2018 US Open Final: S. Williams vs. N. Osaka

[Vince Evert]

Those US Open "rough treatments" were some years ago. Time has moved on and she certainly has.
I don't see how they would have played a part. And yes i believe she has put a lot of pressure on herself which was clearly demonstrated with the way she kept asking for an apology and calling him a thief. In another era, McEnroe or Connors would never had carried on to the same extent and were each good at knowing when to stop and regaining their focus on playing their best tennis.

 

[Chris Koziarz]

Those US Open "rough treatments" were some years ago. Time has moved on and she certainly has.
I don't see how they would have played a part. And yes i believe she has put a lot of pressure on herself which was clearly demonstrated with the way she kept asking for an apology and calling him a thief. In another era, McEnroe or Connors would never had carried on to the same extent and were each good at knowing when to stop and regaining their focus on playing their best tennis.

Well... no. Maccy was also very explosive, and he can be definitely called a "male version" of Serena. Remember how Maccy was unable to stop until he was defaulted for his verbal abuse? I don't think Serena was defaulted in the same way (yet) although the point/game penalties directly contributed to her losses in two matches: agianst Kim & this very one, in almost identical circumstances, which is very telling.

 

[Vince Evert]

Well... no. Maccy was also very explosive, and he can be definitely called a "male version" of Serena. Remember how Maccy was unable to stop until he was defaulted for his verbal abuse? I don't think Serena was defaulted in the same way (yet) although the point/game penalties directly contributed to her losses in two matches: agianst Kim & this very one, in almost identical circumstances, which is very telling.

Yeah Australian open in 1990. But that was because he thought the code violations process was still four step rule but was changed to three step to default process.

 

[Moxie]

Well... no. Maccy was also very explosive, and he can be definitely called a "male version" of Serena. Remember how Maccy was unable to stop until he was defaulted for his verbal abuse? I don't think Serena was defaulted in the same way (yet) although the point/game penalties directly contributed to her losses in two matches: agianst Kim & this very one, in almost identical circumstances, which is very telling.

I don't agree that this is at all similar. McEnroe was a constant hothead, firstly. Serena hasn't had nearly the run-ins with lines people or the chair. But also, pointedly, one of Serena's issues is the cumulative affect of wrongs served at the hands specifically at the USO.

 

[Federberg]

I've had the chance to sleep and gather my thoughts following the final and put my thoughts together. We have to split things into the tennis and then the controversy.

With regards to the tennis, I disagree with those who say that Serena was still not back to her best. Sometimes we don't see the things staring us in the face. Serena was playing fantastic tennis. She just happened to be facing a young woman who was playing extraordinary tennis. There just happened to be a match up component that Serena was unable to solve. Right from the start it was clear that Naomi had no problems with Serena's serve. Osaka was punishing Serena's second serve in a way that few other players have been able to do, perhaps Venus in her prime, Capriati, Clijsters and Sharapova have been able to make similar in roads. But of those only Venus had the ability to back up return of serve pressure with really big serving as well. And even then, Venus's serve could be erratic. In Osaka she faced a woman who's serve was also extraordinarily big. There was absolutely no zone of comfort for Serena. Perhaps even more amazing is the fact that it was clear than in baseline rallies Serena was not able to dominate her consistently. In fact Osaka's tendency to hit the ball deep tended to force Serena further and further back from the baseline which radically increased the level of discomfort she was experiencing. We have to remember that Serena has been here before, we have seen her unable to cope with the pressure in milestone grand slam finals before. Remember when she was going for 18? It took her a long time to get over that hump. And lets not talk about when she was going for the calendar slam. My take on Serena's performance was that it was more mentality than form which was her major impediment. This time Serena had two major hurdles to overcome: reaching 24, and winning her first slam after giving birth. Either one alone would have been tough to handle, she had both, in her home slam of all places. The court where some of the most egregious injustices have been perpetrated against her.

As for the controversy, I don't think anyone can dispute that each of the incidents were correct.

(1) It is clear that her coach was signalling her, which is something I absolutely loathe. I must admit I was shocked to see this, as Serena has always rejected on court coaching, so it was a surprise to see her getting signals. It is quite possible though that she didn't see it as she claims. I'm actually amazed that the umpire saw it. The fact that she was on the opposite side of the court from her box at the time makes me think that the umpire should have exercised common sense and just quietly warned Serena at the next changeover. "Your coach was giving you advice, if I see that again I'm going to penalise you". That would have taken care of it. I watched Justine Henin lose to Bartoli in the Wimbledon final, and before every point.... every point... she was looking at her box for advice. She didn't get a warning. The idea that the umpire didn't see that is not credible. Yet she got no warning. Why is that? Why was the punishment so different for Serena? And Henin is not unique. Just the other day, Rafa's box was clearly signalling him, he got no warning. Yet Serena in a slam final gets punished at a critical time in the match. I'm sorry but there's something very off about that. I'm no Serena fan. Never have been. I always liked Venus, but fair is fair.

(2) I don't have much to say about the racquet smash. That one is pretty cut and dried. It's consistently applied. Nothing to see there

(3) This is the one that really drives me crazy. Everyone knows I'm a huge Federer fan. I love his tennis. I've met him, he's a really nice guy, sincere and thoughtful. But I've never been such a fan boy that I would give him a pass because he's my guy. I just don't roll like that. The idea that Serena did anything worse than he did in confronting the umpire is laughable. The reality is that I could have brought up countless situations where men have challenged umpires at least as aggressively as Serena did, and I don't recall any of the men punished for it. But it's worse than that. At that point in the match - slam final - she had already been given 2 penalties. Someone yesterday tried to bring up a defence for the umpire that she had already been called twice so she was asking for it. Actually the point is that she had been called twice, you would think the umpire would have exercised good judgement at that point. Never once in the conversation did the umpire say to her, look I've called you twice now. Please be careful from this point forward because the next time I'll be forced to give you a game penalty. In any other sport the umpire would be expected to manage the circumstances and give the player context. This didn't happen. T|his was grossly incompetent in my view. I would say this if this was the first time Serena had been in a controversy on Ashe. Some will say, that's the point, this isn't the first time. Serena should have been aware of this, therefore it's on her. Anyone who thinks that is one of those sad people who has never been in a pressure situation in their life and has simply sat on the shoulders of giants. It doesn't work that way. The umpire is paid to manage the situation to create the most fair outcome for the players and at the same time give the fans their money's worth in terms of entertainment. He didn't do that.

Look.. I blame Serena for a great deal of this. She is entitled, and I will remain convinced that Venus has never really competed fully against her because the fall out would have impacted their relationship, and it simply wasn't worth it to her. That's why I don't really warm up to Serena much. But at the same time, she is treated differently. It is extraordinary to me that officials don't hesitate to take unusual steps against this black woman in particular. There is something there. I am convinced of it. Most might disagree with me. On this I will not be moved. Feel free to disagree with me, but I think y'all know I don't give a damn about that. It is what it is. One treatment for her, something else for the rest

 

[Srini]

If Serena thinks the world is perfect, she is naive. After being on tour at that level for so long, after all those previous controversies if she expected umpires to behave in the most perfect way, she is being naive. All officials are human beings after all. Everyone has sub conscious bias , including herself. My point is, after couple of penalties she should not have provoked the umpire. When she is ready to take that step, she needs to be ready to face the decision of umpire as long as that is within his powers. Playing victim card, especially after her past incidents doesn’t sell. It’s ok to bring out the sexist angle but she should have owned up to her behaviour in making bad situation worse.

 

[shawnbm]

I don’t think it has anything to do with being black—thecrace card shouldn’t be played. It may have to do with Serena and her attitude on court and with the press. She gets angry and accusatory when rules are applied even she is in the wrong. Folks don’t forget that. She kept pushing even a couple games after the racquet smashing and insults the umpire personally. One has to let it go and play the match; she doesn’t. Would Venus have done that? Over and out.

 

[Chris Koziarz]

Look.. I blame Serena for a great deal of this. She is entitled, and I will remain convinced that Venus has never really competed fully against her because the fall out would have impacted their relationship, and it simply wasn't worth it to her. That's why I don't really warm up to Serena much. But at the same time, she is treated differently. It is extraordinary to me that officials don't hesitate to take unusual steps against this black woman in particular. There is something there. I am convinced of it. Most might disagree with me. On this I will not be moved. Feel free to disagree with me, but I think y'all know I don't give a damn about that. It is what it is. One treatment for her, something else for the rest

I think this "something" you are wondering about could be as little as Serena's threatening tone of voice. You brought Fed example. Fed actually does never speak with such threatening voice and finger wagging, even if he's pissed off and swears. IMO, the tone of voice is more important in such situations than the actual language expletives. And unfortunately, Serena's tone works against her, regardless if she realises it or not. Do you recall her serious abuse of lineswoman in Kim match? Poor woman was just running for her life. I still remember this scene very vividly: Serena immediately denied that he made any threats (as if she really did not realise sad threatening tone of her voice) but the reality looks different on the receiving side of such threatening tone of speech. And remember, the same officials who lived through that abusive rant from few years ago, have been on duty today. They have already experienced the controversy with Serena, so no wonder they felt threatened by her next tantrum, and no surprise really if they over-reacted.

My final advice to you. I know you live in Europe (due to the timing of your post) likely in UK, therefore you may not understand that in US, it's a very bad idea to discriminate people against skin colour if you don't state a valid reason for such discrimination. Even discriminating against sex is bad idea, IMO but you haven't started that (Serena did), so while should be OK to complain "[they] take unusual steps against this woman", you give no reason to say "black woman", therefore your statement does not make sense to say the least, so you should erase the word "black" from your message. I don't take it any more seriously but others could. I just say the general rule: don;t discriminate people if you don't give a valid reason for it.

 

[kskate2]

I've had the chance to sleep and gather my thoughts following the final and put my thoughts together. We have to split things into the tennis and then the controversy.

With regards to the tennis, I disagree with those who say that Serena was still not back to her best. Sometimes we don't see the things staring us in the face. Serena was playing fantastic tennis. She just happened to be facing a young woman who was playing extraordinary tennis. There just happened to be a match up component that Serena was unable to solve. Right from the start it was clear that Naomi had no problems with Serena's serve. Osaka was punishing Serena's second serve in a way that few other players have been able to do, perhaps Venus in her prime, Capriati, Clijsters and Sharapova have been able to make similar in roads. But of those only Venus had the ability to back up return of serve pressure with really big serving as well. And even then, Venus's serve could be erratic. In Osaka she faced a woman who's serve was also extraordinarily big. There was absolutely no zone of comfort for Serena. Perhaps even more amazing is the fact that it was clear than in baseline rallies Serena was not able to dominate her consistently. In fact Osaka's tendency to hit the ball deep tended to force Serena further and further back from the baseline which radically increased the level of discomfort she was experiencing. We have to remember that Serena has been here before, we have seen her unable to cope with the pressure in milestone grand slam finals before. Remember when she was going for 18? It took her a long time to get over that hump. And lets not talk about when she was going for the calendar slam. My take on Serena's performance was that it was more mentality than form which was her major impediment. This time Serena had two major hurdles to overcome: reaching 24, and winning her first slam after giving birth. Either one alone would have been tough to handle, she had both, in her home slam of all places. The court where some of the most egregious injustices have been perpetrated against her.

As for the controversy, I don't think anyone can dispute that each of the incidents were correct.

(1) It is clear that her coach was signalling her, which is something I absolutely loathe. I must admit I was shocked to see this, as Serena has always rejected on court coaching, so it was a surprise to see her getting signals. It is quite possible though that she didn't see it as she claims. I'm actually amazed that the umpire saw it. The fact that she was on the opposite side of the court from her box at the time makes me think that the umpire should have exercised common sense and just quietly warned Serena at the next changeover. "Your coach was giving you advice, if I see that again I'm going to penalise you". That would have taken care of it. I watched Justine Henin lose to Bartoli in the Wimbledon final, and before every point.... every point... she was looking at her box for advice. She didn't get a warning. The idea that the umpire didn't see that is not credible. Yet she got no warning. Why is that? Why was the punishment so different for Serena? And Henin is not unique. Just the other day, Rafa's box was clearly signalling him, he got no warning. Yet Serena in a slam final gets punished at a critical time in the match. I'm sorry but there's something very off about that. I'm no Serena fan. Never have been. I always liked Venus, but fair is fair.

(2) I don't have much to say about the racquet smash. That one is pretty cut and dried. It's consistently applied. Nothing to see there

(3) This is the one that really drives me crazy. Everyone knows I'm a huge Federer fan. I love his tennis. I've met him, he's a really nice guy, sincere and thoughtful. But I've never been such a fan boy that I would give him a pass because he's my guy. I just don't roll like that. The idea that Serena did anything worse than he did in confronting the umpire is laughable. The reality is that I could have brought up countless situations where men have challenged umpires at least as aggressively as Serena did, and I don't recall any of the men punished for it. But it's worse than that. At that point in the match - slam final - she had already been given 2 penalties. Someone yesterday tried to bring up a defence for the umpire that she had already been called twice so she was asking for it. Actually the point is that she had been called twice, you would think the umpire would have exercised good judgement at that point. Never once in the conversation did the umpire say to her, look I've called you twice now. Please be careful from this point forward because the next time I'll be forced to give you a game penalty. In any other sport the umpire would be expected to manage the circumstances and give the player context. This didn't happen. T|his was grossly incompetent in my view. I would say this if this was the first time Serena had been in a controversy on Ashe. Some will say, that's the point, this isn't the first time. Serena should have been aware of this, therefore it's on her. Anyone who thinks that is one of those sad people who has never been in a pressure situation in their life and has simply sat on the shoulders of giants. It doesn't work that way. The umpire is paid to manage the situation to create the most fair outcome for the players and at the same time give the fans their money's worth in terms of entertainment. He didn't do that.

Look.. I blame Serena for a great deal of this. She is entitled, and I will remain convinced that Venus has never really competed fully against her because the fall out would have impacted their relationship, and it simply wasn't worth it to her. That's why I don't really warm up to Serena much. But at the same time, she is treated differently. It is extraordinary to me that officials don't hesitate to take unusual steps against this black woman in particular. There is something there. I am convinced of it. Most might disagree with me. On this I will not be moved. Feel free to disagree with me, but I think y'all know I don't give a damn about that. It is what it is. One treatment for her, something else for the rest

I agree Serena wasn't playing badly, but she wasn't top drawer either. The one thing she has complete control over regardless of her opponent is her serve and her footwork. I felt both were a level down from where she had been in previous matches. The reality is she was a little off and she ran into a buzzsaw that emulates her game in every aspect even to getting her old hitting partner as a coach. It was always going to be an emotional match for Serena facing Sascha's pupil. I remember the first time she played Vika when Sascha coached her and she lost that match too (in straights and had no answer or gameplan for Vika's level).

I appreciate your thoughtful impartial analysis. We discussed some of this yesterday and we all agreed the first 2 codes were correctly applied. The game penalty for sure was the back breaker and like I said yesterday a bit over the top. After listening to the exchange again. I don't think she used foul language with him. She just kept berating him for an apology and when he said he wouldn't give her one, she called him a thief for taking that point from her. And you're right not one soft warning ever came from him during the changeovers.

All that being said, we still sit on the sidelines and the chairs have alot of power whether they believe they do or not. IMO, when he saw her verbal tirade he should have tried to diffuse the situation by giving her a soft warning, not pour gas on the fire w/ a game penalty.

I won't even bring up other players because we know there's some blatant conduct abuse (coaching, foul language etc) going on but I can't ever remember a male or another female for that matter ever receive a game penalty because they disagreed w/ the chair and I've been watching this sport for a long time and I'm probably older than most posters here.

 

[Federberg]

I agree Serena wasn't playing badly, but she wasn't top drawer either. The one thing she has complete control over is her serve and her footwork. I felt both were a level down from where she had been. The reality is she was a little off and she ran into a buzzsaw that emulates her game in every aspect even to getting her old hitting partner as a coach. It was always going to be an emotional match for Serena facing Sascha's pupil. I remember the first she played Vika when Sascha coached her and she lost that match too (in straights and had no answer or gameplan for Vika).

I have to disagree. Serena wasn't allowed to be top draw because of the way Naomi was playing. It was a match up issue. The things that Naomi does just hurt Serena badly. Fantastic ROS, great serving, fantastic movement, power baseline hitting, mental strength and most importantly deep shots. She made it difficult for Serena to execute her game plan and it's clear that Serena was playing under extreme pressure. Something about Ashe ups the stakes for her. To me... saying that she wasn't playing top draw tennis is like refusing to see that Federer often wasn't allowed to play his tennis back in the day against Rafa. Match ups are real, it happens

 

[Federberg]

I think this "something" you are wondering about could be as little as Serena's threatening tone of voice. You brought Fed example. Fed actually does never speak with such threatening voice and finger wagging, even if he's pissed off and swears. IMO, the tone of voice is more important in such situations than the actual language expletives. And unfortunately, Serena's tone works against her, regardless if she realises it or not. Do you recall her serious abuse of lineswoman in Kim match? Poor woman was just running for her life. I still remember this scene very vividly: Serena immediately denied that he made any threats (as if she really did not realise sad threatening tone of her voice) but the reality looks different on the receiving side of such threatening tone of speech. And remember, the same officials who lived through that abusive rant from few years ago, have been on duty today. They have already experienced the controversy with Serena, so no wonder they felt threatened by her next tantrum, and no surprise really if they over-reacted.

My final advice to you. I know you live in Europe (due to the timing of your post) likely in UK, therefore you may not understand that in US, it's a very bad idea to discriminate people against skin colour if you don't state a valid reason for such discrimination. Even discriminating against sex is bad idea, IMO but you haven't started that (Serena did), so while should be OK to complain "[they] take unusual steps against this woman", you give no reason to say "black woman", therefore your statement does not make sense to say the least, so you should erase the word "black" from your message. I don't take it any more seriously but others could. I just say the general rule: don;t discriminate people if you don't give a valid reason for it.

Please don't presume to give me advice. I'm happy to read your opinion, and if it differs from mine that's ok. We're all entitled to our opinions. I don't take back one word I wrote. I wouldn't have written it if I didn't believe it. I find it laughable that your commentary implies that a black woman is inherently more threatening than a 6ft 1 white guy swearing in a rage at an umpire. A guy who is universally understood to be one of the most powerful people in sports. In sports, not just tennis! So what did the umpire have to be threatened about with Serena? Did he think she was going to hit him with her racquet. Give me a break...

 

[kskate2]

I have to disagree. Serena wasn't allowed to be top draw because of the way Naomi was playing. It was a match up issue. The things that Naomi does just hurt Serena badly. Fantastic ROS, great serving, fantastic movement, power baseline hitting, mental strength and most importantly deep shots. She made it difficult for Serena to execute her game plan and it's clear that Serena was playing under extreme pressure. Something about Ashe ups the stakes for her. To me... saying that she wasn't playing top draw tennis is like refusing to see that Federer often wasn't allowed to play his tennis back in the day against Rafa. Match ups are real, it happens

I'm not saying match ups aren't real, but Naomi and even Nadal don't control how well the opponent is serving. We both know, not every serve comes back. And to play a little devil's advocate, one could say it's because she has a volatile relationship w/ Ashe stadium that freezes her ability to play her best level or even think her way through those challenging matches. That whole thing is strange to me. She plays all her matches on Ashe. Never plays on another court, but waits for the final to become emotionally challenged or in 09 a SF? :scratch:

 

[Ricardo]

I will just say again: Serena has a history with the USOpen, and I don't think it has always been fair to her. She's within her rights to be angry, and while I'll agree that she should or could have managed it better today, I understand why she didn't. I also think she had the more pressure today. But my main complaint will continue to be that men get away with more stroppy and aggressive behavior than women do. I think Carlos Ramos would have reacted differently to being called a "thief" by a man than he did to being called one by a woman. The men swear like sailors, break racquets, hit balls into the stadium, grapple with the umpires, tank sets, and Kyrgios even impuned a female player to incite Wawrinka with less consequence then what Serena did today. Safin is the record racquet smasher. Shapo hit an umpire in the eye and caused him to have surgery, out of anger. Kygrios tanks, swears, makes absolutely blue remarks. Soderling has had such tirades as to bring out the tournament director, but somehow people are only mad at Serena. If people don't see the sexism in her getting the loss of a game in a Major Final, then I don't know what to say.

Not surprised rubbish sexism and racism is brought out by brainless people. Aggressive? Who else threatened lineswoman about shoving her racquet into her throat? Or calling umpire thief? You think Ramos would react differently? It’s baseless speculation as usual. Johnny Mac and Nalbadian got sent off the court and Davy didnt even mean it. The world is a far better place when we shut up the feminist idiots who are simply waste of precious food source and clean air.

Guys don’t get away with racquet abuse, keep making it up liar. And complain whatever, feminists are nothing but worthless whingers....they never accomplish greatness to start with anyway.

 

[Ricardo]

I don’t think it has anything to do with being black—thecrace card shouldn’t be played. It may have to do with Serena and her attitude on court and with the press. She gets angry and accusatory when rules are applied even she is in the wrong. Folks don’t forget that. She kept pushing even a couple games after the racquet smashing and insults the umpire personally. One has to let it go and play the match; she doesn’t. Would Venus have done that? Over and out.

Exactly, can’t belive how PC idiots would so cheaply bring out the race or gender card, when simply Serena Williams has a known history with such things while Henin didn’t.

 

[Federberg]

@Federberg Don't forget to make your picks in the NFL pickem thread

done

 

[Ricardo]

I don't agree that this is at all similar. McEnroe was a constant hothead, firstly. Serena hasn't had nearly the run-ins with lines people or the chair. But also, pointedly, one of Serena's issues is the cumulative affect of wrongs served at the hands specifically at the USO.

At which point in his career did Mac ever threaten a linesperson? Keep lying.

 

[Ricardo]

Well... no. Maccy was also very explosive, and he can be definitely called a "male version" of Serena. Remember how Maccy was unable to stop until he was defaulted for his verbal abuse? I don't think Serena was defaulted in the same way (yet) although the point/game penalties directly contributed to her losses in two matches: agianst Kim & this very one, in almost identical circumstances, which is very telling.

Mac was sent packing for verbal abuse while leading, whereas Williams was given penalty while losing to a better player of the day.

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

I think what the umpire is guilty of more than anything is not getting control of the situation. He especially inserted himself when the outcome was pretty much inevitable that Naomi was winning this match by further fueling a situation with the loss of a game. I don’t think at any point he inserted himself and warned her to further continue this after the racquet smash would result in nasty consequences. Serena was ugly about it, and she certainly needs to learn how to move past something when it happens. Serena definitely isn’t the best at losing, and he had to know that he was playing with fire hitting her with the loss of a game when the chips were down already. The simple thing to do was say, “Ms. Williams we are done with this matter. If you have a complaint, take it up with officials after the match; otherwise, I will be forced to take further consequence.”

 

[Front242]

Exactly, can’t belive how PC idiots would so cheaply bring out the race or gender card, when simply Serena Williams has a known history with such things while Henin didn’t.

So true. Absolutely ridiculous reading all the butt hurt weirdos claiming this is a racial thing when her opponent in the final is pretty damn far from white last time I checked! Some people here and on tennis.com seem to have an inferiority complex that they try and make EVERY negative comment a racial thing. Very sad.

 

[Ricardo]

Former umpire Richard Ings did exactly the same thing with Mac in 1987, issued warning, point then game penalty for misconduct, and he pointed out that Ramos did exactly what he did justifiably.....all these nonsense saying ‘oh they didn’t give Nadal warning bla bla bla’, since when does someone else getting away with it makes it ok for you to also get away with it? Now any murderer would be unguilty because OJ got away with it, like countless others...people like Moxie just have shit for brains. I got booked for speeding and never did the idea cross my mind that the car next to me was also speeding and only I got stopped.