2020 Predictions and Speculations

[Jelenafan]

The thing is, we have to recalibrate expectations for the Big 3 after every Slam. Things can change quickly. Roger could discover the fountain of youth and win it, and then we'd be talking a 2nd and even 3rd; or he could be Olderer and we might be expecting a Basel retirement announcement. Rafa could come in looking hobbled and the vultures will be circling at Roland Garros, or he could get that Double Slam and people will be talking 22+. Novak...who knows. He's more of a wildcard than the other two..

I wonder why Novak is considered that by many, he’s won 4 out of the last 6 Majors and he’s “only” 32. If anything I think his chances of winning multiple Majors going forward is the greatest .

Federer to me is more of a Wild Card as far as winning any more Majors than Novak.

 

[El Dude]

I don't know why anyone is taking Ricardo seriously. He is a troll and feeds off attacking people. I don't find him offensive at all anymore, just....inconsequential? And sometimes entertaining. He's kind of like Trump without the nuclear codes.

Anyhow, of course all of those guys are really good players. But as Moxie pointed out, this is all relative. They are "bozos" relative to the elite in that they have, time and time again, fallen short. And they are bozos relative to past second tier players, who found a way to pick off stray Slams from the elite. I mean, this fact is simply mind-boggling:

After Marat Safin won the 2005 Australian Open, only three non-Big Four players have won even a single Grand Slam: del Potro, Wawrinka, and Cilic. Only three in almost 14 years! That's madness. Now of course that is mostly because the Bigger Three have been so damn good, but I don't think we can entirely let the others off the hook. Only Andy Murray and Stan Wawrinka have made significant marks on the tour, with Cilic and del Potro entering the ranks of one-Slam wonders.

Now what is particularly baffling, is that the last three years worth of Slam titles have been claimed only by the Big Three, at a time when they should be in decline and the Lost Gen should be in their prime. Again, this speaks mostly to the greatness of the Holy Trinity, but also to the inability of an entire generation--and others--to break through and win a big one.

I wonder why Novak is considered that by many, he’s won 4 out of the last 6 Majors and he’s “only” 32. If anything I think his chances of winning multiple Majors going forward is the greatest .

Federer to me is more of a Wild Card as far as winning any more Majors than Novak.

I only mean that Novak is a wildcard in that his range of possible outcomes is greater.

 

[brokenshoelace]

That IS bold. You join @mrzz, who thinks all of the big 3 are done. While Roger seems like a long-shot, to me, to win another Major, I wouldn't really even count him out. Rafa and Novak, at 33 and 32...I find it hard to believe they don't each have a couple left in them. I have noted a significant drop-off in optimism about Novak, though, after the last several months. He hasn't sprung back to the same kind of dominance of the time before his "walkabout." Still, as I said before, I find it a little hard to imagine that they'll all 3 drop off the cliff at the same time.

The thing about "never" winning a major again, is that, as obvious as it sounds, never is a long time. It's one thing to say that about Roger, as his "never" isn't as long as for the other two, but with Novak, who has been relatively healthy his entire career bar that one injury in 2018 (or was it 2017? Regardless...) even with a relative lack of drive now, it's a lot to assume that he's just never going to feel it again. OK, say he lacks some fire next year, are we really assuming that a 32 year old who should be on tour for another 5 years easily, is never going to recapture that? He's just going to be satisfied with losing?

So yeah, I'm with you, I can't imagine Novak not winning another major, and I think I'd be surprised if he doesn't win multiple ones.

 

[mrzz]

never is a long time

That is a good point. But, with some lesser players, we are quick to say that they will "never" win a major. Well, yes, neither one of the big three is a lesser player. But this is the crux of my argument/opinion: I think that, each one of them, level wise, are not that special anymore, and the main factor that keeps them in the winning circle is the mental/psychological one. Level wise, I (really) think they are barely being able to keep up with the rest, and with one more step downwards the situation will be completely irreversible. So that's why I say "never" that "easily".

 

[Jelenafan]

Athletes in other sports are lasting and playing longer than ever before due to better conditioning, nutrition and the $$$$$$ motivation.

Methuselah at 35 in 2017 arguably played in spots as well as he had in many years. Agree that consistently they can’t keep up the tournament grind as easier as they used to, but if mentally they make up for their physical half step then it makes sense they have better prep for the Majors than the younger and stronger NextGen.

It was the Sampras era it seems that established players were through by age 28-29 being competitive in Majors, don’t think that same dynamics applies anymore.

Wawrinka is 34 and I even see him eking out another Major under the right circumstances.

 

[Andy22]

nadal has been the best returner this season with 170.8 on atp tour.com so clearly he's the best returner in the world right now Djokovic was great as well ending second with 168.9, Federer was trash as always placing [13th ] at 148.4 LOL, anyway cant wait for 2020 season to start its going to be epic for both nadal-djokovic.

 

[don_fabio]

Athletes in other sports are lasting and playing longer than ever before due to better conditioning, nutrition and the $$$$$$ motivation.

Methuselah at 35 in 2017 arguably played in spots as well as he had in many years. Agree that consistently they can’t keep up the tournament grind as easier as they used to, but if mentally they make up for their physical half step then it makes sense they have better prep for the Majors than the younger and stronger NextGen.

It was the Sampras era it seems that established players were through by age 28-29 being competitive in Majors, don’t think that same dynamics applies anymore.

Wawrinka is 34 and I even see him eking out another Major under the right circumstances.

Fed Nadal final set in AO17 showed us what Fed was capable of at the age of 35. He played probably the best tennis of his life coming back from down 3:1 in that final set against his biggest rival and when all odds were against him at that moment.

So other 2 have all reasons to be motivated and win several slams more. And with regards to Novak, his season was still a huge success with 2 slams in a pocket. He should have some regrets for that RG loss, but he compensated with Wimbledon. You can't win it all. In some way is better that he ended the season as #2. Perhaps he comes hungry early in the next and leaves everything on the court in that AO.

 

[Ricardo]

I don't know why anyone is taking Ricardo seriously. He is a troll and feeds off attacking people. I don't find him offensive at all anymore, just....inconsequential? And sometimes entertaining. He's kind of like Trump without the nuclear codes.

Anyhow, of course all of those guys are really good players. But as Moxie pointed out, this is all relative. They are "bozos" relative to the elite in that they have, time and time again, fallen short. And they are bozos relative to past second tier players, who found a way to pick off stray Slams from the elite. I mean, this fact is simply mind-boggling:

After Marat Safin won the 2005 Australian Open, only three non-Big Four players have won even a single Grand Slam: del Potro, Wawrinka, and Cilic. Only three in almost 14 years! That's madness. Now of course that is mostly because the Bigger Three have been so damn good, but I don't think we can entirely let the others off the hook. Only Andy Murray and Stan Wawrinka have made significant marks on the tour, with Cilic and del Potro entering the ranks of one-Slam wonders.

Now what is particularly baffling, is that the last three years worth of Slam titles have been claimed only by the Big Three, at a time when they should be in decline and the Lost Gen should be in their prime. Again, this speaks mostly to the greatness of the Holy Trinity, but also to the inability of an entire generation--and others--to break through and win a big one.



I only mean that Novak is a wildcard in that his range of possible outcomes is greater.

Lets say you want to be taken seriously, then you firstly don't start by dismissing pro players....no excuse, non of that 'relative' to the big 3 will suffice. Even the big 3 themselves don't say that, and they are in fact the only ones qualified if anyone...…….so who the fuk are you to talk like that? you are a nobody in every way, shape or form. I also know for a fact that people who have competed in any reasonable level would have a healthy respect not to talk like that about players who are actually elites, despite that they haven't won anything 'big'.

As it stands, you are the bozo. You haven't done nothing in tennis, and you call tennis elites bozos. Even as far as posting about the sport, you are still just a bozo...….remember you say Pioline is an all time underachiever? now tell us why you deserve to be taken seriously. So you get what you asked for, don't whinge when you get belittled.

 

[Ricardo]

Funny how a poster who thinks nothing of hurling insults suddenly gets a bit delicate at some being called "bozos," when "clown" gets thrown around all the time around these parts. Injuries felled some of the Lost Gen, like Kei and Milos, but it's not like they were destined to be powerhouses, otherwise. The real bozo is Dimitrov, of that group...and you forgot him!

Always the clueless, you ever notice that I don't hurl anything insulting at pro players......just at the 'clowns' here who mouth off. For anyone with a brain, I'd reserve respect for sport elites than some internet nobodies who have done nothing themselves yet find it ok to diss pro players as bozos.

I can tell you with certainty that real tennis fans would show respect to ATP players as one with basic knowledge would know how hard it is even to make it on tour. Do you know what you have to go through to even get a ranking on ATP? sorry to tell the buffoons here, like Mr El Don't Know Nothing here, who is most likely a fat dude with no prospect of even stepping on to a tennis court hitting decent shots, that typing crap on a couch about players don't deserve respect. As for you, you are easy...….I can always get you into orgasms with effortless posts and you grunt like crazy, who is delicate again?

Just too much rubbish here, big 3 or they are nothing....since when do self-respecting fans talk like that? show me what you got before you go calling real players bozos. Besides those bozos would smash WTA players without losing many points, so what do you make of them WTA stars?

 

[Ricardo]

I ran down El Dudes' original list, and he did not include Dimitrov. But he is right, Dimitrov is not a Bozo. He is an "entertainer".


Now, joking aside I am aware that El Dude knows quite well that he is speaking in relative terms, but even if I did not miss the chance to make a joke, I cannot help but connect with Ricardo's post. All those guys play marvelously well and I envy them to my gut. I know they are professionals, but still. Tennis is a fantastic sport, I really wanted to be better at it: every now and then, when I connect a beautiful shot I feel extremely proud, and those guys do that routinely. I do feel that we are being borderline idiotic when we dismiss even ATP 500's. Come on, I even do watch Challenger matches sometimes, and those guys are damn good. This elite or nothing approach only separates us from the real sport. Of course the big boys are better as a package, but there is a lot of good tennis elsewhere. You get the backhand of a Lajovic, the forehand a Santiago Giraldo (check on youtube and be amazed), the touch of a Cuevas... that's pretty good tennis that at some point nobody else can do better. Tennis is all that. The greatness of the big three is precisely that they can stay on top of all those guys, all the time. But if you discredit the field, you are discrediting the big three by extension. And they can be beaten, they are indeed beaten, because some times someone else is simply better. Why? Because the sport itself is bigger than the big three. The sport is the big one. So, yeah, they are not Bozos. It is good that someone reminds us of that once in a while.

so far you get no likes for your post, which unfortunately contains some truth the tennis nobodies don't like to see. If the non-big 3s are nothing, then Fedalvic can't be that great since those 'bozos' have actually beaten them or played them tough.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Athletes in other sports are lasting and playing longer than ever before due to better conditioning, nutrition and the $$$$$$ motivation.

Methuselah at 35 in 2017 arguably played in spots as well as he had in many years. Agree that consistently they can’t keep up the tournament grind as easier as they used to, but if mentally they make up for their physical half step then it makes sense they have better prep for the Majors than the younger and stronger NextGen.

It was the Sampras era it seems that established players were through by age 28-29 being competitive in Majors, don’t think that same dynamics applies anymore.

Wawrinka is 34 and I even see him eking out another Major under the right circumstances.

Pete at no time was ever as well conditioned as Roger..I am just being honest

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Pete at no time was ever as well conditioned as Roger..I am just being honest

I think Pete has even puked on court. I surely don't want to see that kind of stuff again.

 

[Ricardo]

Pete at no time was ever as well conditioned as Roger..I am just being honest

Or as good, put simply (except maybe on 90s fast grass). Fed owns him elsewhere.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Or as good, put simply (except maybe on 90s fast grass). Fed owns him elsewhere.

It depends how you look at it... Pete was the best of his era. Meanwhile Federer will most likely end up as 3rd best of his era.

 

[Fiero425]

I think Pete has even puked on court. I surely don't want to see that kind of stuff again.

OTTH I think it was at the USO against Alex Corretja in the QF! It was either a brutally hot day or Sampras had a stomach bug! Puking was almost common; just not the elites so much! Sampras hurled in the 5th set TB, Alex actually holding a match point later, then double faulted to give the match away where Pete completed a run to win the title in '96! :whistle:

 

[Ricardo]

It depends how you look at it... Pete was the best of his era. Meanwhile Federer will most likely end up as 3rd best of his era.

Pete didn't have someone of the calibre in his era, and in any case Djoker is 4 slams away and Rafa still needs 2 more to surpass. Most likely is a prediction only, not a fact.

 

[don_fabio]

OTTH I think it was at the USO against Alex Corretja in the QF! It was either a brutally hot day or Sampras had a stomach bug! Puking was almost common; just not the elites so much! Sampras hurled in the 5th set TB, Alex actually holding a match point later, then double faulted to give the match away where Pete completed a run to win the title in '96! :whistle:

God bless the youtube. This was a classic, Pete could barely stand. Then at matchpoint down he saves it with great volley and then on next point he goes all in with a 2nd serve ace!

I miss the times like this when players would just go for an ace like it's all or nothing. Goran used to hit 2 first serves. I remember watching him and thinking he is going for an ace on a 2nd.

 

[the AntiPusher]

God bless the youtube. This was a classic, Pete could barely stand. Then at matchpoint down he saves it with great volley and then on next point he goes all in with a 2nd serve ace!

I miss the times like this when players would just go for an ace like it's all or nothing. Goran used to hit 2 first serves. I remember watching him and thinking he is going for an ace on a 2nd.

Goran was great, Pete’s serve was and still a gift from God..if my well being dependent on one player to play for me, it would be Rafa.. if it was one point, I want Pete’s first and 2nd serve with his volley

 

[Ricardo]

Goran's serve was a couple notches above Pete's, but Pete backs it up so much better.

 

[Front242]

It depends how you look at it... Pete was the best of his era. Meanwhile Federer will most likely end up as 3rd best of his era.

No idea how you come to this conclusion other than stupidity as only Djokovic and Nadal are of the same era. Federer is way older than both and from a different era.