2016 Roland Garros: Paris Sidewalk Cafe Discussions

[ClayDeath]

would you be busy lining up exos on indoor hard courts against lesser players just before the clay season?

whatever the hell for? why?

what was the real need for a vacation in cancun and Cozumel while all the other players are working as hard as they possibly can as the real core of the season is in sight?

he has had plenty of time off already. he does not last very long at any event and often loses early.

where is the fitness? where is the ground game?

you cant get that by lip service.

 

[britbox]

Well, most people will assume he wants to win, and fitness may play a part, but it's also mechanics...

Rafa, fit or not, is going to struggle when serving like Sara Errani and returning serve like Sara Jessica Parker.

He's also lost some explosiveness, half a yard and lacking confidence and the mental edge.

Some things may be fixable (if as you say, he dedicates himself) but some of the others might be gone for good.

 

[britbox]

would you be busy lining up exos on indoor hard courts against lesser players just before the clay season?

whatever the hell for? why?

what was the real need for a vacation in cancun and Cozumel while all the other players are working as hard as they possibly can as the real core of the season is in sight?

he has had plenty of time off already. he does not last very long at any event and often loses early.

where is the fitness? where is the ground game?

you cant get that by lip service.

No, agreed... time to put the cash gathering activities on hold for the time being...

 

[ClayDeath]

I don't think he has to win MC, Barcelona (and Madrid) and Rome. He has to make a great show of the clay season, I'll give you that. For his own confidence. He's won RG without a Full House going in, so that's not necessary. It's about where his confidence is.

And now it's also about the draw. Well, fair enough...the Fed people are all over how he might yet win another Wimbledon or USO, and it's been about the draw, for years. So fine, I'm saving up my pennies to bribe the ITF (which apparently is plausible,) for this scenario:

Let's say Djokovic draws the likes of Kyrgios and Thiem in his quarter, and Wawrinka in his half. This would be tough, and he's got his nerves to contend with...being the Nole Slam and the Career slam on line, etc. And say Rafa has Roger in his quarter and a potential Murray SF. Not so bad. If someone knocks out Novak before the final, so much the better. Anyway, whomever Rafa might meet in the final, he has a better muscle memory than any of them for winning there.

So, a few things might have to fall into place, and that would mean Rafa playing better for a start, I'll give you that. But the scenario is not implausible.

That's my 2 cents over coffee.

he has to win 2 out of 3 and he has to beat djokovic at least once.


and he has to be on clay ASAP. he has to skip Miami.


Monte Carlo, Barcelona, and Rome: he has to win 2 out of these 3 and beat djokovic at least one time in the process.

 

[ClayDeath]

this slam is closer than you think.

it is right around the corner.


who has the first round of drinks?

 

[isabelle]

Well, most people will assume he wants to win, and fitness may play a part, but it's also mechanics...

Rafa, fit or not, is going to struggle when serving like Sara Errani and returning serve like Sara Jessica Parker.

He's also lost some explosiveness, half a yard and lacking confidence and the mental edge.

Some things may be fixable (if as you say, he dedicates himself) but some of the others might be gone for good.

Returning like SJP is certainly a good image !! well done Owen

 

[ClayDeath]

I never thought a day would come when Rafa is totally and completely irrelevant at RG.

And yet that is the state of affairs.

No focus, no aim, no fitness, and no game.

How the hell can you win with that many liabilities?

 

[ClayDeath]

RG approaches.

 

[britbox]

I never thought a day would come when Rafa is totally and completely irrelevant at RG.

And yet that is the state of affairs.

No focus, no aim, no fitness, and no game.

How the hell can you win with that many liabilities?

Nah, he'll never be irrelevant at RG. He might not be the favourite, but he won't ever be irrelevant - he's the greatest clay courter of all time.

 

[ClayDeath]

Nah, he'll never be irrelevant at RG. He might not be the favourite, but he won't ever be irrelevant - he's the greatest clay courter of all time.

you cant set sail today with yesterday's winds.


a man that cant even win a 250 level clay event is basically irrelevant on his own very best surface that he dominated for a decade.

even hamburg will be difficult but who the hell really believes that Rafa wants to win anymore.

he does not otherwise he would do something about it.

 

[ClayDeath]

of course he is the greatest clay court player of all times but that does not buy you relevance on clay today if you cant beat anybody of any significance at all on that very surface today.

 

[britbox]

of course he is the greatest clay court player of all times but that does not buy you relevance on clay today if you cant beat anybody of any significance at all on that very surface today.

Who else will be more relevant than Nadal at Roland Garros other than Djokovic? Wawrinka as defending champion? The list will be short.

 

[ClayDeath]

Who else will be more relevant than Nadal at Roland Garros other than Djokovic? Wawrinka as defending champion? The list will be short.

he cant win mate. 1-2 rounds and he is done.


he is not into winning anymore.

did you not see what happened in rio and Buenos aires? it gets worse from there.

indian wells was pure luck. he should have been out against the lanky Russian.

now he again has a couple of lame players in the early rounds in Miami and then it will be over.

also what really is the use of getting into the 2nd week at RG. he will run into a top player or djokovic who will swat him aside like a hapless mosquito while just giving him a couple of games out of mercy.


he simply wont win anything if he wont focus and work. and it all starts with fitness.

 

[ClayDeath]

a man that could not snatch rio and Buenos aires is not relevant on clay. he is most certainly not relevant at RG.

his idea of practicing his returns is a round of doubles. he cant even get the ball back on their serves. how the hell can you win if you cant break.

 

[britbox]

Listen mate, Djokovic is a cut above the whole tour right now, doesn't make Nadal or the rest of the field worthless... I'd bet money that Rafa goes beyond 2 rounds at RG.

 

[ClayDeath]

Who is talking about Djokovic mate?

we are talking about the greatest player ever lived on clay who can't snatch a Mickey Mouse clay event.

Even Sampras finds his staggering decline on clay shocking but I do not.

I knew the road Rafa was on. I knew it would lead him to complete irrelevancy on clay.

He basically threw it all away because that is what he wanted.

I made is very clear last year that Rio would be difficult for him this year.

Those quarterfinal losses at all 4 slams last year could turn into 1-2 round losses at all slams this year.

He is just hanging out on the tour.

there is exactly zero concern about winning.

 

[masterclass]

Listen mate, Djokovic is a cut above the whole tour right now, doesn't make Nadal or the rest of the field worthless... I'd bet money that Rafa goes beyond 2 rounds at RG.

Hmm, Baron @britbox, I wouldn't bet any money until I saw the draw.

Someone like Del Potro can be a dangerous floater if he can stay healthy, get more matches under his belt, and still not likely to be in the top 32 seeds.
If his backhand is anywhere back near normal, I sure wouldn't want to play him in the first or second round at RG even if I were playing well.

Rafa played only 17 matches on European Clay last year before having to face Djokovic at RG, and had 0 titles.
It was no surprise to me or many others that he lost to Novak handily.

He's lost in the second, third round, and first round in the last 3 majors.
I'm afraid nothing's guaranteed any more for Rafa, even on clay.
He has a lot of work to do.

I think I laid it out somewhere before.
He needs to win at least 1 title on European clay, preferably Monte Carlo or Rome, and have at least 18 matches under his belt before RG starts, 20 would be better.
But I think even the Barcelona 500 may be a big challenge. He lost to Fognini there last year in straight sets in the second round. This year even the 250 tourneys have been too much.

But maybe he will slowly improve his fitness and level, we'll see.

I haven't written him off yet, but he needs to leave his poker, golf, exhibition mindset behind him and get out there and work for it for him to have any reasonable chance.
The Rafael Nadal Tennis Academy in Manacor opens late in the spring (May-June).

Respectfully,
masterclass

 

[masterclass]

Nadal's collapse on clay has been immense.
This is one man, only one man who has these record achievements on clay:

Monte Carlo Masters (1897) 8 men's singles titles Stands alone
French Open [Roland Garros] (1925) 9 men's singles titles Stands alone
Rome Masters (1930) 7 men's singles titles Stands alone
Barcelona Open (1953) 8 men's singles titles Stands alone

But healthy Nadal in 2015 in those same tournaments:
Monte Carlo - L in SF (Djokovic)
Barcelona Open - L in R16 (Fognini)
Rome Masters - L in QF (Wawrinka)
French Open [Roland Garros] - L in QF (Djokovic)

2016 on clay: Lost in Semifinals in Buenos Aires 250 (Thiem), and Rio 500 (Cuevas).
Prior to 2015 Rio (lost in SF to Fognini), Rafa hadn't lost a semifinal on clay in 12 years (52-0), since Carlos Moya beat a 17 year old Nadal at Umag in July 2003.
Since 2015, Rafa is 3-4 in clay semifinals, beating Berlocq, Berdych, & Seppi.

This is how colossal the fall has been.

Respectfully,
masterclass

 

[ClayDeath]

No other all time great has ever suffered such massive casualties on their best surface.

again this does not happen overnight.

he made his decline more pronounced by simply calling it a career.

You just read about Barcelona event last year in the general masterclass post above.

He would lose to Fog for the 2nd time on clay in a fairly short period of time.

he said he was not the favorite against anybody after that match.

He was right. you really can't beat anyone of any significance on any surface if you have decided to call it a career.

hence the staggering drop in every single aspect of his game and also a dramatic decline in fitness and physicality.

He simply walked away without leaving the tour which is still proving to be too lucrative.

 

[Moxie]

Listen mate, Djokovic is a cut above the whole tour right now, doesn't make Nadal or the rest of the field worthless... I'd bet money that Rafa goes beyond 2 rounds at RG.

Backhanded compliment of the day!