WTF 2013 : London Sidewalk Cafe Discussions

[Riotbeard]

Rosol did nothing special as backed up by Darcis this year. Rafa is garbage at Wimbledon the 1st week it is simple as that. The topspin isn't bouncing at shoulder height and it's hard to retrieve balls all match. Luckily, you naturally play nobodies until at least the 4th round but it hasn't even mattered the last 2 years.

5th set was pretty special, but nadal had to give him 2 first.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Rosol did nothing special

Come on...

 

[Moxie]

Rosol did nothing special

Come on...

Honestly, Darth...I just was on another poster for rewriting the history of that match in the opposite. Rosol played the single best match of his career to date. And Nadal is not "rubbish" the first week of Wimbledon, otherwise he wouldn't have made 5 finals. Obviously Roger has made more, but I don't think I even have to look it up to say you can count on one hand other active players that have made as many. (You might have to go back to Sampras.)

 

[tented]

Roger has to get there first. I don't know the YTD points race but Stan and Gasquet have to be right there with him for 7th and 8th.

But YTD points don't have anything to do with it, right? It's still based on the 52-week cycle.

This is from the ATP Rulebook:

"A. Competition Format

The tournament shall be a singles round robin format with eight (8) players. There shall be two (2) groups of four (4) players each with eight (8) seeds to be determined by the Emirates ATP Rankings on the Monday after the last ATP World Tour tournament of the calendar year. All matches shall be the best of three (3) tie-break sets, including the final. The round robin shall determine the four (4) players for the semifinals with the format thereafter being a single elimination competition.

B. Entries

1) Selection List. The selection list for the event shall be:

a) The top seven (7) players in the Emirates ATP Rankings as of the Monday after the last ATP World Tour tournament of the calendar year; followed by

b) Up to two (2) Grand Slam winners of that year, in order of their positions, positioned between eight (8) and twenty (20) in the Emirates ATP Rankings as of that Monday; followed by

c) Players positioned eight (8) and below in the Emirates ATP Rankings as of that Monday."

 

[DarthFed]

Roger has to get there first. I don't know the YTD points race but Stan and Gasquet have to be right there with him for 7th and 8th.

But YTD points don't have anything to do with it, right? It's still based on the 52-week cycle.

This is from the ATP Rulebook:

"A. Competition Format

The tournament shall be a singles round robin format with eight (8) players. There shall be two (2) groups of four (4) players each with eight (8) seeds to be determined by the Emirates ATP Rankings on the Monday after the last ATP World Tour tournament of the calendar year. All matches shall be the best of three (3) tie-break sets, including the final. The round robin shall determine the four (4) players for the semifinals with the format thereafter being a single elimination competition.

B. Entries

1) Selection List. The selection list for the event shall be:

a) The top seven (7) players in the Emirates ATP Rankings as of the Monday after the last ATP World Tour tournament of the calendar year; followed by

b) Up to two (2) Grand Slam winners of that year, in order of their positions, positioned between eight (8) and twenty (20) in the Emirates ATP Rankings as of that Monday; followed by

c) Players positioned eight (8) and below in the Emirates ATP Rankings as of that Monday."

I would think the YEC points from last year are removed before they have the 8 players selected. Roger's points for the final last year would not count in his ranking before the tournament starts.

 

[DarthFed]

Rosol did nothing special

Come on...

Honestly, Darth...I just was on another poster for rewriting the history of that match in the opposite. Rosol played the single best match of his career to date. And Nadal is not "rubbish" the first week of Wimbledon, otherwise he wouldn't have made 5 finals. Obviously Roger has made more, but I don't think I even have to look it up to say you can count on one hand other active players that have made as many. (You might have to go back to Sampras.)

The point is that with the exception of 2008 and 2011 Rafa has always been pushed to the max or beaten in the 1st week of Wimbledon. And since we are talking 1st week this indicates that these are not great players giving him a major challenge. It is hard to label it a special effort when everyone and their grandpa is taking him to 5, no?

 

[DarthFed]

Rosol did nothing special as backed up by Darcis this year. Rafa is garbage at Wimbledon the 1st week it is simple as that. The topspin isn't bouncing at shoulder height and it's hard to retrieve balls all match. Luckily, you naturally play nobodies until at least the 4th round but it hasn't even mattered the last 2 years.

5th set was pretty special, but nadal had to give him 2 first.

5th set was, no doubt about that.

 

[Moxie]

^ Actually, the way I'm reading that is that the players ARE selected by calendar year points; only that their ranking for the YEC will be determined by the ATP (i.e., 52-week cycle) rankings. Or am I wrong? There is nothing I find more obtuse than the way the determine the field for the YEC. uzzled

 

[tented]

Roger has to get there first. I don't know the YTD points race but Stan and Gasquet have to be right there with him for 7th and 8th.

But YTD points don't have anything to do with it, right? It's still based on the 52-week cycle.

This is from the ATP Rulebook:

"A. Competition Format

The tournament shall be a singles round robin format with eight (8) players. There shall be two (2) groups of four (4) players each with eight (8) seeds to be determined by the Emirates ATP Rankings on the Monday after the last ATP World Tour tournament of the calendar year. All matches shall be the best of three (3) tie-break sets, including the final. The round robin shall determine the four (4) players for the semifinals with the format thereafter being a single elimination competition.

B. Entries

1) Selection List. The selection list for the event shall be:

a) The top seven (7) players in the Emirates ATP Rankings as of the Monday after the last ATP World Tour tournament of the calendar year; followed by

b) Up to two (2) Grand Slam winners of that year, in order of their positions, positioned between eight (8) and twenty (20) in the Emirates ATP Rankings as of that Monday; followed by

c) Players positioned eight (8) and below in the Emirates ATP Rankings as of that Monday."

I would think the YEC points from last year are removed before they have the 8 players selected. Roger's points for the final last year would not count in his ranking before the tournament starts.

Yes, you're right. I found that later on in the Rulebook:

"The Emirates ATP Rankings or Emirates ATP Doubles Rankings period is the immediate past 52 weeks, except for:
* Barclays ATP World Tour Finals, singles and doubles, which is dropped on the Monday following the last ATP World Tour event of the following year."

Between now and London, Roger is defending 560 points:
Shanghai - 260
Basel - 300

So he has the chance to add points in both places. Also, he didn't go to Paris, so he can gain points there, too. That will help because he'll lose his WTF points (800) on the Monday after Paris (the final regular tournament of the year).

It's tricky to say, then, exactly what will happen with Federer, but based on the current rankings, I think he'll be safe, even after dropping the 800:

1 Djokovic, Novak (SRB) 10,980
2 Nadal, Rafael (ESP) 10,860
3 Murray, Andy (GBR) 7,060
4 Ferrer, David (ESP) 6,850
5 Berdych, Tomas (CZE) 4,535
6 Federer, Roger (SUI) 4,515
7 Del Potro, Juan Martin (ARG) 4,425
8 Tsonga, Jo-Wilfried (FRA) 3,425
9 Gasquet, Richard (FRA) 3,165
10 Wawrinka, Stanislas (SUI) 3,150
11 Raonic, Milos (CAN) 2,555
12 Nishikori, Kei (JPN) 2,325

 

[tented]

^ Although it does look more grim when looking at the Race to London:

1 Nadal, Rafael (ESP) 11,010
2 Djokovic, Novak (SRB) 7,970
3 Murray, Andy (GBR) 5,790
4 Ferrer, David (ESP) 4,900
5 Berdych, Tomas (CZE) 3,405
6 Del Potro, Juan Martin (ARG) 3,365
7 Federer, Roger (SUI) 3,055
8 Wawrinka, Stanislas (SUI) 2,925
9 Gasquet, Richard (FRA) 2,765
10 Tsonga, Jo-Wilfried (FRA) 2,455
11 Raonic, Milos (CAN) 2,105
12 Haas, Tommy (GER) 2,085

 

[fedfan]

I haven't skimmed the responses and I apologize if this was already mentioned. This is really the only hole in Nadal's already sterling resume. Yes, this is his least favorite surface and he's typically hurting at year's end, but if there's a year for him to win it...it's this year.

 

[DarthFed]

^ Although it does look more grim when looking at the Race to London:

1 Nadal, Rafael (ESP) 11,010
2 Djokovic, Novak (SRB) 7,970
3 Murray, Andy (GBR) 5,790
4 Ferrer, David (ESP) 4,900
5 Berdych, Tomas (CZE) 3,405
6 Del Potro, Juan Martin (ARG) 3,365
7 Federer, Roger (SUI) 3,055
8 Wawrinka, Stanislas (SUI) 2,925
9 Gasquet, Richard (FRA) 2,765
10 Tsonga, Jo-Wilfried (FRA) 2,455
11 Raonic, Milos (CAN) 2,105
12 Haas, Tommy (GER) 2,085

Yes, YTD points are really the only thing that matters. Stan is right on Roger's back but there is about 300 points between Roger and Gasquet.

 

[Moxie]

I haven't skimmed the responses and I apologize if this was already mentioned. This is really the only hole in Nadal's already sterling resume. Yes, this is his least favorite surface and he's typically hurting at year's end, but if there's a year for him to win it...it's this year.

I agree, and only I have said this could be his year. If he's ever going to, it might be this year, on sheer cussedness.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

jerzy janowicz could have an outside chance of qualifying also..but he prob need to win or reach final of a masters and win a atp500event..

its something to consider that seemingly looks unlikely just now..but he pulled out of the davis cup with a back prob than he had in uso. so maybe he wont even play in October :huh:

 

[tented]

^ Actually, the way I'm reading that is that the players ARE selected by calendar year points; only that their ranking for the YEC will be determined by the ATP (i.e., 52-week cycle) rankings. Or am I wrong? There is nothing I find more obtuse than the way the determine the field for the YEC. uzzled

The tricky part is that it's both the calendar year points and the 52-week cycle, because they're one and the same for this.

Because the WTF is the final event of the year (therefore there's nothing to defend between it and December 31st), the 52-week cycle winds up only containing points from tournaments played in the calendar year -- the only time period in which there were tournaments which could be played.

 

[masterclass]

Roger didn't schedule the WTF this year as he had in recent years. I don't think he expected to play at the WTF from the start of the year due to his plans. He has the all time title record at the YEC (Master's Cup, WTF) with 6 (a record 5 times undefeated). How much more does he need to do there? Stan and Richard are close enough to easily pass Federer this year and qualify. I'm sure he would be happy for Stan to qualify.

He has always been very smart with his scheduling and has said that he thinks years in advance when making his schedule. Let's put it this way. He has an excellent chance to gain points next year...

Respectfully,
masterclass

 

[DarthFed]

Roger didn't schedule the WTF this year as he had in recent years. I don't think he expected to play at the WTF from the start of the year due to his plans. He has the all time title record at the YEC (Master's Cup, WTF) with 6 (a record 5 times undefeated). How much more does he need to do there? Stan and Richard are close enough to easily pass Federer this year and qualify. I'm sure he would be happy for Stan to qualify.

He has always been very smart with his scheduling and has said that he thinks years in advance when making his schedule. Let's put it this way. He has an excellent chance to gain points next year...

Respectfully,
masterclass

There's no way Roger didn't plan on playing YEC at the start of the year and assuming he doesn't ditch the rest of the year (which he should IMO) he will be gunning to qualify for YEC. What hasn't Roger done at YEC? He hasn't won it 7 times, that's the 'tude he needs. Moreover a very good finish to the year gives him a chance to get back to #4 before Wimbledon next year. That's the only positive I see to him playing out this season, there are more negatives. And the likelihood is that he will continue to suck the rest of the year, I see no reason to think otherwise. He needs a long break.

 

[Front242]

jerzy janowicz could have an outside chance of qualifying also..but he prob need to win or reach final of a masters and win a atp500event..

its something to consider that seemingly looks unlikely just now..but he pulled out of the davis cup with a back prob than he had in uso. so maybe he wont even play in October :huh:

Nah. He has no chance imo 'cos he's defending final points from the Paris masters and it's hard to see him defending those in all honesty. Maybe next year. If he keeps improving he'll definitely qualify sooner or later. Really needs to vary his serving though (more body serves for one thing) and cut down a bit on the dropshots. They were brilliantly disguised at Paris last year but now everyone is familiar with his game and the element of surprise is gone.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

jerzy janowicz could have an outside chance of qualifying also..but he prob need to win or reach final of a masters and win a atp500event..

its something to consider that seemingly looks unlikely just now..but he pulled out of the davis cup with a back prob than he had in uso. so maybe he wont even play in October :huh:

Nah. He has no chance imo 'cos he's defending final points from the Paris masters and it's hard to see him defending those in all honesty. Maybe next year. If he keeps improving he'll definitely qualify sooner or later. Really needs to vary his serving though (more body serves for one thing) and cut down a bit on the dropshots. They were brilliantly disguised at Paris last year but now everyone is familiar with his game and the element of surprise is gone.

eh :huh: the 600 rank pts he got in paris last year don't count because they were..umm last year.

anyway ive changed my mind..jj is further adrift than I thought..not impossible but v unlikely.

 

[Front242]

jerzy janowicz could have an outside chance of qualifying also..but he prob need to win or reach final of a masters and win a atp500event..

its something to consider that seemingly looks unlikely just now..but he pulled out of the davis cup with a back prob than he had in uso. so maybe he wont even play in October :huh:

Nah. He has no chance imo 'cos he's defending final points from the Paris masters and it's hard to see him defending those in all honesty. Maybe next year. If he keeps improving he'll definitely qualify sooner or later. Really needs to vary his serving though (more body serves for one thing) and cut down a bit on the dropshots. They were brilliantly disguised at Paris last year but now everyone is familiar with his game and the element of surprise is gone.

eh :huh: the 600 rank pts he got in paris last year don't count because they were..umm last year.

anyway ive changed my mind..jj is further adrift than I thought..not impossible but v unlikely.

Yeah but those ranking points will come off before the Paris masters so essentially he has to reach the final again to maintain his current points, otherwise he's got 600 less. Likewise Ferrer is unlikely to defend there imo so he'll lose a good few points too from winning it last year.