2018 US Open Final: S. Williams vs. N. Osaka

Who ya got?

  • Serena in straights

    Votes: 3 25.0%
  • Serena in 3 sets

    Votes: 4 33.3%
  • Naomi in straights

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • Naomi in 3 sets

    Votes: 3 25.0%

  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .

Fiero425

The GOAT
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
11,513
Reactions
2,576
Points
113
Location
Chicago, IL
Website
fiero4251.blogspot.com
The only thing they probably know is they were expecting Serena to serve and then she wasn’t and Osaka was. As a ticket holder, they were probably pissed. Was the outcome likely to change, no, but I’m sure they felt cheated out of a game. That is what taking the reins can mean a very ugly scene afterward.

Only in NY can you have riots and stray bullets flying around! This MAJOR is so minor IMO! It's almost not worth it; a total joke! :negative: :(
 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,700
Reactions
14,878
Points
113
Do those idiots think they know the rules better than the officials? I try to only fly thru that TOWN! :whistle: :nono: :facepalm: :rolleyes: :sick:
My point is why would they know the rules, if not explained to them? They are fairly arcane. And NYC is perfectly happy if you only pass through and avoid us. Likely too sophisticated for you, New York. We don't have many Applebee's or Olive Gardens. It actually pisses us off that we have any. :cool:
 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,700
Reactions
14,878
Points
113
Only in NY can you have riots and stray bullets flying around! This MAJOR is so minor IMO! It's almost not worth it; a total joke! :negative: :(
Riots and stray bullets? You are another candidate for the tin foil hat.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fiero425

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,700
Reactions
14,878
Points
113
Thanks Mox, I didn't see the game until 4-2 Osaka's way in the second set. But let's be honest here who brought these incidences- today's , '09 and '11, on ? It was serena. Yes she was right to argue her case but then pro-longing it was her undoing and costed her big time. Therefore the chair umpire was right to penalize her a game. I sometimes think she is her own worst enemy. That and also some of her off court comments about wanting to win for her daughter "doing it for all the Moms" puts a heck of a lot of pressure on herself. At least It's to her credit she was able to put aside her disappointment and console (or trying to) young Naomi during the presentation. A new champion has arrived and hopefully a consistent one at that !
I will just say again: Serena has a history with the USOpen, and I don't think it has always been fair to her. She's within her rights to be angry, and while I'll agree that she should or could have managed it better today, I understand why she didn't. I also think she had the more pressure today. But my main complaint will continue to be that men get away with more stroppy and aggressive behavior than women do. I think Carlos Ramos would have reacted differently to being called a "thief" by a man than he did to being called one by a woman. The men swear like sailors, break racquets, hit balls into the stadium, grapple with the umpires, tank sets, and Kyrgios even impuned a female player to incite Wawrinka with less consequence then what Serena did today. Safin is the record racquet smasher. Shapo hit an umpire in the eye and caused him to have surgery, out of anger. Kygrios tanks, swears, makes absolutely blue remarks. Soderling has had such tirades as to bring out the tournament director, but somehow people are only mad at Serena. If people don't see the sexism in her getting the loss of a game in a Major Final, then I don't know what to say.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fiero425

Billie

Nole fan
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
5,330
Reactions
850
Points
113
Location
Canada
Osaka is a delightful young lady and a very good tennis player, hopefully she won't succumb to the pressure of having such a huge success early in her career and struggle for a few years afterwards like they all seem to do nowadays.
 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,700
Reactions
14,878
Points
113
Osaka is a delightful young lady and a very good tennis player, hopefully she won't succumb to the pressure of having such a huge success early in her career and struggle for a few years afterwards like they all seem to do nowadays.
Wow, long time no hear from you, Billie. You an Osaka fan, or have you just come back from under a rock because Novak is doing well again?
 

Fiero425

The GOAT
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
11,513
Reactions
2,576
Points
113
Location
Chicago, IL
Website
fiero4251.blogspot.com
I will just say again: Serena has a history with the USOpen, and I don't think it has always been fair to her. She's within her rights to be angry, and while I'll agree that she should or could have managed it better today, I understand why she didn't. I also think she had the more pressure today. But my main complaint will continue to be that men get away with more stroppy and aggressive behavior than women do. I think Carlos Ramos would have reacted differently to being called a "thief" by a man than he did to being called one by a woman. The men swear like sailors, break racquets, hit balls into the stadium, grapple with the umpires, tank sets, and Kyrgios even impuned a female player to incite Wawrinka with less consequence then what Serena did today. Safin is the record racquet smasher. Shapo hit an umpire in the eye and caused him to have surgery, out of anger. Kygrios tanks, swears, makes absolutely blue remarks. Soderling has had such tirades as to bring out the tournament director, but somehow people are only mad at Serena. If people don't see the sexism in her getting the loss of a game in a Major Final, then I don't know what to say.

So you approve her use of false equivalence to what men get away with? She went once, twice, then thrice to the well of disrespect and acting up , break a racket and that's what put her in this predicament! I'm sure she feels like the victim, but why is she going to fall back on the "woman card" instead of realizing her big mouth did it again? She has to realize these same officials were there when she threatened a lineswoman on Int'l TV! I think that's why they were all too short w/ her thinking "she's used up all the benefit of the doubt entitled to!" :rolleyes:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Billie

Billie

Nole fan
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
5,330
Reactions
850
Points
113
Location
Canada
I will just say again: Serena has a history with the USOpen, and I don't think it has always been fair to her. She's within her rights to be angry, and while I'll agree that she should or could have managed it better today, I understand why she didn't. I also think she had the more pressure today. But my main complaint will continue to be that men get away with more stroppy and aggressive behavior than women do. I think Carlos Ramos would have reacted differently to being called a "thief" by a man than he did to being called one by a woman. The men swear like sailors, break racquets, hit balls into the stadium, grapple with the umpires, tank sets, and Kyrgios even impuned a female player to incite Wawrinka with less consequence then what Serena did today. Safin is the record racquet smasher. Shapo hit an umpire in the eye and caused him to have surgery, out of anger. Kygrios tanks, swears, makes absolutely blue remarks. Soderling has had such tirades as to bring out the tournament director, but somehow people are only mad at Serena. If people don't see the sexism in her getting the loss of a game in a Major Final, then I don't know what to say.

I don't agree that men get away with more than women. They get penalised the same way, Shapovalov hit an umpire (not deliberately) and was defaulted from the tournament. Nalby was defaulted in the final, even though he didn't mean to hurt an ump. Nick has had so many fines and code violations, he perhaps didn't have 3 in one match to have a game penalty but I am sure that they would give it to him if he did it. Every time somebody breaks a racquet they get a violation. I've seen Fabio get more than 1 verbal abuse violation, Nole too, but they usually settle down after 1 in a match. Serena was going after Ramos for 15 minutes and wouldn't shut up, after already receiving 2 code violations. What do you expect them to do? Just leave her there for hours to rant, scream and yell? How much abuse is too much for you? All violations were warranted. Too bad she spoiled it for the young Osaka a little bit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 10isfan and mrzz

Billie

Nole fan
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
5,330
Reactions
850
Points
113
Location
Canada
Wow, long time no hear from you, Billie. You an Osaka fan, or have you just come back from under a rock because Novak is doing well again?

LOL no, I came back for the NFL picks, as that is the fun thing to do. I am not a fan of Osaka, but I thought she played really well and has a fun personality. Why do you ask, you don't like her?
 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,700
Reactions
14,878
Points
113
So you approve her use of false equivalence to what men get away with? She went once, twice, then thrice to the well of disrespect and acting up , break a racket and that's what put her in this predicament! I'm sure she feels like the victim, but why is she going to fall back on the "woman card" instead of realizing her big mouth did it again? She has to realize these same officials were there when she threatened a lineswoman on Int'l TV! I think that's why they were all too short w/ her thinking "she's used up all the benefit of the doubt entitled to!" :rolleyes:
No, I don't think this is about false equivalence. It's about actual non-equivalence. She's got a big mouth, but a lot of men do, too, and they get penalized less. Do you honestly not get that? Did you not see my post about Safin threatening the chair with his racquet, for a foot fault. All 6'4" of him. No one gave him even a warning. It's sexist.
 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,700
Reactions
14,878
Points
113
LOL no, I came back for the NFL picks, as that is the fun thing to do. I am not a fan of Osaka, but I thought she played really well and has a fun personality. Why do you ask, you don't like her?
No, I really like her a lot. Stated fan. I guess you like to keep it to the football.
 

Fiero425

The GOAT
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
11,513
Reactions
2,576
Points
113
Location
Chicago, IL
Website
fiero4251.blogspot.com
No, I don't think this is about false equivalence. It's about actual non-equivalence. She's got a big mouth, but a lot of men do, too, and they get penalized less. Do you honestly not get that? Did you not see my post about Safin threatening the chair with his racquet, for a foot fault. All 6'4" of him. No one gave him even a warning. It's sexist.

Well you have to admit "Serena's a lot more menacing looking!" :whistle: :yesyes: :rolleyes: :ptennis:
 

Billie

Nole fan
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
5,330
Reactions
850
Points
113
Location
Canada
No, I don't think this is about false equivalence. It's about actual non-equivalence. She's got a big mouth, but a lot of men do, too, and they get penalized less. Do you honestly not get that? Did you not see my post about Safin threatening the chair with his racquet, for a foot fault. All 6'4" of him. No one gave him even a warning. It's sexist.

When Safin played, the rules were not the same. That time seems like ages ago, with all the changes the world has gone through, let alone tennis. If anything those past times were perhaps sexist, but I don't know about nowadays.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 10isfan

Vince Evert

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Sep 7, 2014
Messages
3,900
Reactions
1,867
Points
113
I will just say again: Serena has a history with the USOpen, and I don't think it has always been fair to her. She's within her rights to be angry, and while I'll agree that she should or could have managed it better today, I understand why she didn't. I also think she had the more pressure today. But my main complaint will continue to be that men get away with more stroppy and aggressive behavior than women do. I think Carlos Ramos would have reacted differently to being called a "thief" by a man than he did to being called one by a woman. The men swear like sailors, break racquets, hit balls into the stadium, grapple with the umpires, tank sets, and Kyrgios even impuned a female player to incite Wawrinka with less consequence then what Serena did today. Safin is the record racquet smasher. Shapo hit an umpire in the eye and caused him to have surgery, out of anger. Kygrios tanks, swears, makes absolutely blue remarks. Soderling has had such tirades as to bring out the tournament director, but somehow people are only mad at Serena. If people don't see the sexism in her getting the loss of a game in a Major Final, then I don't know what to say.

Something we'll never know. Mox i want to invite you to a fun off topic am about to start called :pParaprosdokianians. You know it ?
 
Last edited:

tenisplayrla08

Major Winner
Joined
Apr 19, 2013
Messages
2,319
Reactions
503
Points
113
I will just say again: Serena has a history with the USOpen, and I don't think it has always been fair to her. She's within her rights to be angry, and while I'll agree that she should or could have managed it better today, I understand why she didn't. I also think she had the more pressure today. But my main complaint will continue to be that men get away with more stroppy and aggressive behavior than women do. I think Carlos Ramos would have reacted differently to being called a "thief" by a man than he did to being called one by a woman. The men swear like sailors, break racquets, hit balls into the stadium, grapple with the umpires, tank sets, and Kyrgios even impuned a female player to incite Wawrinka with less consequence then what Serena did today. Safin is the record racquet smasher. Shapo hit an umpire in the eye and caused him to have surgery, out of anger. Kygrios tanks, swears, makes absolutely blue remarks. Soderling has had such tirades as to bring out the tournament director, but somehow people are only mad at Serena. If people don't see the sexism in her getting the loss of a game in a Major Final, then I don't know what to say.


THIS!!!!!!! So much this.

Serena is not perfect. No one is claiming she is. And stuff happens. Things get out of hand. And while I don't think the first offense, what Mouratoglou was doing with his hands, rises to coaching. But if it did. IF it did, we've seen SO many male players coached on this court. I totally think it comes down to double standards.

But. What I said to myself earlier today, is that Serena got completely outclassed in the first set. And couldn't hold after going up a break in the second. So Serena wouldn't have been in the position to lose the match if she hadn't been so slow to start in the first set. So there is zero world where Osaka didn't deserve this title. I wasn't expecting much out of her at the beginning of this tournament because she hasn't been great since IW. But it was not surprising at all to see her deal with a decimated draw very well and her mauling Serena in the first set did not surprise me at all. I HATE how the second set went down. But Osaka was brilliant today and how the second set played out should take absolutely nothing away from her win. I mean, she was so calm. The entire time. Because she completely and wholy believes in herself. The commentators said multiples times over the last two weeks about her game that, "There is no fear in her game."

So thrilled to see her get her first slam. I was never gonna be completely satisfied today anyways. I wanted Serena to get #24 and keep her 1 slam per year streak going. But I also really wanted to see Osaka get her first slam. You can't have both.

These ladies that we've been expecting so much out of for a few years are finally coming into their own. With Osaka, Stephens, Halep, Muguruza, Sabalenka, Keys. Mertens and Barty solidly top 20 now. I mean, Mertens made her first grand slam semi at the start of the year and totally backed it up all year (after a few rough weeks). A new crop of top tier players are on the rise with Serena only getting older. Her chances will start to dwindle to get that elusive 24th title and surpass that. But we all know she's definitely still gonna get there. I mean, she made the last two slam finals of the year after finally getting herself going. Her draws weren't terribly hard until the finals. But I mean, as long as she's healthy she's a threat for the Wimbledon title. Still the best grass court player on the planet.
 

Chris Koziarz

Masters Champion
Joined
Mar 5, 2018
Messages
928
Reactions
403
Points
63
Location
Sydney NSW
Poor Carlos. His sticking to the rules required to ignore Serena's emotions. They probably instructed him on that aspect of umpiring specifically, to avoid a recent mistake made by Mo with Nick.
But rather than hopefully coming up better than Mo did, Carlos will actually regret his action. Crowd boing him, TD deciding not to give him the souvenir, and now receiving harsh scolding remarks from tennis writers for his "unnecessary and destructive involvement" in the match. Mo is actually smiling now and patting Carlos at the back and saying: "Hey brother, you should not ignore Serena's emotions, you should step down from the chair and give her my pep talk, you should even hug her, and everything would be back on track! Screw the rules, we are umpires but we are also humans not computers!". Except, with Mo's prior experience, not only Carlos but no ump would dare to do what was right to do against tennis rules in this case. What a travesty of justice!
EDIT: Both Mo & Carlos are my favourite umps & I'm sad they strayed into mistakes in their umpiring, in such extremely opposite ways, rather than staying their middle ground and be in control of their matches.
 
Last edited:

Vince Evert

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Sep 7, 2014
Messages
3,900
Reactions
1,867
Points
113
to me Serena has put a lot of pressure on herself, not only here but at Wimbledon, with some of her off court statements that may well have affected her psychologically, notably the way she kept at the umpire when she should have stopped and regained her focus and it costed her dearly. But credit to her opponent the way she closed out the match in style, showed a lot of class and did not let the distractions bother her except perhaps during the trophy presentation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fiero425

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,700
Reactions
14,878
Points
113
to me Serena has put a lot of pressure on herself, not only here but at Wimbledon, with some of her off court statements that may well have affected her psychologically, notably the way she kept at the umpire when she should have stopped and regained her focus and it costed her dearly. But credit to her opponent the way she closed out the match in style, showed a lot of class and did not let the distractions bother her except perhaps during the trophy presentation.
You can't possibly think that the only one who puts pressure on Serena is herself. And maybe you missed the points about her rough history at the USO. Anyway, I love Osaka, and was pulling for her. I think she acquitted herself beautifully today, all around.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fiero425