally agree with !
I have a new computer and I hope it wasnt wiped off by accident when I was transferring data!

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Finally I found the interview I did with Bjorn Wettstein, I did this interview for an American website, www.tennisnow.com
I will just post the question I asked him regarding using Hawk Eye on clay,

Q, Do you think Hawk Eye could be used for clay tournaments? or are you of the opinion that the ball leaves a mark on clay, umpires are used to checking the marks when needed?

Bjorn Wettstein,
That is probably the best question of all questions.The reason we do not use Hawk Eye on clay is probably is because of the ball mark. You could have a situation where Hawk Eye is called, Hawk Eye says the ball was out, you go down to look at the ball mark and it is clearly in.What do you do then? do you turn Hawk Eye off? It is tricky everything in life, even Hawk Eye has a margin of error. As our eyes do. If you used Hawk Eye on clay that would mean we would not be allowed to make any ball mark inspections, even though you can see the the ball was out.

 

[don_fabio]

I think it is time for electric line-calling on all surfaces, but, at the very least, why don't they sweep the lines on clay at the change of ends?

They were doing it in Banja Luka, they sweeped the lines at the change of ends plus they also sweeped the court more often, not just at the end of set.

 

[lomaha]

Finally I found the interview I did with Bjorn Wettstein, I did this interview for an American website, www.tennisnow.com
I will just post the question I asked him regarding using Hawk Eye on clay,

Q, Do you think Hawk Eye could be used for clay tournaments? or are you of the opinion that the ball leaves a mark on clay, umpires are used to checking the marks when needed?

Bjorn Wettstein,
That is probably the best question of all questions.The reason we do not use Hawk Eye on clay is probably is because of the ball mark. You could have a situation where Hawk Eye is called, Hawk Eye says the ball was out, you go down to look at the ball mark and it is clearly in.What do you do then? do you turn Hawk Eye off? It is tricky everything in life, even Hawk Eye has a margin of error. As our eyes do. If you used Hawk Eye on clay that would mean we would not be allowed to make any ball mark inspections, even though you can see the the ball was out.

But umpires reads the marks differently? And the marks kan be hard to read if it's very close to the line and it's wet. I would prefer hawk-eye any day. Yes there's a margin for errors but its equal for all players. And it's undebatable (unless you're Alejandro Davidovich Fokina offcourse.)

 

[the AntiPusher]

That is why I think it's probably the best for the players to have one standard on all surfaces, have a hawk eye and remove the possibility of players arguing with umpires. Every year on clay season is the same, sometimes players argue if the umpire is checking a correct mark.

All the umpire had to do was get his lazy AZZ out of the chair. Ymer would have eventually accepted the call without further hindrance or incident for that ONE call ONLY.

 

[don_fabio]

All the umpire had to do was get his lazy AZZ out of the chair. Ymer would have eventually accepted the call without further hindrance or incident for that ONE call ONLY.

Agree, that's why I called him a lazy bastard.

 

[tented]

Finally I found the interview I did with Bjorn Wettstein, I did this interview for an American website, www.tennisnow.com
I will just post the question I asked him regarding using Hawk Eye on clay,

Q, Do you think Hawk Eye could be used for clay tournaments? or are you of the opinion that the ball leaves a mark on clay, umpires are used to checking the marks when needed?

Bjorn Wettstein,
That is probably the best question of all questions.The reason we do not use Hawk Eye on clay is probably is because of the ball mark. You could have a situation where Hawk Eye is called, Hawk Eye says the ball was out, you go down to look at the ball mark and it is clearly in.What do you do then? do you turn Hawk Eye off? It is tricky everything in life, even Hawk Eye has a margin of error. As our eyes do. If you used Hawk Eye on clay that would mean we would not be allowed to make any ball mark inspections, even though you can see the the ball was out.

I remember when you did this interview. It was 8-10 years ago, I believe. The technology has improved greatly since then. It’s possible if you were to interview him again, you would discover he has since changed his mind.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Miss Margaret what happened to FAA ..why did Arthur FILs get a walkover

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Miss Margaret what happened to FAA ..why did Arthur FILs get a walkover

Quckly he has a shoulder problem for a couple of days and hopes to be okay for RG

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I remember when you did this interview. It was 8-10 years ago, I believe. The technology has improved greatly since then. It’s possible if you were to interview him again, you would discover he has since changed his mind.

I understand the technology has improved since I did the interview, we are just speculating if he has/or would change his mind
I still see his point of view, using Hawk Eye the umpire will not be able to see if the ball mark was out, to me that will cause problems, as I tried to point out to posters, all clay courts are different, there is soo many varibles on clay to start with. I still am against Hawke Eye on clay.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Oh Jarry hands Ruud his first ever loss on Swiss clay, in Geneva tournament in the QFs defeating the top seed 36 76 75
Personally speaking I am not a fan of a top player playing a tournament a week before Roland Garros starts

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Geneva Tournament SF,
G. Dimitrov ( 4 WC) vs T.Fritz (2)
A. Zverev (3 WC) vs N. Jarry

Lyon Tournament SF,
F. Cerundolo (4) vs C. Norrie (2)
A. Fils (WC) vs B. Nakashima (8)

 

[kskate2]

I think it is time for electric line-calling on all surfaces, but, at the very least, why don't they sweep the lines on clay at the change of ends?

A good idea, but you could still have a questionable mark in between those changeovers. Best might be to rub out the mark after each challenge.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Geneva Tournament SF,
G. Dimitrov ( 4 WC) vs T.Fritz (2)
A. Zverev (3 WC) vs N. Jarry

Lyon Tournament SF,
F. Cerundolo (4) vs C. Norrie (2)
A. Fils (WC) vs B. Nakashima (8)

Arthur FILs moves on to the finals . What a great match