2018 US Open Final: S. Williams vs. N. Osaka

[AnonymousFan]

And Osaka visited the Ellen show -quite funny too

Wow, she really did initially think the crowd was booing at her during the ceremony.

 

[Moxie]

^I'm not sure that's necessary. All I hope for is that we stop this crap of inconsistent umpiring. The extremes we saw in the US Open were unacceptable

Agreed. Interesting question, though. How many umpires of color are there? Kader Nouni and Carlos Bernardes. Anyone else? James Kyathophong (sp?) adds diversity. Anyone else?

 

[britbox]

^I'm not sure that's necessary. All I hope for is that we stop this crap of inconsistent umpiring. The extremes we saw in the US Open were unacceptable

You'll always have inconsistent umpiring. Just like you get inconsistent refereeing in football. Some are better at their job than others. Wherever humans are involved, that will never change.

We already have diverse opinions on this thread... some saying the umpire should rigidly enforce the laws of the sport, others saying they should exercise common sense (which is subjective)...

I don't think Ramos put a foot wrong.

You can talk "Whataboutisms"... you'll always have that, but it's not Ramos fault if some other umpire makes a stupid decision (i.e. the Kyrgios match pep talk).

 

[El Dude]

I would love to see an African American female ump all of Serena’s matches.

Why? Do you think all, most or even many non-black male umps are racist, sexist, or biased in some way?

And should we then have only white dudes ump white male matches? Only Slavic umps for Slavic players? Do we really want to go there?

 

[tossip]

Why? Do you think all, most or even many non-black male umps are racist, sexist, or biased in some way?

And should we then have only white dudes ump white male matches? Only Slavic umps for Slavic players? Do we really want to go there?

well they want to boycott her matches so get AA umpires for her...let the likes of Carlos umpire his lily white crushes..

 

[tossip]

well Osaka got what she wanted to play Serena and get endorsements...they are pouring in .Serena has made a lot of girls rich.She is the standard..beat still rusty Serena just like 2004 and you will be rich..

 

[El Dude]

well they want to boycott her matches so get AA umpires for her...let the likes of Carlos umpire his lily white crushes..

Yeah, let's make this more of a race thing and pit black and white umpires against each other. Seems like a great idea - as if the world doesn't have enough divisiveness already.

As for Carlos Ramos, is there any reason to think that his decision had anything to do with race (or gender)? Anything at all? If not, that's a terrible accusation to make, and a cheap tactic on your (and Serena's) part.

 

[tossip]

Yeah, let's make this more of a race thing and pit black and white umpires against each other. Seems like a great idea - as if the world doesn't have enough divisiveness already.

As for Carlos Ramos, is there any reason to think that his decision had anything to do with race (or gender)? Anything at all? If not, that's a terrible accusation to make, and a cheap tactic on your (and Serena's) part.

well ask Vee about how he has accused her of cheating and the video is going viral on IG..Carlos is no saint ask Venus.

 

[El Dude]

Nice article. I think it sums things up nicely:

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2018...erena-williams-naomi-osaka-controversy/76919/

 

[El Dude]

well ask Vee about how he has accused her of cheating and the video is going viral on IG..Carlos is no saint ask Venus.

Who said anything about him being a saint?

The question is whether he is fair, and if he followed the rules. I think the answer is yes and yes, which the article I just posted covers nicely.

 

[Vince Evert]

well ask Vee about how he has accused her of cheating and the video is going viral on IG..Carlos is no saint ask Venus.

enough with your twisting and drumming up a vendetta between Ramos and the Williams sisters Bullshit. She was a bad sport and as her anger grew and grew, desperately threw a number of red herrings at the umpire and that's all there was to it.

I give her some credit after the match where she tried to console the young lass from japan and stopped the jeers and booing (or was trying to) but it was Serena's actions that created the situation.

 

[10isfan]

Why? Do you think all, most or even many non-black male umps are racist, sexist, or biased in some way?

And should we then have only white dudes ump white male matches? Only Slavic umps for Slavic players? Do we really want to go there?

Because I’m getting tired of things being attributed to race and gender. With an African American female ump, Serena couldn’t use discrimination as an excuse to play victim.

 

[Chris Koziarz]

Because I’m getting tired of things being attributed to race and gender. With an African American female ump, Serena couldn’t use discrimination as an excuse to play victim.

ITF dismissed such "segregation" as impractical. In the end tennis is a global sport so must include people of all races. While you cannot eliminate racial sentiments (the bearers of such sentiments often acquire it unconsciously from the environment of their upbringing) you can force everyone to act as if said sentiments didn't exist (by appropriate and policed laws). At the same time, the sentiments will naturally dissipate and eventually disappear, if you encourage diversity within the group working towards a common goal. A segregation in any form has been proven to only increase racial sentiments within segregated groups, that's why segregation is unlawful everywhere in US with its exemplary history of racial tensions. Because of said history, the Americans know what they are doing so just follow their lawmakers. Your own solution, especially when based on your emotional opinion of the moment, will be worse.

In practical terms, what do you want to make of your proposition? Two different flavours of tennis? "Black female tennis" (umped by a female AA and played by Williams) vs. "The rest of tennis" (not played by Williams & umped by anyone at hand)? How "smart" or "good" does it sound? Certainly much better IMO (and also in the opinion of lawyers) is to allow free mixing of all people within the singly defined role (chair ump in this case), and police any racially motivated bias in a case by case basis only if such bias surfaces.

 

[10isfan]

It was merely wishful thinking on my part so as to eliminate possible reasons Serena could interpret events as a personal attack on her race and gender. Of course I realize umps can’t be assigned as I posted. That would be racist.

 

[Srini]

^I'm not sure that's necessary. All I hope for is that we stop this crap of inconsistent umpiring. The extremes we saw in the US Open were unacceptable

As much as we all want perfection, thats never going to happen as long as human being continue to officiate (different matter if & when robots take over). Inconsistent umpiring is as much a fact of life as inconsistent reaction of players to events on the ground. Putting all the onus on umpires and giving a free pass to players doesnt work. And how do you ensure players dont escalate situations that may lead to such outcomes?

 

[Federberg]

You'll always have inconsistent umpiring. Just like you get inconsistent refereeing in football. Some are better at their job than others. Wherever humans are involved, that will never change.

We already have diverse opinions on this thread... some saying the umpire should rigidly enforce the laws of the sport, others saying they should exercise common sense (which is subjective)...

I don't think Ramos put a foot wrong.

You can talk "Whataboutisms"... you'll always have that, but it's not Ramos fault if some other umpire makes a stupid decision (i.e. the Kyrgios match pep talk).

I'm not sure that a comparison between football and tennis has much merit. What needs to happen, just like after another huge controversy in the Capriati match, is a re-assessment of the leeway these umpires seem to have. No one would complain if there was a better attempt at consistency. There clearly isn't. In this tournament we've had one umpire applying the laws aggressively and another one offering counseling to a player. It is absolutely ridiculous

 

[britbox]

I'm baffled why this match even is a controversy. Ramos did a good job.

Now, the Kyrgios umpire clearly shouldn't have left the chair. I think most people accepted that... but that shouldn't have any bearing on Ramos' decision making. If we want consistency then lets level up to good practice not dumb down to the less smart calls.

 

[britbox]

I'm not sure that a comparison between football and tennis has much merit. What needs to happen, just like after another huge controversy in the Capriati match, is a re-assessment of the leeway these umpires seem to have. No one would complain if there was a better attempt at consistency. There clearly isn't. In this tournament we've had one umpire applying the laws aggressively and another one offering counseling to a player. It is absolutely ridiculous

I'd also throw the Henin match in. Some have got it wrong with her but in this particular case, I thought Ramos was spot on. The coaching was admitted by the coach... and that was also the main point of contention with the later violation.

 

[Federberg]

I'm baffled why this match even is a controversy. Ramos did a good job.

Now, the Kyrgios umpire clearly shouldn't have left the chair. I think most people accepted that... but that shouldn't have any bearing on Ramos' decision making. If we want consistency then lets level up to good practice not dumb down to the less smart calls.

I have no problem with that mate. But I think it's naive not think about the overall context. Right from the start I've said 3 things...

(1) Serena was wrong and out of order
(2) Umpire followed the letter of the law
(3) Umpiring was not consistent, and as long as certain players or types of players get the harsher punishments questions about "-ism's" are justifiable.

 

[Vince Evert]

extended highlights now available, minus the serena controversies-