2018 US Open Final: S. Williams vs. N. Osaka

[Vince Evert]

you need to shut up Sir with your ignorant ass,you are the typical brit that is bigoted and angry and call people of color names.

just can't take the fact she lost her head and got outclassed and outplayed by a better player on the day hahahaha

 

[kskate2]

Wasn’t that the year Justine sniffed it away from her

No that was 2003. In 04 was the Russian invasion. Kuzzy and Elena played the final.

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

Well one thing is for sure from the presser sounds like Patrick is going to get laid out for what he said to the press.

 

[Vince Evert]

No, he made a gesture that pushed his hands forward. But he said she wasn't watching. He admitted he was coaching, but that she didn't see it. I find it no different from what we all do in front of the TV. Seeing it, it looked more self-reflexive from him.

Serena probably was correct then but it's how she reacted to it thereafter, was a disgrace. Therefore the umpire was right to take action. Let this be a lessen to other coaches watching from the stands.

 

[Moxie]

Serena Press Conference

I hope everyone watches all of that press conference, especially those that denigrate Serena in that match. She talks about how she never even takes on-court coaching when it's allowed. She talks about what making her own decisions means to her. She talks about how men get given a pass where women don't.

 

[nehmeth]

A lot of back and forth between live chat and subsequent posts. I'm going to say my bit, because I'm rather furious about how it went down. I'm so happy Osaka won, as it seemed to be the outcome that was looming. She played with calm, nerve and powerful game. She had Serena's number, and wasn't intimidated by the opponent, or the magnitude of the moment. That said, I think the umpire inserted himself more than was necessary, and really made a hash of a final that was going along in its own way. I know Serena can be her own worst enemy when she feels harshly treated compared to others and gets emotional, but she has been hard done by at the USOpen more than once, and I DO think she has been more harshly treated, sometimes. Her reaction today was also about an accumulation of harsh or poor judgements at this particular event that went against her. I challenge anyone to remember the last time someone was penalized an entire game in a GS final...or any event, for that matter. Just tell me the last one you remember. And I honestly think that the umpire took undue umbrage that she called him a "thief" because he was a man, and she was a woman. It's not a swear word. She should have some latitude to take out her emotions in such an important moment without a (male) umpire getting his panties in a twist and penalizing her a game. He should take it on the chin and let the match play out. I've seen far worse behavior by men on the court and it rarely results in a point penalty, much less a game penalty. Even Bad Nicky does much worse things and just gets fined later. I think, in terms of umpiring, it was a travesty. As far as the crowd, and people like @nehmeth judging them, they don't all understand the rules, and all they saw was a point, then a game being taken from Serena. It's hard for the crowd to understand when it's not explained.

23 slams and she is playing the victim, saying she wasn't being coached while her coach said he was coaching her? Calling Ramos sexist and saying that she was speaking reasonably with him when obviously the video shows otherwise? Then the tears and all that she is doing for women? Hard to have a lot of sympathy.

As for the NYC crowd, after 40+ years of watching the U.S. Open and seeing the transition from Forest Hills (knowledgeable, polite folk) to Flushing Meadows... their boorish behavior this evening is just one of many instances. It's one thing to be upset, but taking it to the levels that they so often go, is off putting imo.

 

[kskate2]

Wasn't the Clijsters one the 3rd set, though? And late in it?

No. The Kim match was a straight set loss. In fact all these drama situations were straight sets except for the one in 04.

 

[Chris Koziarz]

She's not the only player give to emotional outbursts. I could mention McEnroe, Connors, Nastase, amongst the greater men, and Fognini, Soderling, Safin and others amongst the lesser. How many women would you add to that list? Men do it because they are competitors and Serena does it because she's immature or a brat or a complainer? No, they all do it because they're competitors and passionate.

I agree with you all players (men & a woman) you mentioned are the same immature humans & I call them brats. I cannot explain to you why Serena seems to have been penalised more for her behaviour than the men you mentioned. Maybe because her outburst were more serious (e.g. the abuse of a woman in Kim match, that was very serious on the edge of a criminal demeanour) or maybe because they unnecessarily excite her emotions like Ramos did with his initial coaching warning, I don;t know.
However I 100% disagree with your opinion that players have tantrums because "they're competitors and passionate". You take things totally backwards here. Do you imply that those players who have no tantrum outbursts are not "passionate"? Obviously not necessarily so. They may have the same passion as Serena but unlike Serena, they learned how to control their emotions and became more mature in the process. And obviously, as such they deserve more respect in this context than Serena does. Again, when someone stays calm while facing a distressing (even unjust) emotions, it's a sign of maturity, and not lack of passion as you'd suggest.

 

[Vince Evert]

I hope everyone watches all of that press conference, especially those that denigrate Serena in that match. She talks about how she never even takes on-court coaching when it's allowed. She talks about what making her own decisions means to her. She talks about how men get given a pass where women don't.

i agree with her comment against on-court coaching but then she tries to twist and turn it into a red-herring about 'men given a pass where women don't'. Not nice.

 

[Vince Evert]

I don't see why they close the roof just for a 50% chance of a few showers.

is that reason why some parts of the crowds booed the USTA chief and other officials as they took to court during the presentations.

 

[Chris Koziarz]

i agree with her comment against on-court coaching but then she tries to twist and turn it into a red-herring about 'men given a pass where women don't'. Not nice.

Yes Vince, that's the key IMO. She basks in her role of a victim accusing the world of everything bad, even unnecessarily (and unjustly) generalising the accusations into sexism (which must be hanging heavily in her consciousness), a typical behaviour of an egotic child. More mature person would rather take a challenge into her hands and show people she's beyond it all. Eventually she wouuld fend off her frustration because of an unjust coaching violation later at the presser. In psychology, it's called "delayed gratification". But by gratifying her emotions on the spot and starting her tirade at Ramos during the match she gained nothing but likely sealed her match loss.

 

[Fiero425]

Yes Vince, that's the key IMO. She basks in her role of a victim accusing the world of everything bad, even unnecessarily (and unjustly) generalizing the accusations into sexism (which must be hanging heavily in her consciousness), a typical behaviour of an egotic child. More mature person would rather take a challenge into her hands and show people she's beyond it all. Eventually she wouuld fend off her frustration because of an unjust coaching violation later at the presser. In psychology, it's called "delayed gratification". But by gratifying her emotions on the spot and starting her tirade at Ramos during the match she gained nothing but likely sealed her match loss.

I was just if not more disappointed in that classless crowd! We're supposed to expect better from knowledgeable NY fans! :whistle: :cuckoo:

 

[Moxie]

I was just if not more disappointed in that classless crowd! We're supposed to expect better from knowledgeable NY fans! :whistle: :cuckoo:

We nerds know the rules but the general crowd doesn't. You could be more sympathetic to that.

 

[Chris Koziarz]

I was just if not more disappointed in that classless crowd! We're supposed to expect better from knowledgeable NY fans! :whistle: :cuckoo:

There is no such thing as "classy crowd". They usually follow the leader (in this case an initial loudest caller/heckler who must have been Serena's fan) and act stupid and always dumber than the average intelligence level of their members. Even if there are thousands of highly reasonable people in the crowd who try to overtake control and quench the silliness excited by the initial heckler, their voices are drowned by tens of thousands not thinking but shouting loud.

 

[Fiero425]

We nerds know the rules but the general crowd doesn't. You could be more sympathetic to that.

Nyah, I'd be more sympathetic to that child who got caught up in all that BS! :whistle:

 

[Moxie]

i agree with her comment against on-court coaching but then she tries to twist and turn it into a red-herring about 'men given a pass where women don't'. Not nice.

Tell me when you think men have been called to task for the same behavior. Plenty of them have been ill-behaved and stroppy with the chair. Even Federberg has said that Roger has sworn at the chair umpire without penalty. She didn't even swear at Carlos Ramos. She used no foul language. She was arguing her case. She was righteously indignant based on the way she's been treated at the USO in the past. A game penalty?? In a Major final? I'm still waiting for someone to realistically justify that.

 

[Moxie]

There is no such thing as "classy crowd". They usually follow the leader (in this case an initial loudest caller/heckler who must have been Serena's fan) and act stupid and always dumber than the average intelligence level of their members. Even if there are thousands of highly reasonable people in the crowd who try to overtake control and quench the silliness excited by the initial heckler, their voices are drowned by tens of thousands not thinking but shouting loud.

The crowd didn't understand the rules, and as far as I can tell they weren't explained. They were understandably incensed about what seemed like unfairness.

 

[Fiero425]

The crowd didn't understand the rules, and as far as I can tell they weren't explained. They were understandably incensed about what seemed like unfairness.

Do those idiots think they know the rules better than the officials? I try to only fly thru that TOWN! :whistle:

 

[Vince Evert]

Tell me when you think men have been called to task for the same behavior. Plenty of them have been ill-behaved and stroppy with the chair. Even Federberg has said that Roger has sworn at the chair umpire without penalty. She didn't even swear at Carlos Ramos. She used no foul language. She was arguing her case. She was righteously indignant based on the way she's been treated at the USO in the past. A game penalty?? In a Major final? I'm still waiting for someone to realistically justify that.

Thanks Mox, I didn't see the game until 4-2 Osaka's way in the second set. But let's be honest here who brought these incidences- today's , '09 and '11, on ? It was serena. Yes she was right to argue her case but then pro-longing it was her undoing and costed her big time. Therefore the chair umpire was right to penalize her a game. I sometimes think she is her own worst enemy. That and also some of her off court comments about wanting to win for her daughter "doing it for all the Moms" puts a heck of a lot of pressure on herself. At least It's to her credit she was able to put aside her disappointment and console (or trying to) young Naomi during the presentation. A new champion has arrived and hopefully a consistent one at that !

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

Do those idiots think they know the rules better than the officials? I try to only fly thru that TOWN! :whistle:

The only thing they probably know is they were expecting Serena to serve and then she wasn’t and Osaka was. As a ticket holder, they were probably pissed. Was the outcome likely to change, no, but I’m sure they felt cheated out of a game. That is what taking the reins can mean a very ugly scene afterward.