2016 Roland Garros: Paris Sidewalk Cafe Discussions

[ClayDeath]

Nadal's collapse on clay has been immense.
This is one man, only one man who has these record achievements on clay:

Monte Carlo Masters (1897) 8 men's singles titles Stands alone
French Open [Roland Garros] (1925) 9 men's singles titles Stands alone
Rome Masters (1930) 7 men's singles titles Stands alone
Barcelona Open (1953) 8 men's singles titles Stands alone

But healthy Nadal in 2015 in those same tournaments:
Monte Carlo - L in SF (Djokovic)
Barcelona Open - L in R16 (Fognini)
Rome Masters - L in QF (Wawrinka)
French Open [Roland Garros] - L in QF (Djokovic)

2016 on clay: Lost in Semifinals in Buenos Aires 250 (Thiem), and Rio 500 (Cuevas).
Prior to 2015 Rio (lost in SF to Fognini), Rafa hadn't lost a semifinal on clay in 12 years (52-0), since Carlos Moya beat a 17 year old Nadal at Umag in July 2003.
Since 2015, Rafa is 3-4 in clay semifinals, beating Berlocq, Berdych, & Seppi.

This is how colossal the fall has been.

Respectfully,
masterclass

this has never happened before. no all time great has ever lost so big and so easily on his best surface.

and we know that nobody has ever dominated their best surface the way Rafa did on clay.


this is a colossal fall of the staggering proportions.



but we know what is going on. only the uninformed blind worshipping kind cant grasp this concept.


the man simply does not care to win and therefore is not winning. not even a 500 level event on clay.


not even a 250 level event on clay.


his fitness and his game are in absolute shambles. how is he even expected to win in this state.


just find him a golf course and a meaningless exo on an indoor surface against some unknown 50 year old player.


everybody wants Rafa to win. we all want to see his 10th RG.



only one problem with that: Rafa doesn't care to win another RG. he even said so but nobody pays any attention to that. people just don't listen.


the man does not want to win and he does not care to win.

Nalby said this: it is clay or the exit.


it is clay or nothing. and nothing it will be.

 

[ClayDeath]

nobody can come back from such a staggering decline in a short period of time and stage an assault at a difficult slam like RG.

it will take 9-10 months of solid preparation and massive blocks of work of fitness.

translation: he can only be a factor in 2017 but it does not look like it is going to happen.

 

[britbox]

Trust me when I say I have never worshipped Rafa Nadal in any context.

Yes, he has fallen a long way from grace and I certainly don't make him favourite for Roland Garros... but totally irrelevant? He might not win anything but he'll be relevant until he hangs it up... and I mean relevance in the context of his peers not against his own legacy. Wawrinka might not win anything during the clay swing either.... but he'll still be relevant too...

The dominant Rafa of yesteryear isn't coming back guys but that doesn't mean he's totally irrelevant - there is some grey area, it's not black and white.

 

[ClayDeath]

Trust me when I say I have never worshipped Rafa Nadal in any context.

Yes, he has fallen a long way from grace and I certainly don't make him favourite for Roland Garros... but totally irrelevant? He might not win anything but he'll be relevant until he hangs it up... and I mean relevance in the context of his peers not against his own legacy. Wawrinka might not win anything during the clay swing either.... but he'll still be relevant too...

The dominant Rafa of yesteryear isn't coming back guys but that doesn't mean he's totally irrelevant - there is some grey area, it's not black and white.

I was not talking about you mate.

there are millions and millions on facebook and the like who simply cant grasp what is going on. his game and his fitness have been falling since 2010. a little more difficult to detect back then but still visible to a keen eye.

injuries had a role in that.


it is not by accident. it is by design. he doesn't care to win anymore.


he would do something about it if he really wanted to win.


he is an immortal in the sports world and one day worth over $1 billion.

he is done making the sacrifices to be dominant again.


when you consider what he has accomplished on clay to a point where he cant even win a 250 level clay event, I am afraid that does make him irrelevant on clay.


irrelevance: this simply means that he cant win any title and he is not trying to win any title. and accordingly cant be considered a factor at any event. most especially at RG.


the man hesitated for days and days before he went to bueno aires. he knew that heat and humidity would cause problems for him there. he also knew he could not win.

seeding will be low. he has to face low level, 2nd rate qualifiers to get a round or 2. throw one good player at him and if he has to take 4 hours to get by him, he is toast in the next round.


think of irrelevance as being a non-factor.

he is very big in the sport obviously and his popularity continues to skyrocket but he is not a factor at any event. have you not seen enough yet.

he lost in the quarterfinals of all the slams last year. this year it should be 1-2 rounds unless he finds hapless, legless qualifiers for the first 1-3 rounds.


he has to win monte carlo and Barcelona. or Barcelona and rome.


and he needs a win over djokovic on clay going into RG. then and only then we may be able to conclude that he is trying to make an impression at RG.


now what are the chances of that happening?

 

[ClayDeath]

we knew this was coming. we even said last year that Rio would be difficult this year.

those practice sessions are more like a photo shoots for public consumption. they are lame and lazy. he hangs out in his backhand corner hitting as many forehands as he can. terrified to hit backhands and terrified to move to the center of the court.


tony cant tell him a damn thing.

and if tony does say something, he simply gets yelled at by Rafa.

nothing has happened this year. he has gotten worse. far worse.

he changed nothing and said he was going to change nothing. in fact he said that he was doing just fine.

tony just said that the Miami draw is "complicated". he also said the same thing about the indian wells draw.

basically nothing is going to be easy.


why the hell are they even there in Miami?

 

[ClayDeath]

I sure hope Roger can get back in the saddle fast. would like to see him do well in monte carlo.

roger is your 2nd favorite at RG. he just needs to make some progress on clay.

strong showing in monte carlo and rome would do roger some good going into paris.

I cant see stan defending his title there. his form has declined while djokovic now has endless gears to work with.

stan is also getting old. he is competitive because he works hard at his fitness and his game but his best days are behind him.

 

[masterclass]

Singles Records @ Roland Garros:

Titles:

9 Rafael Nadal (2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014)

6 Björn Borg (1974, 1975, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981)

4 Henri Cochet (1926, 1928, 1930, 1932)

3

René Lacoste (1925, 1927, 1929),
Ivan Lendl (1984, 1986, 1987),
Mats Wilander (1982, 1985, 1988),
Gustavo Kuerten (1997, 2000, 2001)​

--------------------------------------------------

Open Era records @ Roland Garros

Consecutive singles titles:
5 Rafael Nadal 2010–14
4 Björn Borg 1978–81, Rafael Nadal 2005–08

Consecutive Matches Won:
39 Rafael Nadal 2010–15
31 Rafael Nadal 2005–09
28 Björn Borg 1978–81
20 Jim Courier 1991–93

Consecutive Sets Won:
41 Björn Borg 1979–81
32 Rafael Nadal 2007–09
29 Ilie Nastase 1973–74
22

Guillermo Vilas 1977–78
Björn Borg 1978–79
Rafael Nadal 2006–07
Rafael Nadal 2010–11​

Won a title without losing a set:
2 Björn Borg (1978, 1980)
2 Rafael Nadal (2008, 2010)
1 Ilie Nastase (1973)


Respectfully,
masterclass

 

[ClayDeath]

Singles Records @ Roland Garros:

Titles:

9 Rafael Nadal (2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014)

6 Björn Borg (1974, 1975, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981)

4 Henri Cochet (1926, 1928, 1930, 1932)

3

René Lacoste (1925, 1927, 1929),
Ivan Lendl (1984, 1986, 1987),
Mats Wilander (1982, 1985, 1988),
Gustavo Kuerten (1997, 2000, 2001)​

--------------------------------------------------

Open Era records @ Roland Garros

Consecutive singles titles:
5 Rafael Nadal 2010–14
4 Björn Borg 1978–81, Rafael Nadal 2005–08

Consecutive Matches Won:
39 Rafael Nadal 2010–15
31 Rafael Nadal 2005–09
28 Björn Borg 1978–81
20 Jim Courier 1991–93

Consecutive Sets Won:
41 Björn Borg 1979–81
32 Rafael Nadal 2007–09
29 Ilie Nastase 1973–74
22

Guillermo Vilas 1977–78
Björn Borg 1978–79
Rafael Nadal 2006–07
Rafael Nadal 2010–11​

Won a title without losing a set:
2 Björn Borg (1978, 1980)
2 Rafael Nadal (2008, 2010)
1 Ilie Nastase (1973)


Respectfully,
masterclass

great post.

such a wealth of information here in this post.


Nasty was the top gun in 1973.

he caught Borg in his prime at Wimbledon. Borg took it in straights.

it was in 1976.

 

[Moxie]

Trust me when I say I have never worshipped Rafa Nadal in any context.

Yes, he has fallen a long way from grace and I certainly don't make him favourite for Roland Garros... but totally irrelevant? He might not win anything but he'll be relevant until he hangs it up... and I mean relevance in the context of his peers not against his own legacy. Wawrinka might not win anything during the clay swing either.... but he'll still be relevant too...

The dominant Rafa of yesteryear isn't coming back guys but that doesn't mean he's totally irrelevant - there is some grey area, it's not black and white.

Exactly, and you can look at @masterclass's post for why the odds-makers won't count him out until he hangs them up. A commentator said recently that Rafa has an instinct for peaking for the last Sunday at RG. He's going to start needing some draw assistance, esp. ranked at 5.

Since this is the Paris Sidewalk Cafe thread, perhaps we could start talking about others besides Nadal. At least stuff to look out for in the looming clay season. Djokovic will be favored, of course, and Wawrinka and (yes) Nadal will be just below him on the list. Murray had a pretty good clay season last year, so he'll be one to watch. Obviously, everyone will be holding their breath over DelPotro's wrist, and looking at Thiem's clay season, at least as a spoiler. And you can never count Roger out completely. Personally, I think Ferrer is losing a bit of steam. Any others that people will be having their eyes on Prior to RG?

 

[ClayDeath]

Ferru is basically done but he has enough fitness and game to snatch 5-7 small events.

I would consider Andy as the 2nd favorite now.

we started this thread a while back. we have had a chance to look at Rafa's form. now it is even worse than last year.

and god forbid the next injury which is always looming with such pathetic fitness for that style of play.

roger's surgery is a setback for him. for that reason I have to now install andy as the 2nd favorite.

stan is done. people forget how old he is. he wont find that form again. he does not have the game or the fitness to deal with djokovic

and also djokovic is on a much higher plane now. he is not the same djokovic that showed up at last year's final. he is more prepared and better now than at any time in the past.

how good is he? he may not lose another match this year. that is how good.

rafa is completely irrelevant on any surface and most especially on clay where you have to have reasonable level of fitness. he will be lucky to survive 2 rounds and that is only if they are against hapless, toothless qualifiers.


it has to be djokovic this time.

he is focused, driven, hungry and talented so why not. and he is simply outworking them all.

only question that remains is this: who gets the sliver medal at RG.

 

[Moxie]

So you have Andy at #2. Wawrinka and Nadal done. Any spoilers you like?

 

[britbox]

I'm looking forward to seeing how Thiem does in the clay swing and at Roland Garros.

 

[Denis]

As of now I would rank favorites as follows:

Heavy favorite: Novak

Contenders: Nadal, Federer, Murray

Outsiders: Wawrinka, Del Potro, Thiem, Nishikori, Ferrer, Raonic, Goffin

 

[ClayDeath]

So you have Andy at #2. Wawrinka and Nadal done. Any spoilers you like?

Wawrinka is at least competitive.

He works diligently on his fitness and his game. I am just saying that his days of beating Djokovic are long over.

Andy may have a better shot at RG but he is going to need help:

--- kind draw
--- Somebody taking out Djokovic

--- A final between Andy and Djokovic where Djokovic shows up flat

Andy has the youth and the fitness to stay with Djokovic on a slower surface.

We will just have to see.

 

[ClayDeath]

No spoilers.

They are just not good enough.

It has to be Djokovic or Andy.

Now Andy has to focus and take a few scalps on clay.

 

[Moxie]

No spoilers.

They are just not good enough.

It has to be Djokovic or Andy.

Now Andy has to focus and take a few scalps on clay.

No feel for Thiem, Kyrgios, or Del Potro?

 

[masterclass]

Federer arrived early in Monte Carlo.
While Novak, Nishikori and others were playing on Miami's hard courts, it looks like Federer is over his illness
He was hard at work on the clay @Monte Carlo since Saturday.

Federer working on the backhand

Two against one drills

 

[ClayDeath]

No feel for Thiem, Kyrgios, or Del Potro?

they are not even good enough to win masters events so how can they make this quantum leap to slams.

del potro is done. thiem and kyrgios will make some noise here and there but only on faster courts.

theim and kyrgios don't count as far as the big clay events are concerned. they are good but not good enough.

 

[ClayDeath]

Federer arrived early in Monte Carlo.
While Novak, Nishikori and others were playing on Miami's hard courts, it looks like Federer is over his illness
He was hard at work on the clay @Monte Carlo since Saturday.

Federer working on the backhand

Two against one drills

good to see roger back. clay will help him get better.

 

[Moxie]

they are not even good enough to win masters events so how can they make this quantum leap to slams.

del potro is done. thiem and kyrgios will make some noise here and there but only on faster courts.

theim and kyrgios don't count as far as the big clay events are concerned. they are good but not good enough.

I was just think of them as spoilers. Of course, Del Potro was once good enough to live a Slam, but it's hard to know what's going on with the wrist.