2020 Predictions and Speculations

[Fiero425]

Here’s the deal, Lendl was not allowed to only play on grass, and Pete was not allowed to play only on clay. Lendl was very proficient on HC and clay and Pete was very proficient on grass and HC because those playing surfaces were also AVAILABLE to them to succeed in. That impacted their formative years of training.

Relatively late in their development did they try to adapt to their worst surfaces, though I do wonder how committed Pistol Pete truly was to red clay.

It’s amazing to me how well Lendl did on grass ( 2 Wimbledon finals, 5 Semifinals, 1 AO final (on grass) 2 Semifinals) when he avoided it like the plague practically until his mid twenties. He WILLED himself to be a top grasscourt player. Lendl beat Boris Becker on Wimbledon grass in consecutive years (1988-89) in the SF, actually had a 3-1 grasscourt head2head versus Becker on the surface. He had a memorable SF loss to eventual winner Stefan Edberg 7-9 in the 5th at the AO one year. Compare that with one Wimbledon Grass Slam winners Pat Cash, Michael Stich, and Richard Kraijeck.

Here’s another “ what if” scenario, an 8 year old Lendl is raised in an era where only grasscourt tennis is played, I’m willing to bet Ivan would have found a way to be a champ.

ETA: I dare say in the Open era Ivan had the best grasscourt record of those who never won a Major on grass.

Without even checking you are quite correct! You never heard of Lendl being upset early at Wimbledon or the Aussie Open when on grass! He got to where he was supposed to be and never really had bad losses in early rounds! It was SF & F all the time and it took a grass court specialist a lot of the time to beat him like Edberg, Becker, & of course Cash in the '87 Wimbledon final! :whistle:

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Without even checking you are quite correct! You never heard of Lendl being upset early at Wimbledon or the Aussie Open when on grass! He got to where he was supposed to be and never really had bad losses in early rounds! It was SF & F all the time and it took a grass court specialist a lot of the time to beat him like Edberg, Becker, & of course Cash in the '87 Wimbledon final! :whistle:

But, Pete routinely last early on the red dirt.

 

[Fiero425]

But, Pete routinely lost early on the red dirt.

True enough! It was one place on clay (@FO) Agassi got from under Pete's thumb in their so called rivalry! He did try, it just wasn't meant to be for Sampras to even make a FO final! I'm still feeling a bit foolish anointing him THE GOAT when he never came close to FO win! :whistle:

 

[Jelenafan]

True enough! It was one place on clay (@FO) Agassi got from under Pete's thumb in their so called rivalry! He did try, it just wasn't meant to be for Sampras to even make a FO final! I'm still feeling a bit foolish anointing him THE GOAT when he never came close to FO win! :whistle:

Don’t feel foolish! It’s all in context:

In fairness to you, many forget that after Rod Laver, nobody else in the Open Era except for Agassi won all four of the Majors as part of their resume. Borg, Mac, Connors, Nastase, Ashe, Newcombe, Lendl, Edberg, Becker, Wilander, etc all had at least “1” Major missing from their bag, not just Pete.

Since Pete “owned “ Agassi ( head2head and in Majors), had 6 consecutive years as #1, ( to Agassi lone year as #1) and had a seemingly unsurpassable 14 Majors, Sampras was a logical choice as the GOAT, or at least in the Open Era. The only real challenge was Laver who ended up with considerably less Majors.

What Nobody foresaw was that as soon as Pete retired a 3 headed “beast” Fedalovic would emerge, that would win at least 16 Majors each, AND win all the Majors. 20, 19 and 16? Who would have thunk?

 

[GameSetAndMath]

It is ok to not to win a particular major, provided you don't suck in it or if there is an alpha dog blocking everyone in that major. Neither was the case for Pete on dirt.

 

[Jelenafan]

It is ok to not to win a particular major, provided you don't suck in it or if there is an alpha dog blocking everyone in that major. Neither was the case for Pete on dirt.

14 Majors and 6 consecutive years ranked # 1. That last stat probably may not be surpassed in our lifetimes.

 

[Fiero425]

It is ok to not to win a particular major, provided you don't suck in it or if there is an alpha dog blocking everyone in that major. Neither was the case for Pete on dirt.

But people & the media can be vicious when it comes to that hole in a resume these days! Lendl never got any love for one!

 

[the AntiPusher]

It is ok to not to win a particular major, provided you don't suck in it or if there is an alpha dog blocking everyone in that major. Neither was the case for Pete on dirt.

Pete didn't trust his feet on the dirt at RG. He had the ability to win on clay as evident with his leading the DC on clay..I think he beat the reigning RG champ and entire Russian team to capture the DC. Pete chose to save himself to maximize his opportunity to win Wimbledon instead of capturing the magnificent double RG and Wimbledon within the same Summer.

 

[Fiero425]

Pete didn't trust his feet on the dirt at RG. He had the ability to win on clay as evident with his leading the DC on clay..I think he beat the reigning RG champ and entire Russian team to capture the DC. Pete chose to save himself to maximize his opportunity to win Wimbledon instead of capturing the magnificent double RG and Wimbledon within the same Summer.

He wasn't totally inept on clay, actually winning Rome over Becker when he was @ the height of his powers! It just wasn't meant to be! :whistle:

 

[don_fabio]

Don’t feel foolish! It’s all in context:

In fairness to you, many forget that after Rod Laver, nobody else in the Open Era except for Agassi won all four of the Majors as part of their resume. Borg, Mac, Connors, Nastase, Ashe, Newcombe, Lendl, Edberg, Becker, Wilander, etc all had at least “1” Major missing from their bag, not just Pete.

Since Pete “owned “ Agassi ( head2head and in Majors), had 6 consecutive years as #1, ( to Agassi lone year as #1) and had a seemingly unsurpassable 14 Majors, Sampras was a logical choice as the GOAT, or at least in the Open Era. The only real challenge was Laver who ended up with considerably less Majors.

What Nobody foresaw was that as soon as Pete retired a 3 headed “beast” Fedalovic would emerge, that would win at least 16 Majors each, AND win all the Majors. 20, 19 and 16? Who would have thunk?

Even Fedalovic having won so many slams, none of them have all 4 slams won twice. All of them miss one even though they all came close several times. Who has a bigger chance here, Nadal for AO or Novak for RG and will it even happen for any of them? This is assuming that Fed has no real chance to win another RG.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Even Fedalovic having won so many slams, none of them have all 4 slams won twice. All of them miss one even though they all came close several times. Who has a bigger chance here, Nadal for AO or Novak for RG and will it even happen for any of them? This is assuming that Fed has no real chance to win another RG.

That is what people used to say for the first one as well. Never say never. We don't know what the future holds. After all he reached SF just last year and lost to Ralph.

 

[Ricardo]

Pete didn't trust his feet on the dirt at RG. He had the ability to win on clay as evident with his leading the DC on clay..I think he beat the reigning RG champ and entire Russian team to capture the DC. Pete chose to save himself to maximize his opportunity to win Wimbledon instead of capturing the magnificent double RG and Wimbledon within the same Summer.

Didn’t trust his feet at RG but no problem on another clay? I know it’s easy to find excuse but at least make it respectable

 

[Ricardo]

Here’s the deal, Lendl was not allowed to only play on grass, and Pete was not allowed to play only on clay. Lendl was very proficient on HC and clay and Pete was very proficient on grass and HC because those playing surfaces were also AVAILABLE to them to succeed in. That impacted their formative years of training.

Relatively late in their development did they try to adapt to their worst surfaces, though I do wonder how committed Pistol Pete truly was to red clay.

It’s amazing to me how well Lendl did on grass ( 2 Wimbledon finals, 5 Semifinals, 1 AO final (on grass) 2 Semifinals) when he avoided it like the plague practically until his mid twenties. He WILLED himself to be a top grasscourt player. Lendl beat Boris Becker on Wimbledon grass in consecutive years (1988-89) in the SF, actually had a 3-1 grasscourt head2head versus Becker on the surface. He had a memorable SF loss to eventual winner Stefan Edberg 7-9 in the 5th at the AO one year. Compare that with one Wimbledon Grass Slam winners Pat Cash, Michael Stich, and Richard Kraijeck.

Here’s another “ what if” scenario, an 8 year old Lendl is raised in an era where only grasscourt tennis is played, I’m willing to bet Ivan would have found a way to be a champ.

ETA: I dare say in the Open era Ivan had the best grasscourt record of those who never won a Major on grass.

Pete didn’t grow up on grass (his best surface), Federer actually grew up playing clay(his worst surface).....it’s not simple like that.

 

[don_fabio]

That is what people used to say for the first one as well. Never say never. We don't know what the future holds. After all he reached SF just last year and lost to Ralph.

I didn't say never. I said the likelihood of him winning RG is very low. SF is nice achievement, but is not close to winning it all. 10 years ago he was a 2nd best clay courter on the tour. Not anymore, but I have to admit it was a little a bit like a fairy tale feeling to watch him play this year in RG.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

I find it very ironic and interesting that everyone here is talking about Federer and Sampras together because the biggest thing they will have in common is that they both will lose the slam record so soon after they got it... B-)

 

[the AntiPusher]

I find it very ironic and interesting that everyone here is talking about Federer and Sampras together because the biggest thing they will have in common is that they both will lose the slam record so soon after they got it... B-)

Come on NF2013...this isn't an attack on your post but We(Rafa's Fans) are BETTER than that.. Sampras was a the last super teenager before Rafa and a phenomenal champion. Trust me it's would be very hard for me to choose between Rafa, Roger or Pete ( Novak is a close 2nd) if I had to have one player play a match with my well being at stake.

Roger .. Let's face it..He is the Perfect tennis player with the PERFECT tennis strokes..If it was for the success of the two handed backhand with the modern technology, all players would model their games after Roger's. Heck..I have Perfectly Roger's BH and volley into my game that I am able to still play at the USTA 5.0 or higher level..

AGAIN , yes we want Rafa to be the all time champion but let's be classy about it..God Bless

 

[mrzz]

We(Rafa's Fans) are BETTER than that..

I appreciate the effort, AP, but...

 

[Jelenafan]

Come on NF2013...this isn't an attack on your post but We(Rafa's Fans) are BETTER than that.. Sampras was a the last super teenager before Rafa and a phenomenal champion. Trust me it's would be very hard for me to choose between Rafa, Roger or Pete ( Novak is a close 2nd) if I had to have one player play a match with my well being at stake.

Roger .. Let's face it..He is the Perfect tennis player with the PERFECT tennis strokes..If it was for the success of the two handed backhand with the modern technology, all players would model their games after Roger's. Heck..I have Perfectly Roger's BH and volley into my game that I am able to still play at the USTA 5.0 or higher level..

AGAIN , yes we want Rafa to be the all time champion but let's be classy about it..God Bless

Ah a fellow 1handed BH, how many of us are there?

 

[the AntiPusher]

Ah a fellow 1handed BH, how many of us are there?

We are an endangered species

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Come on NF2013...this isn't an attack on your post but We(Rafa's Fans) are BETTER than that..
AGAIN , yes we want Rafa to be the all time champion but let's be classy about it..God Bless

I agree... we are better than the Fedovic fans so let’s not sink to their level...